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<novakane>
leon-p: if you read the log, just know that the river-tag-overlay protocol version problem was my fault, I forgot to change the protocol version in river global bind...
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<ino>
hi! i want to change my init system as others were suggesting me systemd is not good for security reasons. is river dependent on systemd? if i change to other init will river function properly? thanks! :)
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<ino56>
hi ifreund! pardon me if i annoyed you by pinging. i had a question. is river dependent upon systemd? (or any functionality of it) :)
<Nulo>
ino56: river is not dependant in systemd. It requires something that manages "seats", which systemd's "logind" does. However, there's also elogind (which is systemd's logind extracted from systemd) and seatd which work alright.
<ino56>
thanks so much Nulo! i was planning to change my init system, and this information was very important to me! :)))
<Nulo>
(By this I mean: yes, systemd is trash security-wise, but there are other, more urgent issues in Linux "desktop" environments that you should worry about)
<Nulo>
(By this I mean: yes, systemd is trash security-wise, but there are other, more urgent issues in Linux "desktop" environments that you should worry about instead)
<ino56>
thanks nulo! i am reading the page right now.
<ifreund>
ino56: I and several others here run void linux, which uses runit instead of systemd
<ifreund>
I also use seatd instead of elogind
<Nulo>
Alpine here o/
<Nulo>
Firefox randomly started using a bunch on CPU in a page and that made river itself consume quite a bit, is that normal?
<ino56>
the article says "linux kernel itself is extremely lacking in security" -_- this is the thing i always heard about msdos and macintosh X-P
<ino56>
nulo you run alpine linux? how much software does it have in ints repo?
<Nulo>
ino56: Well, msdos sure, but not modern Windows and MacOS
<ifreund>
Nulo: If firefox is throwing a lot of requests at river, it makes sense that river would use more CPU
<Nulo>
It has quite a bit of software, barely lacked any. However, it's important to use edge as a lot of software just isn't available on stable releases
<Nulo>
ifreund: Of course, but it is running on Xwayland. I assume it's just a Firefox bug, it shouldn't be using CPU in the first place.
* Nulo
enabled Reader Mode
<ino56>
i will try alpine linux. sounds very adventureous.
<Nulo>
Alternatively, stop distrohopping :P
<Nulo>
I went with Alpine as I found it pretty simple and already had a tiny bit of experience with it. Highly recommend Void for "desktop" usage
<Nulo>
Honestly, Void is much more stable than Arch in my experience.
<ifreund>
^
<ifreund>
Nulo: why run firefox through xwayland? it's native wayland support has been pretty solid for a while in my experience
<Nulo>
ifreund: Because it crashed frequently for me :P
<Nulo>
I was using it back on other hardware but here it's pretty unstable for whatever reason
<ifreund>
maybe musl related? I don't know how much alpine needs to patch FF
<ifreund>
ah you're not on x86_64?
<Nulo>
Also, render glitched
<Nulo>
Also, render glitches
<Nulo>
I am on x86_64 :P
<ino56>
will void/alpine be better than arch or artix? (because artix also run other init system than systemd) sorry for asking lot of suggestion i am still noob in linux world.
<ino56>
i mean, faster boot time, more responsiveness, less ram use and less cpu usage? :)
<Nulo>
That depends on the software you use, distro usually doesn't matter *that* much
<Nulo>
Faster boot time, I guess Void, because runit runs init things in parallel
<ino56>
what init does alpine use?
<Nulo>
It really depends on your hardware and software you use apart from that
<Nulo>
OpenRC
<Nulo>
It does support parallel init but I believe it's buggy
<ino56>
and also, what is your opinion on artix linux. is it any good?
<Nulo>
Apparently Alpine might change init systems soon, hopefully
<Nulo>
When people hear about a new product they often ask if it is any good. A Hacker News user once wrote: "Starting immediately, all raganwald projects will have a 'Is it any good?' section in the readme, and the answer shall be 'yes'." We were inspired and added that section to the GitLab readme.
<Nulo>
But, to answer with my opinion: I've never used Artix.
<ifreund>
RE: alpine changing init, skarnet said that that thing might be ready late this year/early next year
<ifreund>
I'm pretty exicited about it, will definitely give alpine a try then
<ifreund>
I can't stand openrc
<ino56>
oww haha. you are funny nulo. guess what? i am going for void next maybe. (because runit)
<ifreund>
(though it's better than systemd)
<Nulo>
Eh, I thought it would be really terrible but it's not that bad. Although I prefer runit.
<Nulo>
I only made a very basic init script though
<Nulo>
It's a bit annoying but it works fine
<ino56>
i was expecting that both of you was running arch linux. but turns out its not! haha
<Nulo>
At the end of the day it doesn't matter that much for me. I like Alpine because of how small it is; as in, I can understand it pretty well
<ifreund>
Nulo: that firefox screencap is aweful, waht graphics drivers are you on?
<Nulo>
ino56: We have ascended beyond mere mortals
<ino56>
my words
<ifreund>
eh, I find void way easier to use than arch
<Nulo>
ifreund: This is a regular Thinkpad X230 :P
<Nulo>
^^^^^
<Nulo>
Arch breaks itself
<Nulo>
It's very annoying
<ifreund>
Nulo: weird, haven't heard of anyone experiencing anything like that on a thinkpad before
<Nulo>
It could be an issue with the (outdated) coreboot that I'm running, but I doubt it
<Nulo>
Meh, XWayland works fine, so that's that
<Nulo>
WebRender is running on software, dunno why
<ino56>
when i installed river-git from AUR it was running on Xwayland. but when i built from source it started running on native wayland.
<Nulo>
What do you mean it was running on Xwayland?
<ino56>
i started htop it was written Xwayland before river. then i deleted river-git, built from source, then ran again. i opened htop, the Xwayland mark was gone, it was showing 'river' only.
<ifreund>
ino56: it sounds like you aren't enabling xwayland support when building from source
<ino56>
yes! is it good or bad?
<Nulo>
river isn't running "on Xwayland", it's running with Xwayland enabled
<ifreund>
also river doesn't run inside xwayland, xwayland runs as a separate process alongside river to enable running x11 clients inside river
<ifreund>
whether it is good or bad depends on what you want
<Nulo>
You probably want it enabled :P
<ino56>
owwww haha. my bad. i thought it was running under xwayland. okay then i will build again and enable the feature.
<Nulo>
River suffers (50% CPU) a lot with WebRender + Wayland Firefox
<Nulo>
(Even though nothing is happening on Firefox)
<ino56>
when i run htop i see nothing but firefox =$
<ino56>
and, alacritty
<Nulo>
Ah, it only happens on a specific tab. Probably not a river issue. Moving on...
<ino56>
do you guys watch dt's video on linux
<ifreund>
nope
<ino56>
he is very emotional and passionate talking about free and open source softwares.
<ino56>
but it is always hard to fully focus on open source for a developer because often times no one is funding even very good projects.
<Nulo>
Ugh dt
<ino56>
dt is not bald :v
<Nulo>
dt is so annoying. He's like, a distrohopping influencer
<Nulo>
The whole "Linux" or "Free Software" YouTube scene is disgusting
<Nulo>
There's this guy whose name I don't remember which publicly admits to being a neonazi
<Nulo>
Sorry, is this too off-topic ifreund ?
<ino56>
hahaha. one day he told if you support open source you should also support gun rights :v and the youtuber you was talking about is luke smith. they both are very debated.
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<Nulo>
That. Ironically (?) I think Luke was who got me into Void.
<leon-p>
Nulo: it's an older thinkpad, so it's kinda expected. Coreboot / libreboot interferes with hardware decoding on those I think. I also can't get hardware accel. anything on my librebooted X200, but on the one with prop. BIOS it works fine, despite the chip being fully supported in the kernel
<ino56>
'=D
<Nulo>
Ah shit. I might not even be running a hardware mesa renderer.
<leon-p>
As for the YT "scene", yeah it's pretty annoying how much nazi scum makes Linux videos. And how many people watch them and take their word as gospel. But that is off-topic.
<ino56>
what was you guys first ever linux distro? mine was linux mint.
<leon-p>
Ubuntu 16.04 with Unity. And I loved it :D
<Nulo>
Don't remember, possibly old Debian and Fedora
<ino56>
i knew nothing about tech. i used to hit my laptop when it was running windows and running very slow. i thought hitting would probably fix it. good old days. then i came to know its not problem of hardware inside, it was problem of windows.
<ino56>
i saw couple of youtube videos and made my barely working laptop unbootable trying to dual boot ubuntu with windows.
<Nulo>
Ah, now I'm actually running hardware accelerated. Lol
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<ino56>
hi! i am facing a problem. my firefox is always taking only 1/4 of screen space after launch (it was supposed to take full width and height) i tried to modify the init script and rebooted few times, but nothing is changed that behavior. what could cause such problem? :)
<ino56>
all other applications are taking full width and height, only firefox is not doing that.
<leon-p>
ino56: Firefox tries to remember its last dimensions at startup for whatever unholy reason (on X it also remembers it's last position, overriding the WM). Try resizing the window (i.e. by floating and then unfloating it)
<leon-p>
it's stupid, but with browsers you have to expect the stupid
<ino56>
Thank you leon-p !! i am doing it now.
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<ino56>
it fixed! my firefox is now like before again! thanks again for helping.
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<elshize>
leon-p: I've been wondering why the hell firefox sometimes had size window issues! now I know...
<leon-p>
elshize: back when I was developing a WM for X I wasted an entire week trying to stop firefox from just teleporting itself.
<leon-p>
I did not succeed
<leon-p>
although with Wayland I think it would be esier to stop. Since the firefox view initially has the right size and only later remembers its old size, it is an "unexpected" change in dimensions which can be detected.
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<edrex[m]>
<novakane> "edrex: look at https://git.sr.ht..." <- novakane: the toplevels protocol it doesn't have tags for windows. would be cool if the protocol allowed for that somehow, in a generic enough way it would work for compositors with workspaces or tags
<leon-p>
edrex[m]: I am currently trying to come up with a way to extend foreign-toplevel with river specific data.
<leon-p>
may be a while until I come up with something good, but it's planned
<edrex[m]>
awesome!
<edrex[m]>
i'll look at your python script and see if I can get it working for all 32 tags
<ino>
Hi! has anyone been able to write a script to cycle through tags? :) would be more than greatful if someone shared their script. (if happened to have any).
<edrex[m]>
and reading #394
<edrex[m]>
ino: leon-p made one after your request, but it only works for 8 tags
<ino>
leon-p, i will always remember you and be grateful to you.
<edrex[m]>
i plan to see if I can fix that limitation, but I'm in sway atm and working on other stuff
<leon-p>
edrex[m]: if you can figure out how to make it work, please share. I am very curious what went wrong
<leon-p>
ino: glad I could help
<ino>
leon-p das Vergnügen! but how to integrate your program to the init file? '=D what command should i include? just `exec toggle_tags.py` ?
<leon-p>
ino: yep, that script can just be executed
<ino>
ok i am trying and let you know what happens!
<leon-p>
although make sure you have python-pywayland installed
<ino>
sure!
<leon-p>
*and* have the bindings for the river-status and river-protocol extensions
<leon-p>
for instructions, please see PR #394 on rivers github. should be easiely transferable
<ino>
oh i was just going to ask "but how to have river-status and river-protocol extensions" but now i am looking at #394.
<edrex[m]>
the necessity of carrying the protocol files around is a bit of a papercut
<leon-p>
edrex[m]: in the future when you install river, the protocol XML files should be installed as well
<leon-p>
you also ever need them to generate bindings
<leon-p>
once you have the bindings, you don't need the protocol files anymore. It's just the nature of pywayland that you can not just add the bindings inline in your scripts
<ino>
hi! it seems like i dont have `usr/share/wayland` directory, i only have it in the the repo that i cloned from github. and the binary is in `.local/bin/` . so do i execute this command: `python3 -m pywayland.scanner --with-protocols -i ~/Repos/river/deps/...../wayland.xml` ? :) river-layout-v3.xml`
<ino>
sorry i placed the emoji in wrong position of the sentence
<leon-p>
yeah, just point it at the wayland.xml and the river-layout-v3.xml, wherever they may be on your system
<edrex[m]>
only goes forward, need to add a flag to go backward
<edrex[m]>
thanks for providing a boilerplate, that will get me started scripting things
<edrex[m]>
oh wait, i see that it's only doing the first 8 still
<ino>
hi! it is saying `"pywayland does not have bindings for the river protocols!"` how do i install/add them? :)
<ino>
i successfully generated the layout in `river-layout-v3` before.
<ino>
and this command `python -m pywayland.scanner --with-protocols` was successfully executed too.
<edrex[m]>
ino: it needs river-status. I did `sudo python3 -m pywayland.scanner --with-protocols -i /usr/share/wayland/wayland.xml *.xml` which worked
<edrex[m]>
(from the river/protocol dir)
<ino>
oh thank you! i am trying it now and saying what happens.
<ino>
oh, it didnt work for me. maybe i should have install river systemwide like you guys did so our commands would match then it would be easier to debug.
<ino>
did you install it from AUR? :)
<edrex[m]>
i have river installed to ~/.local , with wlroots installed from Arch package
<ino>
owwww
<edrex[m]>
leon-p: ok, it seems that the occupied_tags bitfield just has the 24 MSBs clipped. so either bindings bug or river bug.
<ino>
in your case, did you create a new file named `river-layout-v3.xml` or used the existing one (that i found in the repo i cloned)
<edrex[m]>
i just cd RIVER_SRC_DIR/protocol and then run the above
<edrex[m]>
i guess it generates some python from the protocol files
<ino>
oh! thanks for sharing this info. i was wondering it.
<edrex[m]>
leon-p: but since river-tag-overlay works for more tags, it must be a bug in the bindings
<ino>
hi, it is showing no more error! what are the control keys for cycling? :)
<ino>
i tried left-right arrow, but that doesnt seem to work haha.
<ino>
or do i have to configure my init file for the controls?
<edrex[m]>
leon-p: nevermind, i hadn't looked at the object creation code
<ino>
i was reading the program but did not find the buttons; so i was thinking if i have to configure them manually in the init.