klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<klys_> having significantly less free time means I may be looking for something like littlekernel but with acpica and hoping someone else may have developed it.
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<vin> Is there a way to introduce fixed latencies to your stores and loads?
<klys_> presumably you're using paging? does the latency include time for a page fault?
<kazinsal> as in, make each load always take exactly X ms?
<kazinsal> or I guess us or ns
<vin> No add X us to loads and stores
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<Mutabah> For what purpose?
<vin> Mutabah: this is to mimic RDMA calls
<vin> so I need my stores and loads to be slower than actual
<Mutabah> But why?
<Mutabah> (Short of disabling caching on a region of memory, I don't know of any way of changing access latency)
<Mutabah> But maybe you don't need to?
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<vin> I don't have ready access to RDMA so I want to emulate it.
<Mutabah> But why does the timing matter?
<klys_> what's rdma?
<kazinsal> remote direct memory access
<kazinsal> tech for zero-copy networking
<Mutabah> Ah, wait, you want to profile with those access costs?
<vin> That's correct Mutabah
<klys_> are there two or three free projects out there with acpica?
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<klys_> found tilck somewhere
<bslsk05> ​github.com: tilck/modules at master · vvaltchev/tilck · GitHub
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<geist> klys_: it's pretty easy to work with acpica
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<geist> could fairly easily port it to LK
<geist> what are you looking to do with it?
<geist> i was just thinking about tossing together a acpi lite library, just enough to parse the trivial tables (ones not involving bytecode interpretation)
<kazinsal> yeah, that's be handy for a lot of folks to get a leg up
<geist> but, we had acpica in zircon for a long time, and i remember it wasn't hard at all to port. just have to provide some stub routines for locks and whatnot and bobs your uncle
<kazinsal> because while it's good to know that kind of stuff, ACPI is just... a pain
<geist> yah i started a 'acpi lite' library for zircon a while back, wrote it in C and then it was converted to fancy C++
<geist> but can go into history and grab the C version of it before it was complified
<geist> will add a todo list
<geist> https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/fuchsia/+/refs/heads/main/zircon/kernel/lib/acpi_lite/ is the current version of it. if you look back in history there was a simpler one that was basically plain C
<bslsk05> ​fuchsia.googlesource.com: zircon/kernel/lib/acpi_lite - fuchsia - Git at Google
<geist> but MIT licensed, etc
<bslsk05> ​fuchsia.googlesource.com: zircon/kernel/lib/acpi_lite/include/lib/acpi_lite/structures.h - fuchsia - Git at Google
<geist> https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/fuchsia/+/645dbffdfbf52f72491187a1c59af1a677e3dd00 actually is the original one. doesn't do much but find the RDSP and whatnot and provide structures to parse some of the simple tables, but thats' actually most of what things need... hmmm!
<bslsk05> ​fuchsia.googlesource.com: 645dbffdfbf52f72491187a1c59af1a677e3dd00 - fuchsia - Git at Google
<geist> think i might pull this over right now..
<klange> I just want battery status, but that's complicated stuff...
<kazinsal> I think there's some bytecode involved there yeah
<kazinsal> that's one of the really annoying things about ACPI imo. you need to evaluate bytecode for so many little things
<kazinsal> get AC status? bytecode. shut the computer off? bytecode. interrupt routing on the IOAPIC? ooh, you better believe that's a bytcode
<sham1> The fact that one needs the AML for even doing something "simple" like shutting down the computer is silly
<sham1> Although now I'm wondering if one could readily JIT AML
<sham1> Probably not, but it'd be funny
<klange> toaruos will get an AML interpreter eventually...
<klange> random anecdote: should one look at the history of kernel/arch/x86_64/smp.c in my git repo, one will find that it was previously called kernel/arch/x86_64/acpi.c before I said "screw it, I just need the madt and I'm outta here"...
<sham1> Meanwhile I need to deal with a different type of bytecode... I can't even compile this though since this Java I need to study for my work is too darn ancient
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<kazinsal> gonna start planning the 64-bit rewrite of my kernel core tonight I think
<kazinsal> I'm now on vacation until the 22nd so I've got plenty of time to fiddle around with osdev stuff
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<Ermine> klange: do you plan writing your own interpreter or use acpica
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<geist> noice. i got acpi_lite working
<geist> will polish this up and get it in the build
<kazinsal> rad
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<geist> it is still written in lightweight C++, but can be converted back to C fairly easily. mostly jsut static casts and whatnot
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<bslsk05> ​github.com: lk/lib/acpi_lite at master · littlekernel/lk · GitHub
<geist> basically probes around and finds the ACPI tables and then gives you an ability to iterate over some of the basic ones. more tables can easily be added
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<geist> ugh, the MCFG table is described in the PCI Firmware specification
<kazinsal> huh. don't think I've ever actually read that one
<geist> which seems to be behind PCI SIGs password protection
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<kazinsal> aaaand that would be why
<geist> it doesn't look complicated, but it basically just has a single entry that says 'yer pcie config table is here'
<geist> looks like it's documented on the osdev wiki, so *shrug*
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<geist> easy peasy
<bslsk05> ​IRCCloud pastebin | Raw link: https://irccloud.com/pastebin/raw/GWbOJ0Su
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<qookie> hi, so i got pcie working on the rpi4 to the point where i can enumerate the devices and access the config space, but trying to access the xhci's bar (after allocating it before) yields an serror
<qookie> does anyone habe any ideas how i can approach this?
<j`ey> it has some quirks, so you should probably look at another OS, to see how it handles it
<clever> qookie: there are 2 traps on the pi4, first is that the ECAM is wonky, and second is the vl805 firmware may be missing
<clever> qookie: do you know if the vl805 eeprom is present or not?
<qookie> clever: yeah i already experienced ecam being wonky (and worked around it by doing the same linux does, not enumerating anything but the first child on the downstream port)
<qookie> i also told the firmware to upload the vl805 fw via the mbox property interface, but i'm not sure if that 100% worked
<clever> i believe that must be done after you assign an address to each BAR
<qookie> that is the case here
<clever> if the vl805 eeprom is present, you can also skip that mailbox call
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<clever> qookie: https://imgur.com/Ie6jrA3
<bslsk05> ​imgur.com: Imgur: The magic of the Internet
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<qookie> oh yeah my board has it
<clever> qookie: when you configure the xhci scratch space (as the specs explain), the vl805 will copy its own firmware from flash to host ram, and then begin executing that firmware
<clever> it doesnt have enough ram to hold its own firmware (lol), so it has to steal some host ram
<clever> but then RPF decided to save 25 cents on each board, and just ditch that spi chip
<clever> so some non-standard code has to be side-loaded into the vl805, to make it load firmware that is already in ram
<clever> that spi chip is how the vl805 "just works" when used as a pci-e card on x86, with nothing more then the standard xhci drivers
<qookie> ah
<qookie> well my problem is that i get an serror on the very first read the driver does (reading CAPLENGTH)
<qookie> ig i have to dig through the linux code some more
<clever> yeah, that sounds like you cant even set the scratch space up
<clever> of note, the pci-e controller on the bcm2711, has some inbound and outbound window setup
<clever> which kinda acts like an iommu
<qookie> yeah i do that, but i could've misread the linux driver or made a typo
<qookie> would be nice if i had an actual datasheet and not just the linux code but oh well :^)
<clever> i'm dealing with the exact same issue in the 2d subsystem
<clever> dumping the config that the closed firmware did, reveals it doing things that the linux drivers claim isnt valid
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<qookie> typical broadcom :^)
<chibill[m]> I am having issues just getting interrupts xD (on x86) Really need to get some more experience at this stuff. (Also trying to decide if I should transfer into Long Mode before I do anything or not.)
<Bitweasil> chibill[m], unless you've got some explicit reason not to, step 1 ought to be get into long mode, and then step 2, everything else.
<Bitweasil> You avoid a LOT of the weird historical complexity that way.
<chibill[m]> I wonder if I can get the multiboot header to drop me into long mode.
<qookie> clever: looks pretty odd and cool at the same time, do you have any clue as to why that happens?
<clever> qookie: well, for one, i wrote a 17bit int into a 16bit field...
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<qookie> lol
<chibill[m]> ouch
<clever> capping it doesnt help though
<clever> ok, so when its glitching, the scale factor is 0x9e41 (a 5.16bit fixed-point int)
<clever> 0x9e41 / (1<<16) == 0.6181793212890625
<clever> so the source image is ~61% the size of the output image
<clever> and doing x * 0.61 will give you an x coord within the source image, but it glitches out
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<clever> the linux source did say that this mode was only for downscaling, and this is upscaling...
<clever> let me implement the proper upscaling mode...
<chibill[m]> I think I am going to hang out in Protected Mode for now, so I can figure out how to set everything up properly. As I am still figuring out how to set up my IDT.
<chibill[m]> Currently I have a kernel that is basically a lightly modified Bare Bones C Kernel. (I reworked the console output a bit to make it better.)
<Bitweasil> Seems reasonable.
* Bitweasil kind of wants a Frame.Work laptop but has no use for one and shouldn't own modern hardware.
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<gog> the spec i want is $2849
<j`ey> I'll take two
<gog> doesn't have a discrete graphics option tho
<gog> that's kindof a dealbreaker for me rn
<gog> also the fact that i don't have $2849
<gog> plus whatever customs makes me pay in tariff
<gog> XD
<j`ey> gog: any luck re: job?
<gog> nothing.
<gog> well, sort of
<gog> it's a part-time store clerk job
<j`ey> better than nothing
<gog> better than nothing and the manager is a cool guy
<j`ey> does the manager need an OS?
<geist> same: re framework laptop
<geist> though i didn't think they went that expensive
<geist> also right now if i got an x86 laptop i'd want a zen based one
<gog> geist: i picked the highest spec plus the 4TB nvme
<gog> but also i agree
<gog> i'd actually like a zen APU
<gog> with actually good integrated graphics unlike intel :p
<gog> also i absolutely do not need 4TB of storage
<gog> it's not like i'm making videos
<gog> unless...
<chibill[m]> I think I got my IDT working, just need to figure out the proper way to configure the PIC and I should be able to test it properly.
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<qookie> chibill[m]: why not test it with something like "int 3" or division by zero?
<Bitweasil> ^^
<Bitweasil> You can induce faults that go through the IDT without external interrupts.
<Bitweasil> gog, if I'm going to do anything that requires that much storage, I'll either use externals, or a good desktop. I don't need 4TB on a laptop.
<Bitweasil> And if I *did*, I'd probably be fine with "slow" storage for it.
<Bitweasil> What's the issue with discrete graphics? The new Intel stuff is tolerable for desktop use, same as it's always been.
<Bitweasil> Hardware accelerated cursors and other modern features like that.
<qookie> my intel hd graphics 4000 is still working fine for me :^)
<Bitweasil> But for that money, if you're not opposed to it, you could get a M1 laptop of some variety that would be a lot quicker.
<Bitweasil> My... hrm.
<gog> Bitweasil: gaymes
<Arsen> qookie becomes an irc regular part 1
<Bitweasil> I've got... is 965 the old chipset stuff that's used on the Atoms?
<c2a1> How can HD 4000 do chrome even
<c2a1> Yes
<qookie> it working fine
<Bitweasil> At some point, you just treat it as a framebuffer-to-monitor driver. :p
<Bitweasil> What generation is the HD 4000 in?
<qookie> 7th iirc
<qookie> ivy bridge
<Bitweasil> ... what graphics *does* this laptop have? *pokes*
<Bitweasil> Oh, new stuff.
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<c2a1> Ivy bridge is like 2011 if I'm not wrong
<Bitweasil> I thought it was a bit newer.
<Arsen> 2013?
<Bitweasil> Maybe it's the same era as this netbook.
<Arsen> >From April 29, 2012 to June 5, 2015
<Bitweasil> I've got an Atom D525.
<c2a1> Bitweasil, what kind of computer are you using
<Bitweasil> Ok, that sounds right for Ivy. IIRC that was the first gen with unrestricted guest support.
<c2a1> Oh
<Bitweasil> er, which one?
<Bitweasil> Right now, a RasPi4.
<c2a1> I used an atom n270 and it moved at a snails pace.
<Arsen> the ivy bridge logo is p cool
<c2a1> A raspi 4 is probably faster
<Bitweasil> This netbook is an old ASUS netbook, D525, "Intel Corporation Atom Processor D4xx/D5xx/N4xx/N5xx Integrated Graphics Controller."
<Bitweasil> Oh, certainly.
<c2a1> It can do regular opengl even so I could probably put that to the test if I werent likely going homeless soon
<Bitweasil> The Pi4 however is not portable.
<Bitweasil> In a useful sense of the word.
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<clever> Bitweasil: pi400?
<Bitweasil> Doesn't have a monitor.
<Bitweasil> I have a perfectly good little ARM laptop too.
<Bitweasil> But some of what I have to do when I'm mobile is better served by x86 and a physical ethernet port.
<c2a1> Pinebook?
<Bitweasil> Pro, yeah.
<c2a1> Oh that's cool.
<Bitweasil> It's my daily driver in the house, but I don't have good x86/WINE translation going on it, and some of the network admin tools I use are x86 (Winbox).
<bslsk05> ​'Finally! A Raspberry Pi Linux Tablet that works!' by Jeff Geerling (00:26:30)
<Bitweasil> So I keep the old netbook around for that, and it's actually... if not, fast, tolerable with Linux and Win10.
<Bitweasil> lulz, you should know better than to link me to a video.
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<Bitweasil> This box has neither sound nor working video at the moment.
<c2a1> Do you have anything more powerful?
<Bitweasil> Yeah, but I feel dirty using them.
<c2a1> I had a MacBook air but I lost it in transit.
<Bitweasil> I've got an ODroid N2+ desktop... ;)
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<Bitweasil> I actually have some more modern x86 stuff.
<Bitweasil> I've got a... oh, what's in it...
<c2a1> Its GPU was giving me errors though. Overheated memory probably.
<Bitweasil> Skull Canyon NUC?
<c2a1> Who knew steam games could kill a laptop
<Bitweasil> i7-6770HQ?
<c2a1> Apple used to have notoriously bad laptop build quality and now they're hailed for it
<Bitweasil> And I've got a tolerable recent desktop in the house, maybe 8000 something or other Intel? I should replace it.
<Bitweasil> 8700K, maybe?
<Bitweasil> And an old 980 GPU.
<Bitweasil> But I feel dirty using modern computers of the fast x86 variety.
<Bitweasil> Even though nothing actually works on ARM. :(
<c2a1> Heh most open source linux packages do
<Bitweasil> Node stuff still really struggles with AArch64 builds.
<j`ey> as in, node.js?
<Bitweasil> So I don't have Signal, Element is iffy (no native stuff gets built so search doesn't work), Spotify is a problem (ncspot is OK but has some weird issues with garbling audio badly), etc.
<Bitweasil> Yeah.
<Bitweasil> :/
<Bitweasil> "The environment in which everything is written anymore."
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<Bitweasil> I also have a couple x86 servers that are fairly powerful.
<Bitweasil> But could replace at least one of them with a little ARM box, if I could bolt enough storage in.
<Bitweasil> (An 8 core ARM box with 32GB or 64GB RAM, for not "custom server" prices, would solve a lot of my problems)
<Bitweasil> A bunch of X2 cores or something.
<j`ey> (and not apple :P)
<c2a1> Are they cheaper than x86 servers usually
<Bitweasil> Right now, no.
<c2a1> I'd buy an arm based Xserve comeback
<Bitweasil> ... yeah, and not Apple. Unfortunately, "Win10 VMs" are something I make use of.
<Bitweasil> For DRM stripping ebooks and such.
<c2a1> Then power efficiency is the only selling point right now
<Bitweasil> I disagree.
<Bitweasil> Anandtech has done quite a few reviews, and in a lot of workloads, not only are the ARM servers more power efficient, they're absolutely faster.
<c2a1> What are the others?
<Bitweasil> It depends a bit on your workloads, but for stuff that's not single thread performance bound, the high core count ARM boxes really put in a good showing.
<c2a1> Heh
<c2a1> Amd could do better
<Bitweasil> Their recent high core count chips are pretty solid too.
<Bitweasil> I'm just over x86... unless someone wants to pay me a lot.
<Bitweasil> ARM is ugly too.
<Bitweasil> I honestly think I'm burning out of low level tech and computers entirely.
<c2a1> How is an isa ugly lol
<c2a1> They're all ugly trust me
<Bitweasil> I'm in ARMv7 at the moment.
<Bitweasil> It's the worst of all the ARM worlds from what I hear. Lots of banked registers and stuff hacked in.
<Bitweasil> "Bolt it on and ship it!" style stuff.
<c2a1> x86 for one is actually the ugliest
<c2a1> Forgot what channel I was in
<Bitweasil> Trade you for the horrors of the ARMv7 MMU, dealing with banked registers for monitor/hypervisor/os/user, both secure and non, if implemented. That's a mess. :(
<Bitweasil> x86 is ugly as well.
<Bitweasil> But in some ways, ARMv7 has "more crap bolted on."
<Bitweasil> Supposedly ARMv8 cleans up a lot of it, but I've not started reading that reference doc yet.
<Bitweasil> And I'm at the other end, I'm writing emulators, so I have to implement the stuff in software.
<Bitweasil> You can ignore a lot of the ugly if you're just writing an OS for it.
<qookie> hmmmmm what is udev doing https://owo.whats-th.is/5CEFgBH.png
<c2a1> Isnt x86 8080 -> 8086 -> i386 -> x86_64
<c2a1> Or are 8086 and 8080 not compatible
<c2a1> I thought the lower and higher halves of each 16 bit register were for pseudocompatibility
<qookie> iirc they're source compatible but not binary compatible
<Bitweasil> The 8080 was an 8 bit chip, IIRC. The 8086/8088 are 16-bit.
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<bslsk05> ​pastraiser.com: Intel 8080 OPCODES
<c2a1> Correct. Not compatible
<c2a1> But similar
<chibill[m]> <Bitweasil> "What's the issue with discrete..." <- I have a dislike of their handling of drivers for Windows. My sandybridge had issues on Win10. Xd
<Bitweasil> Linux driver is just fine...
<Bitweasil> :p
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<qookie> https://owo.whats-th.is/2MMoufn.png holy crap it finally works
<qookie> it was a really dumb mistake as well
<qookie> i forgot to enable memory decode in the bridge's pci command reg
<clever> qookie: ah, that sounds important
<clever> qookie: also of note, the bcm2711 has 2 xhci controllers
<clever> if you put otg_mode=1 into config.txt, a second xhci will appear in your device-tree
<clever> that 2nd xhci controller, is routed to the usb-c port, but is usb2.0 only
<qookie> isn't the usb-c port handled by a designware controller?
<qookie> or is that one xhci compatible as well
<clever> both the dwc2 and the xhci controller share a single usb phy
<clever> otg_mode= selects which usb controller is enabled
<qookie> ah
<clever> with the default (otg_mode=0 i believe), you can enable the dwc (it must be enabled with an overlay), and then do device or host stuff
<clever> the closed firmware does undocumented things to enable and route things
<qookie> huh
<clever> but with otg_mode=1, the xhci controller is enabled instead, and can do host-only usb2 stuff
<qookie> also some more good news: legacy pci irqs work fine without any special setup (broadcom didn't break them :^)
<qookie> bad news is that my xhci driver is unhappy and doesn't want to acknowledge the irqs
<clever> if you flip on otg_mode=1, youll have a second xhci to play with, and find more edge cases!
<qookie> just what i needed
<clever> i heard that linux had an edge case, where it didnt like an xhci controller with no usb3 ports
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<Bitweasil> Wouldn't surprise me, that's an odd one...
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<clever> Bitweasil: and this is my latest investigatings into hw scaling on the rpi: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/872036106122698752/908491617239969822/20211111_190113.jpg
<clever> the input bitmap is a 102x102 pixel image, with a grid drawn on it
<clever> the output is configured to sweep from 5x5 to 200x200, so it both downscals and upscales
<Bitweasil> Huh, fun!
<clever> Bitweasil: https://youtu.be/_3MWwF_2Ln0 is a full animation
<bslsk05> ​'HVS scaling animation test' by michael bishop (00:00:16)
<clever> for 102x102 and below, it uses a down-scaling mode that appears to work perfectly
<clever> but above that size, its using an upscaling mode that i havent fully implemented
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<bslsk05> ​github.com: linux/vc4_hvs.c at rpi-5.10.y · raspberrypi/linux · GitHub
<clever> so the next course of action for tomorrow, is to port this over, and try and understand what the heck its doing
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<c2a1> Is the VC GPU open source as far as drivers go
<c2a1> When the pi 1 came put that seemed like a big issue that they werent
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