teepee changed the topic of #openscad to: OpenSCAD - The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller | This channel is logged! | Website: http://www.openscad.org/ | FAQ: https://goo.gl/pcT7y3 | Request features / report bugs: https://goo.gl/lj0JRI | Tutorial: https://bit.ly/37P6z0B | Books: https://bit.ly/3xlLcQq | FOSDEM 2020: https://bit.ly/35xZGy6 | Logs: https://bit.ly/32MfbH5
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 modifications (Add comment about bin/ vs. Scripts/) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/6d1dcd111d95f50f1c2ac916351a217fe367ba11
<gbruno> [github] kintel synchronize pull request #4585 (Test using msys2 python for tests) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4585
<InPhase> kintel: Well officially according to the Python people it's supposed to be about the platform.
<InPhase> kintel: It's just msys2 is being difficult about it and trying to be "standard" where Python officially decided to not be standard on this for Windows.
<InPhase> But the end result is apparently yes, we need a search or something.
<InPhase> At least if it's Windows. :)
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<lf94> hm, not sure how kintel sees messages
<lf94> kintel: that's not JavaScript, that's web browsers doing the sandboxing
<lf94> guso78[m]: pong :p
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<JordanBrown[m]> Well, kind of. It helps when you have a language engine that does not rely on programs being able to do local file system operations.
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<kintel> I just noticed something: 'openscad /path/to/file.scad -o out.png' writes out.png to $cwd, but 'openscad /path/to/file.scad -o out.csg' writes out.csg to `/path/to/out.csg`
<kintel> ..since 2021.01
<kintel> Does anyone know if this is intentional?
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<InPhase> kintel: I don't know if it's intentional, but I'll confidently declare the second behavior is wrong.
<InPhase> kintel: Even worse, -o ./foo/out.csg does not look at ./foo/out.csg but at /path/to/./foo/out.csg and then complains ''Can't open file "./foo/out.csg" for export'' if there is no foo at the source.
<InPhase> kintel: Then the behavior changes instantly if the -o starts with "/"
<kintel> How do the test cases work?
<InPhase> lol
<InPhase> Asking the hard questions now.
<kintel> I've learned a few lessons along the way :)
<kintel> but man, I can hardly remember what I started out trying to achieve back in January or so : /
<InPhase> Without looking, I'm going to guess someone observed this behavior, and then wrote the test processing around it.
<InPhase> Actually, it is probably saved by cmake putting absolute paths on everything.
<InPhase> I remember doing the image thing and copying and pasting from the test run commands. I think it was all absolute paths.
<InPhase> Therefore at the very least, fixing this should not alter the tests!
<kintel> I was more interested in making the test fail if this breaks again after fixing
<kintel> ..in case that rings any bells
<kintel> ^ ignore me. This isn't it..
<InPhase> That csg thing is old, as the last release did it.
<InPhase> That was the second thing I tried it on after you said it.
<InPhase> Oh. Not super old though. 2021,01 does it, but 2019.05 did not, and puts them at the right location.
<InPhase> So somewhere in that 20 month window.
<InPhase> kintel: Ah, I see. teepee appears to have struggled in the vicinity of 2021 and a little earlier with trying to achieve balance in the force while fighting a mess of imports and exports and changes to the cwd in openscad.cc
<InPhase> So it doesn't seem that was the actual intended result, but it was instead about other things using the path. We just need csg and ast
<InPhase> to have absolute paths constructed earlier in the openscad.cc run.
<InPhase> kintel: The critical information to understand it is in this post: https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/3879#issuecomment-918571018
<InPhase> kintel: And I confirmed that .ast is indeed exhibiting the same issue.
<InPhase> I believe the line there that avoiding CWD changes entirely is probably a much bigger refactor. But doing an absolute path transformation of the csg an ast output locations should be quite doable
<InPhase> Perhaps QFileInfo(blah_csg_filename).absoluteFilePath()
<InPhase> And, I need to get to bed.
<kintel> thx for digging that up!
<kintel> I still think we really need automated tests for this, or we'll keep chasing this around in circles
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<InPhase> In this case the tests are just too robust, having absolute paths. :)
<InPhase> Make crappier tests so they break more!
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<gbruno> [github] sonichy closed issue #4600 (Export to STL has no respond) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4600
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<gbruno> [github] sonichy edited issue #4600 (Export to STL has no respond) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4600
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<gbruno> [github] sonichy opened issue #4629 (How to model cube round a face ) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4629
<gbruno> [github] sonichy edited issue #4629 (How to model cube round a face ) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4629
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<gbruno> [github] gsohler synchronize pull request #4588 (Adding Python Support to OpenSCAD) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4588
<gbruno> [github] sonichy opened issue #4630 (Welcome chinese filename mess code load fail) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4630
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<Scopeuk> hmm turns out even with a template it can be completely ignored
<J2338> that what i was wondering how he applied the lable
* Scopeuk is split between adding a meaningful comment of please provide platform details etc and a description of the problem and "can we just drop the ban hammer"
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<J2338> but you can make a template mask that need to be filled out
<guso78> last night, this was working! Is it possible that CI is run randomly on different machines with different software installations ?
<Scopeuk> I know we now have a template, not sure how "enforced" it is
<Scopeuk> guso78 it shouldn't be, the ci runners are all vm's that come up in "the same" state. that does look werid though
<J2338> but i am curious how we support Chinese - i can't read that.. anyone?
<J2338> google lens say it is proper translated
<J2338> hm i guess he try to open chin character and it is not working .. thought this was fixed in dev
<gbruno> [github] thehans closed issue #4629 (How to model cube round a face ) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4629
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<gbruno> [github] sonichy edited issue #4630 (Welcome chinese filename mess code load fail) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4630
<gbruno> [github] sonichy edited issue #4630 (Welcome chinese filename mess code load fail) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4630
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<kintel> guso78 that failure looks like out of memory
<kintel> I'm struggling with the same lately. Switching to clang seems to help, but I don't know why this just started happening so often
<kintel> It's possible that GitHub is suddenly giving is less RAM or smth.
<guso78> kintel, thank you for the info. its always the same cc files, but apparently these are most memory expensive.
<guso78> i did not know about clang  a week back, but it s output appears to be very similar bytewise
<kintel> I think the culprit is the order of operations. It's the CGAL-relates files that are expensive
<kintel> I was thinking if we spread the CGAL files around a bit, but could improve
<guso78> can *anybody* restart a failed CI job ?
<kintel> ..or reduce parallelization of course
<kintel> No, I think you need some sort of permission to restart
<guso78> how much jobs are  used to compile openscad in CI ?
<guso78> (jobs in parallel)
<kintel> on windows we use ninja, I'm not sure who ninja determines parallelization..
<kintel> ..but according to docs, GitHub gives us 2 CPUs and 7 GB RAM
<guso78> so at most every 2nd source file can be a CGAL one...
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<kintel> guso78 Actually, it looks like we build using 2 processes: https://github.com/openscad/openscad/blob/master/.github/workflows/windows.yml#L38
<kintel> If you change that to -j 1, you can prove that your issue is indeed related to this
<guso78> Haha, right now the bottleneck does not appear to be the build success rate, but rather PR reviewer's  time O:3
<guso78> Your valuable proposal  to split my big PR into many small ones worked  very well at least  initially.
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<kintel> In terms of builds, there is always the chance that we could optimize how we organize compilation units, perhaps we include too much unnecessary stuff etc., but that requires us to profile compilers. It's doable, but not very fun on Windows until we find someone more skilled on that platform : /
<Scopeuk> that shouldn't affect the ci, to my knowledge all of our builds are done under Linux
<kintel> Scopeuk Not the Windows CI; it's on msys2
<kintel> ..because we want to run the tests on ~Windows proper
<Scopeuk> I thought we only used the windows ci to do test runs
<Scopeuk> if we are building there we are building there, msys is painful
<guso78> openscad compiled much faster in in  msys then in  MXE. issue is that msys2 bindaries don't run anywhere else ...
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<kintel> Yeah, we're both building and testing on msys..
<Scopeuk> I think I spotted the source of my confusion, the msys2 build is done but it doesn't make the executable available, you have to get it from the cross compile
<kintel> Painful indeed :) .but less painful than MXE+Wine, or Windows native. I guess pain is unavoidable..
<Scopeuk> there was a point a short while back where we have native windows builds working under visual c++ but the dependencies support rots really fast
<Scopeuk> I wonder if it might be possible using chained ci, build on the cross compile and then use the product of that to host the windows tests
<guso78> I'd love to have openscad for windows built in MSYS2 instead of MXE but the binary will not run outside MSYS2 environment
<kintel> Yeah, we could potentially chain builds, and move the MXE build to GitHub.
<kintel> Visual C++ in itself is probably not hard. It's the dependency builds that suck
<kintel> That said, I'm trying really hard to limit my Windows exposure : /
<Scopeuk> yeh, I think vcpkg was used for the last attempt
<Scopeuk> but it is source distribution and that adds huge lead time
<kintel> we could set up caching etc., but it tends to be quite some work to iron out all the issues
<kintel> We're doing all of that for the macOS build, but it takes constant care
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<lf94> InPhase: teepee: what're the visitor stats for the openscad website?
<lf94> And downloads
<InPhase> Not sure if anyone is tracking that.
<InPhase> It would probably require some logfile parsing on the server.
<InPhase> And probably only goes back a month or so at best.
<lf94> Could be interesting to check out - I'm curious
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<kintel> lf94 It's been constant for years; I believe around 50K users/month and 30K downloads per month, not counting github
<lf94> That's some nice constant :)
<teepee> also not counting OBS, Flatpak, Snap :)
<kintel> yeah, mine are just website stats
<kintel> we're also not actively trying to grow; we just write code and let them discover it
<teepee> ubuntu claims ~6000 "Weekly active devices" whatever that means
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<InPhase> kintel of the sleepy mac: Do you know how many are nightly vs stable?
<teepee> release version that is, ~2200 for the nightly
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<InPhase> Ok, good. That's indicative of a stronger user base, but still a good testing cohort for following the nightly.
<kintel> InPhase I haven't run the stats for a long time; we have server logs for the downloads, which is per-file
<InPhase> Roughly 30k/month downloading stable means a ton of unique users.
<kintel> the website is analytics, so it's easy
<teepee> or a lot of bots
<InPhase> :)
<guso78> haha, i believe most of the bots are ChatGPT, ...
<InPhase> guso78: Then it should be better trained on OpenSCAD!
<teepee> training on binary downloads seems not very useful though :)
<teepee> unless you trrain it as virus scanner
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<lf94> I'm surprised we dont see more openscad models in the wild then. I feel there are few.
<lf94> I guess more are users than developers
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<teepee> flatpak seems to have no statistics, from the repo feedback, I'd estimate about 2-5 ;-)
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<lf94> InPhase: a pretty good (all) computer-tech-inclined people I talk to havent heard of it
<InPhase> https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=openscad Debian's popcon, by whatever mechanism they generate this cherry-picked data, suggests 1% of debian users have installed it.
<InPhase> Apparently it is user-submitted data instead of download statistics.
<InPhase> Importantly though it is a rising value.
<InPhase> If we trust the value, that's a hazy estimate of somewhere between 300k and 400k Linux users of OpenSCAD installing from the repos.
<teepee> it's the popcorn package when installed :)
<teepee> well, offically without the r but that's boring
<teepee> I never checked how the actual data transfer happens
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<InPhase> I checked, and Ubuntu used to, but doesn't gather this kind of data anymore.
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<lf94> 400k Linux users. I feel that's the whole damn install base. x)
<lf94> How many debian installs are just server / production installations
<lf94> or even just VM installations
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<lf94> > kittycad > saas > vulkan > code cad as saas?
<lf94> im really curious how kittycad's gonna turn out
<lf94> im pretty pessimistic
<lf94> i dont wanna be but there's a few factors
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<teepee> considering Kurt is all vanished, it should turn out nice ;-)
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<InPhase> lf94: Well I don't think anybody's installing OpenSCAD by accident or by any default settings on Linux. So that would be the estimate of the number of people who have run it at least once in, say, the last 3 years (otherwise it wouldn't be on the computer for which the statistic is reported).
<InPhase> lf94: This can notably differ a bit from people who actively use it.
<InPhase> lf94: But I'm pretty confident that the total OpenSCAD user base it at least in the millions.
<lf94> I think you're right
<InPhase> As long as we are not too stringent on the amount of usage that we call "user".
<InPhase> Power users is going to be a smaller crowd.
<InPhase> See, look at that. OpenSCAD is almost better known than rotary phones. (Except for September 2019.) https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=openscad,rotary%20phone&hl=en-US
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<joseph_> teepee: I wanted to check in about goals for the GSoC Community Bonding Period this year. Hopefully this weekend I can carve out time to push some fixes for a few of kintel's suggestions on my PR from last year. Is there anything else you think I should work on? My availability on weekdays is going to be scarcer, at least until the semester ends in late May. Fortunately that'll still be before the beginning of the coding period.
<teepee> joseph_: sounds good, main goal would be finding a mode to keep in touch and syncing up with kintel how to go in small steps
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<teepee> maybe even getting some small pieces separated for master instead of just extending the existing PR
<teepee> so I'd say in short... more talk not yet too much code ;-)
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<guso78[m]> printer repaired again. luckly anycubic kobra uses GT2 belt which i had in stock. so it was just a question to replace the broken one and tighten the new one.
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<gbruno> [github] jordanbrown0 opened issue #4631 (When to use a console message, and when to use a dialog box) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4631
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<InPhase> guso78[m]: Never had a belt break yet. I remember when I first started in 2016 I was slightly more anxious about the availability of replacement parts for printers. I actually went and printed duplicates of every part I could. And a few I actually ended up using! But now parts seem to be super easy to find, and better printers than mine are quite cheap.
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<kintel> joseph_ I'm around until June 22nd and happy to get you started until then.
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<kintel> But generally like teepee mentions, let's try to measure merged PRs more than opened PRs. Managing open PRs after the projects is over is really challenging
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