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<ddevault>
driver loader works :D
<ddevault>
now to write a driver
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<heat>
sup
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<heat>
this is weird, every time I reconnect it says "no ping reply for 3639 seconds"
<heat>
and then DC's me
<FireFly>
what client?
<heat>
hexchat
<FireFly>
hm curious
<heat>
i think shutdown isn't being done cleanly, so then I reconnect and libera still thinks im on the same connection, and times me out?
<FireFly>
that'd be... weird somehow
<FireFly>
I think the ircd would know if there's a fresh connection
<FireFly>
<-- heat (~heat@sortix/contributor/heat) has quit (Remote host closed the connection
<FireFly>
would imply that it's your end/your client closing it, so I wonder if it's hexchat's side that doesn't get a ping reply from the ircd (if the machine is suspended/hibernating)
<FireFly>
but if it's a full shutdown + restart it doesn't really explain it
<heat>
yea it's a shutdown
<FireFly>
weird weird
<sortie>
heat, your client might be expecting the remote to respond to ping, but isn't
<sortie>
The IRC pings can go both ways
<FireFly>
sortie: but why would it time out after ~1h of no response right upon startup/connection?
<FireFly>
feels like some sort of mismatch/some old in-flight ping from before shutdown or something
<clever>
FireFly: ive had similar happen on my old irc network, when the clock changes
<FireFly>
ahh
<clever>
the author of the server, made the mistake of not using a monotonic clock
<clever>
so when the clock skips forwards an hour, every in-flight ping is an hour late
<sortie>
This wouldn't happen if heat used the superior Sortix network stack, time keeping, and irc server
<sortie>
Really curious about the hour timeout though
<sortie>
Do you see a timeout like that in your hexchat config?
<sortie>
Doesn't happen in my hexchat
<heat>
sortie, yes, net_ping_timeout = 60
<heat>
i wonder if this is a weird timezone thing that's happening at early boot here
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<heat>
wait, it should be in seconds, not minutes...
<heat>
confused.jpeg
<zid`>
you're not dicking around with suspend/resume here right?
<heat>
nope
<zid`>
good
<zid`>
people who suspend hw should be fired into the sun
<FireFly>
uh-oh
* FireFly
hides
<zid`>
don't worry, you won't feel it, you'll be asleep
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<FireFly>
do you always shut down laptops?
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<heat>
fwiw my laptop is struggling to get into any sort of non-S0 power state from Linux
<heat>
just dies
<heat>
maaaaaaaaaa, the linux people bungled power management again
<zid`>
I need to find my thermal paste
<zid`>
heat where is it
<heat>
idk ask gog
<zid`>
why, do you think she ate it
<heat>
quite possibly
<heat>
definitely the most likely to eat thermal paste in #osdev
<bnchs>
hi
<heat>
ooh boy another strong contender
<bnchs>
i thought the thermal paste was chocolate
<FireFly>
don't eat thermal paste
<zid`>
but it makes ur insides all shiny :(
<gog>
i didn't know what it was so i ate it
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<Ermine>
gog: may I pet you
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<ChadGPT>
> I hope the core concept is not entirely idiotic. It'd be great
<ChadGPT>
work from others, because due to various "scheduler improvements"
<ChadGPT>
if we could get this in or fold an equivalent concept into ongoing
<ChadGPT>
every time we upgrade the production kernel this problem is getting
<ChadGPT>
worse :(
<ChadGPT>
lmao
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<gog>
Ermine: yes
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<zid`>
Am I weird for thinking that kernels in networking roles should just be built without softirq
<zid`>
and just run the entire interrupt
* Ermine
pets gog
<netbsduser`>
zid`: maybe if it's especially designed for it
<zid`>
linux gets used in basically every router that isn't cisco running vxworks as far as I know
<zid`>
something like a 'profile' in menuconfig might be decent
<zid`>
where you just let kconfig know you're building a router not a desktop :P
<zid`>
and it can pre-tweak some stuff
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<heat>
zid`, i think that the big problem here is that if you get packets in a high enough volume you can essentially stop making progress in other logic and just do 100% CPU on softirqs (in your case, hardirq, whatever)
<zid`>
okay?
<zid`>
I'd consider that a win, 100% load with no wastage :P
<zid`>
if you want some interactivity, send me a packet
<heat>
routers do more things than packet processing
<zid`>
sadly
<heat>
and so do all "kernels in networking roles", whatever that means
<zid`>
sory I will say in portgo next time
<heat>
por favor, não, estou assistindo futebol no momento
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<zid`>
heat: The wikipedia list of 'portuguese people' ends a hundred years ago, rip
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<ChadGPT>
spain > portugal
<GeDaMo>
Nah, Spain's on the right hand side :P
<zid`>
spain > portugal lexographically
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<heat>
zid` my team lost
<heat>
i feel sad
<ChadGPT>
football fetish again?
<zid`>
real team, or imaginary team
<heat>
real
<zid`>
can never be too careful with these leg watchers
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<geist>
heh leg watchers?
<geist>
is that a real term or did you make it up?
<bslsk05>
developer.valvesoftware.com: Counter-Strike: Global Offensive Dedicated Servers - Valve Developer Community
<heat>
step by step guide even
<ChadGPT>
this is what you would do if you had a commuynity on the side
<geist>
the community server is less of a league of players, and more of a chat room that folks join and make acquiantces with
<ChadGPT>
see above
<geist>
yes.. thats precisely what im talking about
<geist>
also note that counter strike was released over 10 years ago
<geist>
ie, no new games do that
<geist>
day of defeat i used to play a bunch that way too
<geist>
probably still around
<ZombieChicken>
Who needs new games?
<geist>
well it's true
<ZombieChicken>
DOS era was all one really needs
<heat>
cs2 is coming out soon and it'll 100% still have dedicated community server support
<geist>
would be nice to have some of the battle royale games with community servers, for example
<geist>
battle royale i find to be fun, toxic matchmaking i do not
<ZombieChicken>
geist: Make one. Mod Xonotic
<ZombieChicken>
I'm sure they'd love that
<ZombieChicken>
and I'm not even joking about that
<heat>
yeah but who plays xonotic
<geist>
i dont even know what that is
<heat>
it explicitly supports FreeBSD
<heat>
that's how you know I'm not touching it
<Ermine>
geist: a Quake clone
<geist>
probably would get sued into the ground to patent infringement
<heat>
if it's not a shit linux port or wine'd into the ground, I don't want it
<heat>
although I usually game on windows because linukz desktop
<geist>
anyway. my point is i liked the old style stuff. i might even fire up day of defeat in a bit, see if it's still alive
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<geist>
also i really dislike counterstrike, i just dont like that game loop. others do, that's fine.
<ChadGPT>
quek 4 life
<geist>
Tribes 2 was the shit... that's been dead for so long
<ChadGPT>
yesterday i youtube suggested to me a live stream of a quake 2 tdm grand final
<ChadGPT>
i was surprised they still have those
<ChadGPT>
more, that they got 2 teams of 4 people each
<ChadGPT>
meaning thre is at least 8 people playing in europe
<ChadGPT>
who knows, maybe this was a farewell party
<heat>
geist, what game loop?
<geist>
the one i dont like
<heat>
yeah but what's the game loop here, wdym
<ZombieChicken>
ChadGPT: You mean 8 people in Europe that thought they were good enough to play on a livestream?
<ZombieChicken>
Probably at least 80 people playing, maybe 800
<ChadGPT>
ZombieChicken: maybe they did not know they were streamed!
<heat>
i don't think it's the engine while (true) {handle_events(); draw();} and I don't know any other game loops
<ChadGPT>
ZombieChicken: where is that stat from
<geist>
well when i say game loop i mean the core game... flowchart. i guess.
<geist>
ie, you get weapons you fight this battle with N people, etc etc
<geist>
that particular combination that CS has i do not enjoy
<ZombieChicken>
buy weapons, play game, switch roles, repeat?
<geist>
sure, but there's smoe details abot it i just dont enjoy
<geist>
that's all. it's okay to have preferences
<heat>
noOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo no preferences
<heat>
u dont agree with me u get deaded
<geist>
haha
<ChadGPT>
there is only 1 true game
<geist>
honestly nowadays i really just dont play shooters that much, i get too stressed out
<ZombieChicken>
huh
<ChadGPT>
oh?
<geist>
just tense, and i already have to deal with neck tension, etc
<ZombieChicken>
ChadGPT: q2servers.com
<ZombieChicken>
I see a server with, supposedly, 16 people in it
<ChadGPT>
i heard of people who get immeidately nervous in multiplayer, regardless of what's happening
<geist>
1 sad person, 15 bots
<geist>
in my case it seems to be generally shooters i just tense up muscle wise, which eventually causes problems after an hour or so
<ChadGPT>
>david 0 40 2 mins
<heat>
battlefield has a strong problem with community servers reporting wrong player counts
<ChadGPT>
>purri 0 26 2 mins
<ChadGPT>
wut
<geist>
enjoy youth, folks
<ChadGPT>
ZombieChicken: purri i was one old fart, surprised he is still playing
<ChadGPT>
geist: youth is wasted on the young!
<sakasama>
I like the campaigns in fps games, but anything pvp is just too toxic imho.
<heat>
i give me youth to ChadGPT
<geist>
sakasama: basically yeah
<geist>
i just dont enjoy toxicity. it's not fun at all to engage in that stuff
<heat>
i'm not really toxic but i'm very competitive and hate losing
<heat>
and this applies to *anything*
<ChadGPT>
you sound toxic
<heat>
i'm not!
<geist>
i can get pretty competitive too. and my general strategy is to avoid competing where i'm going to lose
<ChadGPT>
aight
<geist>
which isn't a great strategy, but also... why i dont play pvp games :)
<sakasama>
heat: That's the source of most toxic behaviour in games though.
<geist>
like, i tend to pick something i can get good at, and stick with it
<ChadGPT>
mate if you win, you win in style
<ChadGPT>
otherwise what's even the point
<ChadGPT>
funny story, i was playin quek once and got rekt by some guy
<ChadGPT>
few weeks later that guy talks how he may as well quit playing since he will never be good
<ZombieChicken>
...someone on there has 402 hours online...
<sakasama>
geist: Matchmaking is supposed to match you against people who you'll lose against half the time though, so unless you abuse the system you'll have the same ratio regardless if it's not broken.
<ZombieChicken>
sakasama: Unless you happen to be improving
<ChadGPT>
that ratio does not help getting sensible games
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<sakasama>
ZombieChicken: True, though that should plateau quickly enough.
<geist>
sakasama: yeah. generally when i was playing DoD i was enjoying more of the crazy mods and whatnot folks were doing on the community servers
<geist>
i played on overwatch for a while when it first game out. wasn't toxic yet
<sakasama>
I haven't even bothered with pvp for at least a decade now, and I usually avoided it before then.
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<sakasama>
I have no idea why I'm still designing this accursed architecture: even if I finish the design I doubt I'll be able to manufacture it.
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<heat>
for fun
<heat>
did SVR4 descendents keep the HAT (hardware address translation) naming?
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<heat>
or did they give up and switch to pmap
<heat>
... or something else entirely
<ChadGPT>
solaris keeps it
<ChadGPT>
or at least did until the great vm rewrite of 2010s
<ChadGPT>
no idea past that
<heat>
it's very amusing how UNIX had this nice abstraction layer for MMU mappings and all that
<heat>
and then linux comes along and does weird page table stuff directly in generic code
<ChadGPT>
linux was not supposed to be portable afair
<ChadGPT>
it was hackjob which took off out of nowhere
<heat>
it was not, but the hackjob got hackier-jobbed over time
<heat>
whereas other areas got abstracted, the page table stuff remained
<heat>
maybe there's good reason for it, given that generally your pmap.c/mmu.cpp/whatever heavily shares code between architectures
<ChadGPT>
there is not
<ChadGPT>
and linux mm people comlain about it
<heat>
do they?
<ChadGPT>
's what i'm told
<ChadGPT>
who would not, apart from the l guy anyway
<heat>
why would you?
<heat>
you implement a bunch of macros in a header and get all existing page table handling for free
<ChadGPT>
right now you have to pretend you are x86
<heat>
yea but in 2023 you usually are, and for softmmu keeping track of PTE mappings in a radix tree is not a bad idea anyway
<heat>
if you really want to, you could make an argument for a pmap-like interface with a generic, common impl for x86-like schemes
<ChadGPT>
in 2023 you really like ARM
<ChadGPT>
in fact recent years is where arm really took off vs x86
<ChadGPT>
and i'm ignoring all the phones out there
<heat>
yeah dude but arm is x86 when it comes to page tables
<ChadGPT>
that similar? /me confesses to be mostly ignornat of that sucker
<heat>
they just have 2 instead of 1, and some odd features
<heat>
yeah x86, arm, armv8+, x86_64, riscv{32,64} all share the general idea of the intel page table format with the radix tree and PTEs and bits (some of them don't have some bits, but it's usually just dirty and accessed there are missing, which are usually better handled in software anyway)
<clever>
for the normal kernel/user modes, arm has 2 base pointers, for the upper and lower half of the virtual addr space
<clever>
to make it easy to swap out the userland tables without touching kernel tables
<clever>
arm hypervisor mode has a single set of tables, which it can optionally apply to "guest physical", giving 2 stages of translation
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<geist>
heat: oh interesting thing i discovered the other day about qemu riscv that might be interesting: it seems to fully emulate A and D bits
<geist>
can't turn it off either. which is kinda a drag. which means it's not possible to implement an accessed fault handler on qemu because it'll never call it
<clever>
software mmu?
<clever>
or software access/dirty?
<clever>
i can see that being a pain
<geist>
software access/dirty
<geist>
virtually all cores i've seen require software to implement it
<geist>
but then qemu just fully emulates it, so you ca't even develop the feature against qemu
<clever>
id say thats a qemu bug, you have no way to emulate and debug the code
<geist>
same thing with handling unaligned accesses. you can't get it to generate an unaligned trap because it emulates it for you
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<kof123>
re: gaming: Ping-Pong Somehow Elicits Macho Posturing - The Onion www.theonion.com › ping-pong-somehow-elicits-macho-posturing 20 years later: 'So, Do You Play?' Asks Girlfriend's Little Brother, Gesturing Grandly Many of my sister’s suitors who passed through this basement have tried their hand. I’ve always found them lacking.
<bslsk05>
www.theonion.com: The Onion | America's Finest News Source.
<clever>
geist: i also thought of something when explaining arm page tables above, if EL2 only has 1 TTBR register, how do you isolate EL2 ram from guest ram? the privledged bit? that normally does kernel vs user?
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<clever>
hmmm, re-reading the arm arm, i see a TTBR1_EL2, and a VTTBR_EL2
<clever>
that can explain things
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<geist>
yeah the V one is only for stage 2 translations. it actually doesn't affect any of the mappings in EL2, it just sets up the S2 translations for when you drop back down to EL1 or 0