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<ino>
hi guys! :) how do I get the app-id of an app? (I need the app id to set it to float in configuration file). thank you!
<ino>
especially, I m interested in the firefox notifications & sharing indicators, they take half of the screen after popping up :)
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<ino>
oh, also I forgot another thing :) is there any way for river to specify the size of windows that will be launched as floating by default? thanks!
<pkap73>
It's also in the AUR, in case you use Arch Linux.
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<pkap73>
But for the firefox sharing indicator you need to use title: `riverctl float-filter-add title "Firefox — Sharing Indicator"`
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<ino>
pkap thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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<ino>
:))))))
<pkap>
Welcome ino :)
<ino>
haha. it was boinking me since the very first day. now thanks to you I will get a solution :)
<pkap>
Well thanks to guys who made this feature, this was added to river just recently :)
<pkap>
But i found it annoying too
<ino>
yes. leon plickat is a pioneer =D and thanks to everyone else for whom i can use river for free of cost :))) river is amazing.
<pkap>
Yeah it really is a great project. I use it exclusively now
<ino>
libera.chat has added a new feature, now I can see who else is typing!
<pkap>
Wayland has come a long way now and everything works. This wasn't the case maybe a year ago or so.
<pkap>
And it's great that we hava river as a alternative to sway on wayland.
<ino>
hmmm. before there was only weston and people kept looking at the weston-terminal and thought "this is the future" and felt heartbroke. lol
<ino>
at first, I too was blown away by sway. but manual tiling was a show-stopper.
<pkap>
Yes it is. Sway is also geared more to beginners as river, IMO. Just like i3 in the Xorg world.
<pkap>
I used tiling window managers on Xorg for a long time, but to be honest, I was confused at first by the concept of river having a separate program for the layouts.
<ino>
haha. what wm did you use before river and sway? I used xmonad. but haskell was very hard. then tried dwm....and...oh gosh. patches after patches..... then I tried awesome and stayed there, it was bit easier than the other two :)
<ino>
river has got all the goodness of dwm, and the ease of configuration of i3.
<ino>
and, the extensibility of xmonad.
<pkap>
I used qtile for maybe two years. Before that i3 for some time. I tried dwm in between but I got tired of the patching pretty fast.
<ino>
by the way, do you watch distrotube? :) i find his clips very funny at times. they almost always make me giggle.
<pkap>
The first WM I tried was awesomeWM, but at the time I was confused and overwhelmed and went back to Ubuntu Unity, then when Ubuntu ended Unity I started using i3.
<pkap>
I know this youtube channel and watched some Videos but I am not following.
<pkap>
I don't really follow anybody on youtube, I just go there for specific information. I don't even have a google account :D
<ino>
my journey started with linux mint. whenever I see someone usiing mint desktop gives me nostalgia. about the distrotube, if you feel off some times watch his "chat with patrons" series. its basically a show where he talks to his patrons and those people talk about linux like they wrote the kernel yesterday. lolz. and dt can't stop them becuase if
<ino>
he stops their lies they will not be giving money anymore. haha
<ino>
sorry for discussing offtopic here! ;(
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<Guest6220>
Hi there. Curios what distro you using for minimal Wayland environment with river?
<pipeweed[m]>
arch
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<ino>
pacman and aur is game changer for people like me :) so I tend to use arch with wms.
<Guest6220>
Most used distros here: Arch and Voidlinux, as I understand so far
<Guest6220>
any paranoid infosec fans here? Who uses hardened kernels and guides:D
<ino>
you are right! isaac uses void. there is a man here who even goes down to alpine :)
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<Guest6220>
nice, planned to test it at some point
<Guest6220>
Alpine
<Guest6220>
Looks attractive - musl, simplicity
<ino>
yup! you might as well try kiss linux. it's more exotic. or stali linux, which ships statically linked binaries, if i understand correctly.
<Guest6220>
trying to setup KVM virtualization with void and river guest on Kicksecure host, but struggling with graphics and dual screen support still
<Guest6220>
Sadly I can't go with exotic distros on metal, cause need software which is not OSS on my job
<Guest6220>
kiss is too exotic ;D
<leon-p>
last I looked at it, kiss did not support init ram disks, meaning full disk encryption would not be possible. That is a pretty massive no-go in my book.
<Guest6220>
and I'd like to get xmonad-like way of handling workspaces
<Guest6220>
one set of tags for all screens
<ino>
hmm that's a problem. also, you can try s6 with artix. their support is very good, they ship s6 service files with most packages. you will love s6. its so modular and fast.
<ino>
leon-p your lswt is a masterpiece!
<ino>
thanks from my heart :))))
<Guest6220>
can we focus specific windows from river?
<Guest6220>
that would be nice use for lswt
<ino>
oh you mean, focus on multiple tags at same time?
<Guest6220>
no, I mean ability to switch to any tag from current viewport
<bfiedler>
not yet, but this is planned (TM)
<Guest6220>
awesome!
<ino>
hi do any of you use clion from jetbrains :)
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<leon-p>
just has my first river crash in ages :D
<leon-p>
no idea what caused it, middle clicked a tab in firefox to kill it, then output froze, the disk-activity light and fan went crazy for a few seconds and then back to TTY
<leon-p>
coredumptctl says river received SIGABRT, weird
<ifreund>
did you manage to get a backtrace from the coredump?
<ifreund>
SIGABRT likely means an assertion failure
<leon-p>
no useable trace, I build river in release fast mode, so no debug symbols
<leon-p>
I'll poke around with gdb for a bit, maybe I'll find something
<leon-p>
wait, actually I think I /do/ have debug symbols, I was looking at the stacktrace not the backtrace earlier
<ifreund>
and you're running a recent commit I assume?
<ifreund>
s/running/were runnning/
<leon-p>
no quite, I am on e59c2a73d72853cb54f55eecc446f337c94cda24
<ifreund>
well, I haven't touched subsurfaces or xdg toplevel destruction since then so it probably doesn't matter
<ifreund>
I thought I got things right in 863f8156f7660c47fbc612a1c24836aa7e8fd9c4 but maybe not
<ifreund>
leon-p: I fixed something that may have been responsible, but I can't reproduce so yeah...
<leon-p>
I have no idea how to reprosuce either. I just closed a tab in firefox, which I do multiple times a day without crashing...
<ifreund>
yeah, almost certainly a race condition
<ifreund>
the commit I pushed certainly fixes a bug, and it could be the same bug that caused your crash
<leon-p>
hmm... I wonder. The popup showing the full title of a tab when hovering over it might be a subsurface. Perhaps if you click at the exact right time it creates that condition.
<ifreund>
pretty sure that's an xdg popup tbh
<leon-p>
make sense
<leon-p>
but I think firefox uses a subsurface to display the sites content over the GTK surface, maybe that one messed up
<ifreund>
yeah, firefox uses plenty of subsurfaces
<ifreund>
1. just resize the fullscreen view properly and fix the bug
<ifreund>
2. stop allowing people to send fullscreen views between outputs (and maybe tags)
<bfiedler>
I strongly prefer 1.
<ifreund>
ending up with multiple fullscreen views on the same tag can be confusing
<ifreund>
but I argree that it's a useful feature
<novakane>
yeah I guess 2 would make some people annoyed
<leon-p>
If we think of fullscreen as just another state of views, then I think it makes sense to allow moving fullscreened views. However, I think if a fullscreened view is moved to a tag that already has a fullscreen view, it should leave fullscreen.
<novakane>
I agree, this make the more sense to me too
<ifreund>
I think I'll just resize the fullscreen views for now and fix the bug
<ifreund>
I found another bug with regards to focus if you end up with multiple fullscreen views on the same output, so I'll either fix that by forbidding that situation or otherwise
<ifreund>
I wish I had made the output a view is on double buffered state from the beginning
<ifreund>
that's too invasive of a change to make right now though
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<msiedlaczekelshi>
hey I was wondering: is there some way to use tmux (or similar program) for session management but still use river for window management? as in, somehow have two or more windows linked in a single session? my use case is that I have multiple projects going on most of the time, and so far I've been using tmux sessions to jump between them. but it's a bit annoying when it comes to window management, it doesn't work well if I want to
<msiedlaczekelshi>
display more windows from other tags, etc... anyone has suggestions for good workflows for that?
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<bfiedler>
msiedlaczekelshi: If you already have tmux then you attach to the same session in both terminals, no?
<msiedlaczekelshi>
bfiedler: well, then it will mirror the same thing on both terminals
<msiedlaczekelshi>
i'd have to have a session per windows
<dagle>
Some editors also allow server mode, in which case you could also let the editor handle it instead.
<msiedlaczekelshi>
not all windows are necessarily in-editor. usually the baseline is nvim+terminal for running commands + some other stuff depending on a session
<msiedlaczekelshi>
the best thing I've come up so far, which doesn't support restoring sessions but does basically what I want, is to have another level of tags or just some additional tags, such that each project has its own tag
<bfiedler>
You can use focus-previous-tags for a two-project setup
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<leon-p>
msiedlaczekelshi: you could also switch from tmux to GNU screen, which does support attaching multiple clients to the same server with all clients displaying different things AFAIK
<ifreund>
or just switch to kakoune which has a nice client/server model and removes the need for an additional tmux/screen layer
<msiedlaczekelshi>
thanks for suggestions. right now I'm testing a setup with additional qwert... tags dedicated to my work sessions, I'll see how this works out
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<msiedlaczekelshi>
ifreund: say I do, can I also make a terminal window part of this setup? I usually have at least one tmux window that is just plain terminal
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<ifreund>
kakoune runs the editor as a server and you can open as many separate TUI clients in terminals as you like
<ifreund>
to run terminal commands you can either open a separate terminal in river or temporarily suspend one of your kakoune clients withe ctrl-Z
<ifreund>
that all make sense?
<novakane>
you could open all instances of kakoune for a project in like tags 2 and 3 and a terminal in tag 3 for example
<msiedlaczekelshi>
I feel like a tag per project is exactly what I'm looking for. if only I could also somehow make it tie in a session that could be killed and opened again...
<msiedlaczekelshi>
but I'm not even totally sure this is needed, testing the tags thing now...
<msiedlaczekelshi>
not sure yet, I need to read about the client/server model in kakoune, I'll look into it and see if it makes sense
<msiedlaczekelshi>
thanks for the suggestion either way
<msiedlaczekelshi>
hm, I feel like it's kind of an opposite of what I want, I might have been unclear in explaining
<novakane>
well neovim has neovim-remote too, not as good as kakune though
<msiedlaczekelshi>
what I want is to have multiple windows tied into a session -- which is basically what a tag is
<msiedlaczekelshi>
only a tag doesn't let me detach/attach
<ifreund>
what do you mean by detach/attach in this context? wouldn't that just be displaying the tag/not displaying the tag?
<leon-p>
ifreund: perhaps they want a consistent session between logins? Like work on something, exit river, later start river again and have all windows re-appear all with their last-seen state.
<ifreund>
yeah we don't have anything like that yet
<ifreund>
if ever
<leon-p>
it's not totally impossible. You could probably modify foot-server to keep all terminal connections open even when the view is closed and then later spawn new views for them.
<leon-p>
that would also prevent you from losing all terms when the compositor crashes
<ifreund>
there's been discussion on this on wayland-devel recently, and there was an XDC talk on it
<ifreund>
it required some pretty invasive libwayland changes though
<ifreund>
and of course support from clients
<leon-p>
libwayland changes? I see nothing preventing a client currently from surviving a compositor crash.
<leon-p>
oh, actually I do
<leon-p>
compositor not responding was fatal, wasn't it?
<ifreund>
leon-p: wayland object IDs won't match up unless you're very lucky
<leon-p>
yeah, but that is only a problem if you expect a complete restore of the pre-crash state. If all you want is to have your views open again, it should not matter
<leon-p>
hmm... skimming through the mail I think they might be over-complicating it a bit. Instead of re-using objects and connection, my idea was to just have a new connection and build a new Wayland state from scratch.
<leon-p>
it's the non-Wayland state that should be kept, the Wayland state is cheap to re-build
<ifreund>
I think the motivation is to minimize client changes
<ifreund>
I think the wayland state and non-wayland state is highly coupled in most clients
<leon-p>
hmm... TBH I think I'd consider that a design bug in the clients. I can see some things depending on surface sizes, but other than that nothing should really be tightly coupled with the wayland state.
<leon-p>
anyway, this isn't actually solving the session problem, since it would not survive a reboot as terminal connectiong are involved. You will always have to live with terminal sessions being lost between bootups, that just UNIX.
<msiedlaczekelshi>
leon-p: ifreund yeah, basically at this point detaching/attaching would be a way to bring it back when there's some or something idk... but I agree, showing/hiding tag would do the work of attaching/detaching in context of switching between poject
<leon-p>
msiedlaczekelshi: toggling tags solves the problem of bringing up your sessions when the compositor is already running and all of them have been brought up.
<leon-p>
The problem is bringing them up and potentially saving state at the end of a session.
<leon-p>
but that is a client issue. THe compositor is not really involved with that.
<msiedlaczekelshi>
leon-p: yep
<leon-p>
I suggest for now ignoring the issue of saving state. Maybe just use a shell script to bring up the windows you commonly need for a project.
<msiedlaczekelshi>
the disadvantage of using tags as opposed to say tmux sessions is also having so many tags can get hairy
<msiedlaczekelshi>
anyway, I'll experiment with it
<leon-p>
"hairy"? I don't follow…
<msiedlaczekelshi>
it's just a lot to handle to me
<leon-p>
ah, I see.
<msiedlaczekelshi>
starts being difficult to find sessions or even assign keys
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<leon-p>
so, how many projects do you have open simultaneously? And how many tags have you assigned keys to?
<msiedlaczekelshi>
sometimes I develop on 6 or 7 different repos throughout one day
<msiedlaczekelshi>
normally, I got 9 tags
<msiedlaczekelshi>
seeing as I have usually some other tags, like browser, slack, or music, etc, it's pushing it
<leon-p>
well since you don't mind writing some code, you could create a tag selector menu thing. Basically a program that allows you to save tag configs, give them names and later focus them based on the name.
<msiedlaczekelshi>
but I'll give it a go, and see if I can get by without tmux
<msiedlaczekelshi>
leon-p: that's quite an interesting idea, I might consider trying it out
<leon-p>
yeah, what you are running into here is the good old UNIX problem: a bunch of neat tools that are designed to interoperate, but the overall experience is extremely poorly integrated. Not that other OSs do it any better, but it's still maddening.
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<msiedlaczekelshi>
it could be that I'm just missing some obvious way to solve this problem, idk
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<ifreund>
my way is to not bother saving "sessions" I don't intend to return to in the next hour or so on a tag
<ifreund>
I just tear them down and build them back as needed
<ifreund>
which really doesn't take much time
<leon-p>
I wouldn't save sessions either, I prefer starting clean every time. But I think it should be possible.
<novakane>
yeah I feel like with tags instead of workspaces you already have a lot to handle some nice setup
<msiedlaczekelshi>
possibly, maybe I just need to let go of tmux for a while to develop some good practice around it
<novakane>
never feel the need for a multiplexer with a tiling WM personally
<novakane>
always feel like it's too much hassle to manage keybind problem between WM/multiplexer/editor
<snakedye>
Mostly the session restoring. I imagine you can mitigate this with a lot of scripting but it doesn't feel quite right
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<msiedlaczekelshi>
ok, I hacked a solution xD will probably refine it, but basically, I have a tmux session per terminal window, and within each session I have a list of project-related windows; then I have a binding that runs a script that opens bemenu with all windows available in any active tmux sessions, select one, and it switches any active session that has this window to it
<msiedlaczekelshi>
a little hacky but could work out