klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<Jari--> yo
<Jari--> Windows task manager taking 40% of the CPU quad cores.
<\Test_User> "don't use ms's stuff"
<Jari--> Interrupts, too, etc. overhead. Slowing my AMD to literally unusable.
<Jari--> \Test_User: this is hardware related
<gog> interrupts tend to have a little more overhead on windows than linux yeah
<\Test_User> Jari--: are you running on a 400mhz quadcore cpu then?
<gog> but the question is whether task manager is constantly taking 40% or if you're just seeing it spike to 40% when it refreshes the task list
<gog> by default it'll update once per second and that 40% might be an artifact of the accounting
<gog> take top in linux for example
<gog> you can make it eat cpu time by refreshing it multiple times a second
<gog> and it'll show you that it's taking a lot of CPU time because of the overhead of walking /prof
<gog> proc
<gog> i find it really unlikely that task manager is the cause to any performance problems you're having
<zid> taskmgr uses 1% cpu on my machine, I think it rounds up
<\Test_User> I've seen ms's task manager eat up much more when there's more other load on the system
<gog> that's possible too
<zid> yea higher iowait or whatever
<gog> but it's not likely the underlying cause
<\Test_User> ofc, underlying cause is that underlying system designed by ms :P
<gog> he ynow
<gog> there's a good operating system inside the layers of bloat
<zid> yea the kernel is fairly solid
<gog> remember windows xp
<gog> windows 2000
<zid> it does a lot of stuff, doesn't crash much, etc
<zid> the vfs is just a little slow
<zid> I just wish they wouldn't ship it with 20GB of new themeing each year
<gog> they're starting to put ads in the start screen
<gog> idk if this is going to become a permanent feature
<zid> not in w7 yet they haven't, phew, I'm safe
<gog> yeh in 11
<gog> windows 7 is decent
<gog> windows 8.1 was fine if you used a start menu replacement
<zid> if w7 becomes obsolete I'm either switching to xp64 or w10, haven't decided yet
<gog> windows 10 was decent until the creator update
<gog> which was just a bunch of crap
<zid> maybe w2k?
<gog> good luck finding drivers
<gog> unless wdf was backported to windows 2000?
<gog> oh it originated on w2k
<gog> hm
<gog> might be fine then idk
<gog> but
<gog> what about 64-bit support
<zid> I'll run 32 copies of it in a VM
<zid> that'll be about the same
<gog> works for me
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<sbalmos> ahhh, Win2k3. Those were the days.
<sbalmos> xp64 in classic mode might be a welcome change back
<zid> xp64 is 2k3 with xp's theme pack
<zid> rather than being a rebuild of xp's kernel for 64bit
<zid> guess that branch didn't get any love
<geist> yah i dont thin it did. think of it as for some sort of specialized workstation stuff at the time
<geist> that didn't really pan out until later
<geist> also iirc there wsas some builds of XP that had PAE enabled until they found out that there were so many buggy drivers that couldn't handle it they basically turned it back off again in SP2 or whatnot
<geist> the bugginess being that there was lots of 32bit PCI devices on a 32bit sytem so drivers had to handle going through bounce buffers and whatnot to deal with >4GB
<geist> but most didn't, or didn't do it properly, etc
<geist> for servers you could get away with it because you could generally be more strict about which drivers were certified for server use
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<geist> watching space launch fun!
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<Ermine> Who's launching?
<geist> NASA, Artemis. just launched
<Ermine> Yay
<sham1> Finally
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<Ermine> Are there people on board?
<sham1> Apparently not
<geist> no it's the first launch, so it's a test launch with nobody on board, but it'll in an hour burn for moon
<vdamewood> Can we burn the moon?
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<kazinsal> god considering how nervewracking the first minute or so of that launch was *without* people on board, the first crewed mission is going to be a serious butt-clencher
<kazinsal> all the way up I was just thinking "please don't blow up please don't blow up"
<mrvn> Looking at the nasa websites it's damn hard to find the launch. Even the news site only has "Core stage main engine cutoff, core stage separation complete, 19 minutes ago" in an easily overlooked window. Why isn't the launch the headline with live and recent video?
<geist> yeah i have to admit nasa is not as good as providing real time infos about their launch as the spacex things i've been watching a lot of
<geist> now the official feeds are mostly just a cycling of various onboard cameras
<mrvn> the blog seems to have a running commentary of what's happening
<vdamewood> Rocket go 'whooosh'
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<kazinsal> hundreds of ULA and Rocketdyne engineers are having a coordinated adrenaline-wearing-off-vomit right now
<mrvn> Do they not have any native american astronaut in the program? Only found a woman and a black man to send to the moon?
<mrvn> Or is the woman black to get a double score?
<mrvn> "Artemis missions enable a growing lunar economy ..." It would be hard to shrink it from 0
<mrvn> hehe
<kazinsal> iirc from the third Artemis mission onward they're going to be combined lunar surface missions and lunar orbital space station construction missions
<mrvn> Why do they have to launch when I have to work? I wanna watch.
<kazinsal> launch windows for translunar injection are pretty tight
<kazinsal> the solution to that issue is like, handwavium antimatter drives and shit
<Mutabah> Ooh, is A1 launching?
<Mutabah> It survived the storms?
<kazinsal> yep, it's up there and burning away happily
<Mutabah> Nice!
<kazinsal> core stage is separated and the Orion solar arrays have deployed. next burn is in 10 minutes
<kazinsal> TLI burn should be in 40
<geist> yah in this case it happened to be at night, but basically you gotta launch whenever the disc of the lunar orbit crosses the launch site
<geist> i thin it's like a 2 hour window
<kazinsal> yeah
<pitust> why are the lunar transfer windows so hard to hit? i can kinda eyeball it most of the time in ksp
<bslsk05> ​xkcd - Six Words
<kazinsal> the moon is moving very fast and delta-v is expensive
<Mutabah> Real answer: Kerbin and Mun are much smaller than the earth/moon
<pitust> oh okay
<Mutabah> This means that the delta-v required is much less
<Mutabah> (Smaller, but same gravity)
<geist> but yeah it's all abouit minimizing delta-v
<geist> it aoparently is a little different re: the trans lunar insert. theyre going to do a quick perigee raise burn soon
<geist> and then in some other time (40 minutes from now? I forget) they do a muh longer 18 minute trans lunar burn
<geist> dunno precisely why they're doing it in two burns
<Mutabah> First burn is probably to put them into earth orbit
<Mutabah> (i.e. move the low point out of the atmosphere
<geist> it's already in earth orbit. they're going to raise the perigee in a bit
<kazinsal> yeah, it's just in a very eccentric orbit right now
<geist> oh possibly. could be in a low earth orbit now
<Mutabah> then the second is to kick the high point out to lunar intercept
<kazinsal> the orion spacecraft adapter is also apparently loaded with 10 cubesats that'll get dumped in lunar orbit during the flyby
<Mutabah> You launch into a very eccentric orbit, wait until apogee then burn to circularise
<Mutabah> (iirc)
<geist> yah okay listening to a youtube live vid thats it
<geist> they're burning at apogee to orrect the orbit
<kazinsal> yeah, you gotta make that second burn to ensure that you fall sideways really fast
<Mutabah> And then wait until they're at the right point in the orbit, and burn to put appogee high enough to intercept
<geist> okay so the perogee burn happened
<geist> now 36 minutes til translunar burn
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<mrvn> Can't they go into orbit, do a few loops and then can boost for the moon every time the orbit crosses the right spot?
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<mrvn> I would think they can launch any time of the day.
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<cyao> Hello, does anyone know some tutorial on ata pio?
<cyao> didn;t quite understand the wiki page
<zid> no but if you ask a question I can probably look up the answer
<zid> looks simple enough
<zid> 1F0-1F7 and 3F6/3F7
<zid> data/error/features/sector count/blah blah at each
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<cyao> Can you help me see if i'm doing things right?
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<cyao> Im trying to indentify if there is stuff connected
<cyao> following the wiki
<bslsk05> ​github.com: AsmOS/fs.c at master · cheyao/AsmOS · GitHub
<cyao> But it never prints the second time
<zid> well you're in an infinite loop, fairly obviously
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<Mutabah> At a guess, the optimiser has made the loop truly infinite
<zid> Plus an N/C drive returns 0xFF on all the ports I think, so you don't get out of that loop ever
<Mutabah> Yep - your inline assembly isn't marked as volatile, so the read might be lifted
<zid> because it's neither not having the 0x8 bit set, nor 0
<cyao> ahh so i should make everything volatile right?
<zid> I'd objdump this
<zid> to make sure
<Mutabah> objdump is a good idea
<zid> objdump -d fs.o -Mintel quickly
<zid> just to see if it generated something sensible
<\Test_User> everything that's output may change without changing input
<cyao> let me see
<bslsk05> ​github.com: AsmOS/fs.dis at master · cheyao/AsmOS · GitHub
<cyao> here is the dis
<cyao> and i added all the volatile
<zid> boo no -Mintel
<cyao> but its still in the loop
<cyao> no i used x86_64-elf-objdump -d fs.o -D -Minteal > fs.dis
<zid> inteal :P
<cyao> but idk why its not inteal
<zid> intel
<zid> teal is a shade of blue
<cyao> opps XD
<cyao> there
<\Test_User> intel uses blue shades though so :P
<zid> also this code-gen is terrible, did you use -O2 or -O3?
<Mutabah> zid: That's `-O0`
<zid> ergh
<zid> useless imo
<Mutabah> ... maybe?
<zid> more noise than signal
<Mutabah> yeah, I think it's unoptimised...
<Mutabah> although, I'm used to rust where there can be mega inlining due to the large compilation units :)
<cyao> im using -O0
<zid> yea please don't
<cyao> why not?
<zid> it hides bugs and makes fixing them harder
<zid> because the assembly is unreadable
<cyao> i've heard that optimizing breaks things
<cyao> ahh XD
<Mutabah> Well... it shows other bugs
<zid> hence 'hides bugs'
<zid> optimizing breaks things that are broken to begin with
<Mutabah> cyao: What's the value from that first print?
<cyao> there, now its -)3
<cyao> * -O3
<cyao> the value is 0x50 from qemu
<cyao> and 0x00 from bochs
<cyao> since bochs is 0x00, so im using qemu
<zid> this is an infinite loop
<cyao> keeping things simple
<zid> 9e:74 e0 je 80 <read+0x80>
<zid> a0: eb ec jmp 8e <read+0x8e>
<cyao> but why is it infinite?
<zid> there's no path where it doesn't jump
<cyao> hmm wierd
<zid> because your while says so?
<cyao> let me see
<Mutabah> Found it!
<Mutabah> Take a second look at your code, specifically that loop
<zid> I don't recommend writing weird compound statements like this for this precise reason
<zid> it's hard to reason about
<Mutabah> (Also - Timeouts are a good idea)
<cyao> (How to do timeouts?)
<zid> You could do a count
<zid> these reads all take 1us anyway
<cyao> you mean sleep()
<zid> no literally count
<zid> while(tries--)
<Mutabah> a counter is a way of doing a timeout, using the fact that IO reads take a known amount of time
<zid> inb takes 1us
<Mutabah> but... your code has a direct bug
<zid> so 1000 = 1ms
<cyao> okk
<Mutabah> a logic error in the loop condition
<cyao> i've changed the || to &&
<cyao> just didn't push
<zid> cyao: what does a&0 do
<cyao> clears it
<cyao> ahh i get it
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<Mutabah> cyao: `(in & 0x0) == 0x0` is always true
<zid> which with optimization enabled
<zid> probably produces a warning
<cyao> ahh just changed it
<cyao> still didnt change XD
<zid> I think I'd do like, in = inb(); if(in == 0xFF) return ENODEVICE; if(in & 0x8) ...;
<zid> just for clarity
<cyao> wait so the Floating Bus part of the wiki means that we can inb any port of the bus and see if it's 0xFF
<zid> as long as the register isn't ever able to return 0xFF naturally yea
<\Test_User> would the enodevice status change at runtime? could check that just once before the loop
<\Test_User> ...though prob doesn't matter bc you'll be waiting on the io port anyways
<zid> yea you need beeeeg delays in ATA PIO I think
<zid> wasting a microsecond probably not the end of he world to avoid a deadlock
<\Test_User> yeah if it can change at runtime avoiding deadlock takes priority easily
<cyao> ahh
<cyao> I've found the error
<cyao> if (inb(0x17F0) == 0xFF) { printf("No device!"); }
<cyao> added this in the front
<cyao> and it accutally printed no device
<cyao> but it's weird that qemu returns 0x50
<\Test_User> I mean, 0xFF should & 0x8 and instantly break after you fixed the while condition anyways?
<\Test_User> s/break/exit the loop/
<cyao> I mean before everything
<cyao> even before the outbs
<cyao> (like the wiki said)
<\Test_User> ah
<zid> 17F0?
<zid> I'd wager that'd have nothing connected indeed.
<cyao> wait no
<cyao> i should be more careful with my spelling
<cyao> its still 0x50
<cyao> wierd
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<Nuclear> heh ... writing a boot sector in C feels strange: https://gist.github.com/jtsiomb/ff4c13e353b568599cddbecaf403ecd3
<bslsk05> ​gist.github.com: Bootable 16bit C program with gcc-ia16 · GitHub
<Nuclear> I was looking for a 16bit C compiler, and remembered gcc-ia16. It's fun ... look at the cute way I used to place the boot signature with the link script :)
<zid> nod I wrote nearly the same script for someone else 2 days ago
<bslsk05> ​github.com: rwx/link.ld at master · zid/rwx · GitHub
<Nuclear> even better
<\Test_User> meanwhile I write elf files in assembly :P
<zid> I'd probably change .text and .data to .text.mbr and .data.mbr
<zid> then regular .text and .data go after
<zid> after the BYTE
<Nuclear> yeah if it's not meant for a quick test, and you intend to load stage2 with a proper .text and so on
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<Nuclear> I was doing something like that just now, but I switched my mbr to asm because this just felt wrong. I'm writing stage2 with gcc-ia16 now
<zid> given it's C I'd maybe just do stage1/*.o (.text) and stage2/*.o (.text) or something, annying to globally set .text.mbr on a C file
<zid> but yea I prefer just writing the stage1 in assembly, doing section .text.mbr
<zid> and then everything works nicely
<Nuclear> https://pastebin.com/0RFQbRd5 that's how it is now
<bslsk05> ​pastebin.com: OUTPUT_FORMAT(binary)ENTRY(_start)SECTIONS {. = 0x7c00;.bootsect : { - Pastebin.com
<Nuclear> stage1 in asm, stage2 in C loaded high in conventional memory, to then go ahead and load the kernel low
<Nuclear> (I'm just starting playing around with the idea for a new project, an OS for 8088/8086
<Nuclear> )
<sbalmos> I'm still just writing down my OS features/goals outline
<zid> sbalmos: then colouring it in with crayons after
<sbalmos> zid: I'm classier than that. I use dry erase marker.
<zid> ngl crayons are too tasty to waste on colouring in
<sbalmos> the yellow and orange crayons make a delicious grilled cheese sandwich
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<sbalmos> creating an EFI System Partition puts a shim MBR stage1 bootloader in the first sector for BIOS compatibility. But what code does this ESP shim bootloader load next? Everything else on the ESP is a UEFI app, which would expect being loaded from Boot Services and expect an EFI-init'd environment.
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<gog> hi
<Ermine> hi gog
<gog> hi Ermine
<gog> how are you today
<Ermine> I've passed a colloquium
<gog> nice
<Ermine> thank you, how are you?
<gog> tired
<gog> programming is exhausting
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<Ermine> sleeping should help.
<gog> can't sleep, gotta cook dinner
<Ermine> Uh
<Ermine> I can pet you if that would help.
<gog> sure
* Ermine pets gog
<bslsk05> ​www.youtube.com <no title>
* gog prr
<gog> i need to play that game
<gog> i have it in my library
* Ermine sets megalovania on the loop
<Ermine> I haven't played Undertale though
<zid> you know what megalovania is though
<zid> so you also need the shirt
<bslsk05> ​'DOGGOLOVANIA [YTPMV]' by Zdragow (00:02:55)
<zid> It's also a doggolovania shirt then
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<zid> technically also a mother 3 shirt
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<Ermine> I guess those who look at this t-shirt will get some anxiety
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<heat> oh god what's wrong with companies and super weird interview systems
<zid> I hear if you interview for twitter atm you have to feed elon grapes by hand and he judges your technique
<heat> omggg how did u knowww
<Nuclear> lol
<FireFly> "great, but can you do it in linear time?"
<zid> elon doesn't know what linear time is :P
<gog> i can do it in O(1) time
<FireFly> sure, but he heard some tech person say it before and thought it sounded fancy
<bslsk05> ​twitter: <fixedpointfae> running low on disk space on macOS or linux? remember to empty out your recycle bins (located at /usr/bin and /bin)
<gog> just shove the whole bunch in his throat
<FireFly> and can repeat it to try to out-tech the interviewee
<heat> "do you think you know better than me? you're fired"
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<FireFly> I mean that does seem to be the vibe I'm getting from his companies :P
<heat> "but this is just an interview"
<gog> yeh my advice to any engineer that works for elon that wants to keep their job is to just quietly know more than him
<FireFly> honestly I'm just sad for the employees stuck there for visa reasons
<gog> unless you work for twitter which is probably irretrievably headed to insolvency
<gog> in which case go nuts
<FireFly> or don't answer "yes" to the recent email thing and get 3 months' severance apparently
<zid> Make twitter comment saying you're going to buy twitter, twitter stock spikes, you own 8% of twitter. FEC says that's manipulation and now you have to actually buy it. Twitter is in a bunch of debt, ???, bankruptcy.
<gog> afaik if they don't take the reinstatement offer then it counts as quitting
<zid> We're seeing the ??? phase.
<gog> and they lose the severance
<gog> but if they take their jobs back they might not see 3 more months of pay anyway
<gog> so it probably doesn't make any difference
<FireFly> gog: idk the email explicitly said people who don't answer yes will get 3 mo severance from what I could tell, but it does sound crazy to me especially with what I see on the internet from US companies...
<FireFly> but yeah I've no idea
<gog> and if the company goes bankrupt then fired employees become one of the lowest class of creditors
<FireFly> true
<gog> which is fucking bonkers to me, but that's US labor law in a nutshell
<gog> trump has fucked over thousands of people with this tactic
<FireFly> https://twitter.com/donie/status/1592859900941852674 this reads pretty explicit to me but there's probably a catch
<bslsk05> ​twitter: <donie> Here’s the text of the email Musk sent to Twitter staff overnight. ␤ ␤ Those who don’t commit to being “extremely hardcore” by 5pm ET today must leave the company. ‼️ ␤ ␤ Story: <cnn.com/2022/11/16/tec… https://t.co/expt0d63dH> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhr5owsXEAEcB76.jpg
<FireFly> with the "anyone who has not done so by 5pm will receive three months of severance"
<gog> the catch is that's not a binding statement
<gog> without a formalized agreement he can say whatever and do another
<FireFly> makes sense I guess
<gog> tech workers organize pls
<FireFly> yes
<heat> WE NEED TO BE EXTREMELY HARDCORE
<heat> mjg, STAY HARD
<FireFly> (I say, not being in a union either, but shhh)
<heat> HARD-CORE
<gog> i am a union member
<gog> it's pretty dope
<FireFly> union { cat gog; }
<gog> yes
<heat> unions are not dope
<heat> careful with the UB
<gog> union {cat_t cat: girl_t girl;} gog
<zid> unions are dope
<gog> ;
<zid> I use unions all the time
<zid> I wrote one yesterday
<heat> gog, so you're either cat or girl per the C standard
<gog> yes
<gog> depending on which one i was initialized as
<heat> exactly
<heat> not everyone uses GNU C
<bslsk05> ​gist.github.com: gist:ea5c59287dd4104f21ab8a45362957c2 · GitHub
<heat> some weirdos use msvc
<gog> ew
<zid> anonymous unions bitiiitcheess
<zid> What did the romans ever do for us though
<gog> roads
<GeDaMo> Tagged unions! :P
<heat> cool shields
<heat> pila
<FireFly> heat: ah it's schrödinger's catgirl,
<FireFly> either a cat or a girl but no way to know which one without inspecting the value,
<FireFly> or something
<heat> no
<FireFly> shh it was just a lame pun
<heat> either a cat or a girl but if you inspect the wrong member you fall into a blackhole
<FireFly> yeye
<heat> checkmate
<heat> anyway these dudes are going to ask me questions and they want me to record myself (webcam + mic) answering them
<heat> it sounds stupid and is stupid
<heat> almost as stupid as canonical's recruitment process
<heat> "we don't have enough time for you, so answer this 2-page series of questions in a .doc will ya sweetheart"
<gog> i loved my job interview
<Nuclear> my wife used to work for canonical back in the unity days. I think the process back then was pretty ok if I remember correctly.
<gog> i didn't even interview for the job i have now
<bslsk05> ​'megalovania but only the prime-numbered beats' by — Yukiko — (00:00:32)
<heat> well tbf if I ever apply to a kernel position at canonical again I still have that same .doc
<heat> timesaving all around
<zid> yes but have you ever had megalovania played in front of your religious leader while someone juggles with their feet
<zid> and someone else rides a unicycle
<FireFly> is this about the pope thing?
<zid> yea still hilarious
<heat> what
<heat> what did I miss
<FireFly> agree
<bslsk05> ​'Udienza Generale 05 gennaio 2022 Papa Francesco' by Vatican News - Italiano (01:12:34)
<heat> hahahhahahahahahaa
<heat> i mean, i think the pope loved it so
<zid> pope is cultured
<FireFly> I mean it is a good bop
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<heat> "new papal bull replaces ave maria with megalovania"
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<gog> apparently elon is stepping down as twitter ceo
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<FireFly> huh!
<FireFly> see that's what I was saying would make sense from day 1, but I didn't think it'd happen
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<FireFly> maybe it's so the downfall can be blamed on someone else :p
<gog> maybe
<gog> or it's a genuine attempt to rescue the investment
<gog> perhaps the people he owes money to convinced him that it was his own idea
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<FireFly> perhaps
<FireFly> it's the only good decision I've heard about twitter since he took over
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<GeDaMo> Maybe he thinks he already did enough to save it :P
<FireFly> not to be all conspiratorial, but part of me said earlier (like.. idk a week ago? time is so weird currently) that it seems he's making all the decisions to ruin the value as quickly as possible, wondering if there's some way he could possibly stand to gain from it
<FireFly> like idk.. shorting the company, insider trading, insurance fraud or something
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<gog> that would be in character for him
<gog> he has used twitter to manipulate the stock market before
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<gog> SEC should have slapped him harder for the taking tesla private at $420/share stunt
<zid> I already posted why
<zid> Make twitter comment saying you're going to buy twitter, twitter stock spikes, you own 8% of twitter. FEC says that's manipulation and now you have to actually buy it. Twitter is in a bunch of debt, ???, bankruptcy.
<zid> SEC*
<zid> He's just going to try write it off, rather than paying its debt for forever
<FireFly> gog: apparently he's trying to argue that SEC thing is "not valid because done under duress", in court, now from what I hear
<FireFly> https://twitter.com/themaxburns/status/1592907968131239941 somehow not sure it's a great strategy
<bslsk05> ​twitter: <themaxburns> The attorney questioning Musk seems...unconvinced by that argument. ␤ ␤ "Are you trained as a lawyer?" ␤ ␤ MUSK: "I have some familiarity with the legal system. If you're in enough law suits, you pick up a few things."
<gog> "shitty management" is not duress
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<FireFly> yeah no doubt
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<heat> gog, doesn't he literally have other partners in the investment too
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<gog> yes
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<Bitweasil> We'll see what comes of Twitter, but... it certainly seems like "Hotshot runs his mouth, annoyed he actually got held to what he signed" is a useful description of the events so far.
<Bitweasil> "You suck, I should just buy you!" "Yeah, yeah, whatever... *signs paper in front of him*" "You mean I *what*???"
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<gog> hubris comes sometime in the autumn
<gog> or something
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<zid> I copy pasted some code from a different project, it now doesn't work
<zid> stupid floating point errors.
<zid> Turns out I never handle the cases where things are exactly aligned properly, makes a nice /0
<zid> the previous code used it for drawing spinny things and the rotation amount caused fractions, I randomly picked a nice even spinny speed, crash
<gog> spinny
* gog goes spinny
<zid> oh it works WAY better though if you remember to call sort
<Bitweasil> lol.
<Bitweasil> Nice.
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<zid> I fixed
<Bitweasil> \o] Hack the planet, man! Hack the planet!
<Bitweasil> Also, *Discord*? Ugh.
<zid> It's easy af to use as an image host
<Bitweasil> Fair enough.
<Bitweasil> I just hate Discord as a concept.
<zid> I just have a private channel open and I hit paste
<zid> and I get a url back
<Bitweasil> "What do we want? Decentralized private chat servers! How do we want it run? By a centralized company that can make sure we don't do anything they don't like!"
<Bitweasil> It's like IRC, if Meta ran all the IRC servers.
<zid> I need to backface cull now, so that should be testing the crossproduct of two of the verts vs the dot product with [0,0,1] I think idk
<Bitweasil> I know that's a graphics optimization, what does it do exactly?
<zid> it's not even an optimization
<Nuclear> zid: it's better if you use vertex winding for backface culling
<zid> it stops the faces that are at the back drawing on top of the ones at the front
<Bitweasil> Oh, OK.
<zid> Nuclear: that's what that uses
<zid> the crossproduct gives the opposite answer if you do cross(v0, v1) to cross(v1, v0)
<zid> rather than using backed in normals
<Bitweasil> "If this triangle is entirely covered by others, don't render it"?
<zid> baked*
<zid> no
<Nuclear> oh that's what you meant, sure
<zid> if this triangle is facing away from you
<Bitweasil> Ah.
<Bitweasil> ... yeah, I'm happy to have a working framebuffer these days.
<bslsk05> ​isocpp.org: P2723R0: Zero-initialize objects of automatic storage duration
<zid> If you take two vectors (two of the lines on my triangle, in this case) and take the cross product, that gives you a vector pointing orthogonal to both
<zid> meaning, pointing 'out' of the face
<Bitweasil> My computers are progressively less functional. A 12 year old recently asked of me, "Why are your computers all so... *weird*?"
<Bitweasil> *nods*
<zid> if it's facing the camera, draw it, if not, don't
<zid> now the back faces get culled, and don't draw potentially on top of the front faces
<Bitweasil> (I'd been trying to get Plex to play back properly, and well wouldn't you know, the kernel updated without the DKMS nVidia drivers updating, and the sound module wasn't there, and... etc)
<Bitweasil> Ok.
<Nuclear> backface culling works for visible surface determination only for convex objects though. You need something more for the general case. Ideally a zbuffer
<zid> I am a grate arteist
<Bitweasil> Grate Air-tyst!
<zid> I should just go around putting my thumb and finger against my screen and fix the winding order but meh, that's for tomorrow
<bslsk05> ​svnweb.freebsd.org: [base] Diff of /head/lib/libc/stdlib/random.c
<heat> really high quality code
<heat> it's giving me a head-ache
<heat> hahahahaha
<heat> ha
<kazinsal> oh that's gross. I love it
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<heat> it doesn't even work
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<vin> Why isn't dirty page cache evictions in linux concurrent?
<vin> Or can it made concurrent? Given the emergence of high througput SSDs
<heat> who told you it's not concurrent?
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<gog> hi
justache is now known as justGrit
<heat> hello gog.com
<gog> i got a question for you
<gog> we got games!
<heat> silly gog
<heat> exclamation marks are not for questions
<zid> heat do you use upside down exclamation marks in portugeusese to ruin the surprise
<heat> no
<heat> that's a siesta thing
<bslsk05> ​'Quimby Bass Auto Lot 2' by SCAN-TV 24 (00:02:49)
<zid> a nap thing?
<heat> sí
<zid> sorry I'm lost, what do naps have to do with spoiling exclamations
<heat> both are heavily done by spanish people
<zid> ah
<zid> so like saying something english is roast beefy or whatever