<midfavila>
i dont suppose the reddit user "NanoCupid" is in here? i'm curious as to their escapades with the pocket reform and the milk-v mars CM4
<midfavila>
oof, wrong channel
<midfavila>
boomer mid fucking things up again
<midfavila>
rip
<midfavila>
also hi kisslinux
<midfavila>
:3
<riteo>
hiiiii mid! :333333
<midfavila>
hemnlo pasta-kun
<midfavila>
how goes it
<midfavila>
?
<riteo>
kinda pain
<midfavila>
oof
<midfavila>
how come?
<riteo>
personal stuff and how it will interact with my family
<riteo>
don't wanna share too much yet
<midfavila>
oh, fair enough
<riteo>
I'm unironically terrified of getting kicked out though, despite what my mother says
<midfavila>
well, if you do ever wanna chat, i don't mind listening
<midfavila>
although i can kinda extrapolate what the situation is there
<riteo>
thx
<midfavila>
'course
<riteo>
that said, have you seen my gaming scripts repo
<midfavila>
have not, no
<midfavila>
been busy with work
<riteo>
jk it's not only gaming but I cracked the code
<midfavila>
and vacationing from work
<riteo>
I have gaming mode™ on my kiss linux laptop
<midfavila>
gaymurr mode
<midfavila>
very nice
<riteo>
yes I must consoom
<midfavila>
consoom the slop
<riteo>
other than that I finally cracked my mind enough to actually try to work on lips!
<midfavila>
slurpslurpslurpslurpslurp
<midfavila>
lips?
<midfavila>
is this a fork of kiss?
<riteo>
I sent to hell the c book. It's cool af and I must read it but I just can't set my mind to read it before dirtying my hands, it's not my style
<riteo>
midfavila: kinda
<midfavila>
that's fair
<midfavila>
honestly k&r is dry as hell
<midfavila>
and it doesnt really teach you enough to do anything serious with it
<riteo>
lips it's an old dream of mine to have a kinda-compatible opinionated version of kiss
<midfavila>
you would benefit from reading the unix programming environment from kernighan and pike and uhhhhhh
<midfavila>
that c book from the french dude on the language committee
<riteo>
I also found out about "modern c"
<midfavila>
yeah that was it i think
<midfavila>
yes
<riteo>
I would not mind making something in C23 or whatever it is
<midfavila>
i need to get back into learning about C but i'm fucking swamped with stuff at work
<riteo>
btw in the end I've decided that lips will be absolutely, undeniably optimized on limiting bandwidth
<riteo>
I like features, you know, like bidirectional rendering :P
<midfavila>
i have to learn docker *AND*, eugh, systemd
<riteo>
ooof that's though
<midfavila>
you have no idea how much i hate this
<riteo>
the kitchen sinks
<midfavila>
worst of all though i have to read up on powershell for the secondh alf of my a+
<riteo>
honestly I have a feeling that systemd might be easier than docker, dunno, that stuff looks /opaque/
<midfavila>
both of it is a pain in my fucking ass
<riteo>
smh my head
<midfavila>
but everything for prod use these days seems to be set up with the notion that everyone just uses docker anyway
<midfavila>
so good fucking luck installing it without
<riteo>
that's a bit sad
<midfavila>
yeah
<riteo>
I can see why systemd, it's a fucking kitchen sink of stuff with even extremely obscure and specific features
<riteo>
but docker
<riteo>
man
<midfavila>
i mean fortunately the business computer i built is beefy enough to handle it
<midfavila>
rockpro64 4gb
<riteo>
"uh we don't know what happens without those dependencies so we bundled the whole os just in case"
<midfavila>
hooked up a SFF LSI card from IBM to it with an SSD and HDD
<midfavila>
pretty swanky little machine tbqh
<riteo>
oh yeah at least it's a "container"
<riteo>
not a VM
<riteo>
so, basically bare metal
<midfavila>
just virtualize an entire computer to install our software bro its so portable please bro come on man just download this 15gb .raw to run in qemu man please dude BRO COME ON MAN
<riteo>
wait docker is user namespaces, isn't it
<riteo>
where does the emulation come from here
<midfavila>
i was referring to uhhhhhh sagemath
<midfavila>
i think
<riteo>
oh all right
<midfavila>
their recommended way of using their software package is to download a vm image
<midfavila>
ive literally never gotten it to boot
<riteo>
how is it possible that software weighs multiple gbs
<midfavila>
i mean with sagemath its kinda fair
<midfavila>
its not a single program its an entire stack
<midfavila>
complete with configurations and extensions
<midfavila>
theres like
<midfavila>
fortran, lisp, python, c, c++, ruby, bourne, and a shitload of other languages involved in it
<midfavila>
i want to get it set up for use while studying
<midfavila>
which is something else i need to pick back up...
<midfavila>
i took khan academy's placement test the other day and did embarassingly poorly
<midfavila>
lmao
<riteo>
oh that looks like some quite nifty software
<midfavila>
forgotten almost everything i taught myself a few years ago
<riteo>
considering they probably got like 0 resources making a VM image makes a lot of sense unfortunately
<riteo>
midfavila: you'll pick it all back up, don't worry :D
<midfavila>
yeah sagemath is one of the few times i dont entirely fault thm for it
<midfavila>
oh yeah absolutely
<midfavila>
once i have a few certs under my belt and im all set at work i'll focus back on my own stuff
<midfavila>
but the focus rn is on the a+/net+/sec+/ccna, and docker and mainstream gahnoonixd shit
<riteo>
oh ccna
<midfavila>
yeah
<riteo>
my school let us have the basic course
<midfavila>
i need to get the ccna in the next couple years
<midfavila>
if i can get it and some experience and other certs i qualify to apply to some of the entry level jobs with our government isp
<midfavila>
which would be so fuckign sick
<riteo>
indeed
<midfavila>
because a) public sector rules private sector drools
<midfavila>
b) its a union gig
<riteo>
yeah the less private the less sketchy
<midfavila>
c) starting wage for helpdesk jockeys is 32cad an hour
<riteo>
bosses /love/ paper pieces, they'll def take you once you get enough of them
<midfavila>
d) you get an insane benefits package including training allowances and flexible health spending accounts in addition to extended full coverage for dental/optical/pharma/etc
<riteo>
looks sick indeed
<midfavila>
yeah its crazy
<midfavila>
enough to deter me from moving to europe
<riteo>
damn
<midfavila>
assuming canada doesnt end up collapsing in the next few years anyway
<riteo>
doesn't some place like finland have probably even more public jobs
<midfavila>
our next election is in a year for the fed cabinet and its likely we'll get a PC supermajority
<midfavila>
and that means our next PM is gonna suspend the constitution and rebase our currency on fucking bitcoin
<riteo>
pc?
<midfavila>
and no im not joking
<midfavila>
"progressive" conservatives
<riteo>
oh lord
<riteo>
not the bitcoin people
<midfavila>
pollievre is actually fucking insane
<midfavila>
he doesnt even have a consistent platform either
<riteo>
that's a bit scary
<midfavila>
he just shits on trudeau in the house of commons, plants his hands on his hips, and gives the camera a shit eating grin every time there's an assembly
<midfavila>
which, tbf, trudeau deserves it
<midfavila>
fuck trudeau
<riteo>
but in the worst case you'll find a job anywhere
<midfavila>
but also jfc
<midfavila>
i also might move to quebec
<riteo>
no idea about "foreign" politics
<riteo>
can't really comment on that
<midfavila>
tbh its for the best
<riteo>
I only know that we're currently being run by fascists or something along that line
<midfavila>
canada is going through a fucking moment rn
<riteo>
like, multiple members of the main party got caught hailing mussolini
<riteo>
is that the word
<midfavila>
im *HOPING* that the conservatives drag the country through the mud and become unelectable in 2029
<midfavila>
and people still remember how shit the libs were
<midfavila>
which would mean people would have to vote for alternative federal parties
<midfavila>
likely our federal socialist party
<riteo>
midfavila: I'm a bit unsure that people will remember 4 years prior
<riteo>
also, marketing! That's a thing in politics
<midfavila>
you dont understand how much people fucking despise trudeau riteo
<midfavila>
trudeau is probably one of if not the least popular PM in canadian history
<midfavila>
even his own party wants him gone
<midfavila>
like a majority
<riteo>
damn
<midfavila>
he's a total joke, at home and abroad
<midfavila>
tanked the national debt
<midfavila>
i dont think he's a bad guy, he seems nice enough, but he isn't cut out for politics
<midfavila>
he should have stayed a schoolteacher
<riteo>
lol
<riteo>
it happens
<riteo>
we also got some quite dumb people in charge currently
<midfavila>
oh also he's being accused by the UN for creating a system of modern slavery
<midfavila>
so that's a great look
<riteo>
wtf
<midfavila>
yeah canada's temporary foreign worker program
<riteo>
oh no
<midfavila>
it's a shit system for everyone except big business
<riteo>
that's quite messed up
<midfavila>
drives demand for housing up despite no new units being built so rent skyrockets, we dont recognize their credentials so we end up with foreign engineers, doctors, etc working menial jobs competing with students and young adults who desperately need that experience, and their residency permit is often tied to a single employer so they cant leverage their labour rights without risking retaliation and
<midfavila>
consequently deportation
<midfavila>
and the government keeps bringing in millions of new people without investing in infrastructure so like
<riteo>
oh so indeed being forced to work for a single rich entity for pennies
<midfavila>
yeah
<riteo>
that sounds like slavery indeed
<midfavila>
pretty much
<riteo>
anyways do you know that unsurprisingly multiple partial shallow clones can save a shitton of bandwith
<midfavila>
ig that makes sense
<riteo>
call me crazy, but imagine that for every package
<riteo>
it would be gigabytes of bandwidth saved
<midfavila>
just checked, 28% approval rating rn
<riteo>
lmaooooooo
<midfavila>
that would be neat
<midfavila>
im watching game of trees closely
<midfavila>
i want to rip git proper out of my base fs
<midfavila>
i mean i mostly have but there's sometimes one or two packages i need that dont release tarballs
<riteo>
what's the difference between it and git
<riteo>
it looks like some reimplementation
<riteo>
damn they have a faq
<midfavila>
yeah got is a minimal obsd implementation of git
<riteo>
> If you are wondering why Got even exists, you can just ignore it.
<riteo>
fair
<riteo>
I mean, it makes sense if one's not using every single thing about git
<midfavila>
yeah
<midfavila>
i only ever like
<midfavila>
clone, commit, and push
<midfavila>
thats it
<riteo>
yeah I can see it
<midfavila>
i dont want curl or perl or any of that other stuff in my basefs
<midfavila>
having a simple, pared down replacement would be nice
<riteo>
oooh another dumb thing I want to do is make some super-generic dependency definitions
<riteo>
like
<riteo>
`/bin/git bin` or something
<midfavila>
like a provides system?
<riteo>
yeah but the other way around
<riteo>
the provided stuff is file-level
<riteo>
since the packages are going to be as deterministic as possible, thanks to unshare or whatever, I can precalculate the manifest
<riteo>
it's all on paper so most of this will not necessarily work obv
<midfavila>
idk its possible
<midfavila>
check out source mage for inspiration
<midfavila>
they have something similar
<riteo>
the idea is that if you expect a "standard" interface you can just tell "dunno, gimme a git, a meson and a ninja, I don't care about specific implementations)
<riteo>
I'll look, thanks!
<midfavila>
albeit based on services instead of files but its a close enough idea
<midfavila>
their fs is also based on bash
<midfavila>
er
<midfavila>
package manager
<midfavila>
fuck
<midfavila>
what am i even doing
<riteo>
nw
<midfavila>
the alzheimers is hitting hard today
<riteo>
kiss linux is surprisingly unixy
<riteo>
nw I do brain farts all the time
<midfavila>
well i mean unix was originally meant to have extra software distributed in source form
<midfavila>
afaik
<riteo>
in fact I've been planning of, hear this up, make some (at least low level) commands that do only specific steps
<riteo>
this way you could for example build here and install it somewhere, like a linux phone, given the right "builder" progra
<midfavila>
you could probably write a lot of it in awk then
<midfavila>
like raw awk without a shell wrapper
<riteo>
I'm hella tempted to use at least partially scripting but I'd really like to have a small and optimized static binary
<riteo>
at least for each step
<midfavila>
that's fair
<riteo>
right now I'm trying to go half-blind for a kiss linux builder (it's just a tar), to get my hand dirty
<midfavila>
i wouldnt mind taking a stab at writing a kiss replacement in c in the future
<riteo>
I don't think it would be terribly hard
<riteo>
even just parsing KISS_PATH is like a single loop with strtok in it
<riteo>
I think that strtok could do like 90% of the stuff lol
<midfavila>
prolly
<riteo>
might need strtok_r for that though
<midfavila>
i want to get a few big projects under my belt before taking a stab at a package manager though
<midfavila>
i need to restart and actually finish apport
<riteo>
yeah that's understandable
<midfavila>
ive also decided to discard work on X stuff for now
<riteo>
I already got experienced with C++-ish thanks to Godot, so I think I might already be a bit in the loop
<midfavila>
focus on curses instead
<riteo>
oh that's interesting, you're planning to switch to curses-based tools?
<midfavila>
planning to write my own curses based tools yeah
<midfavila>
or, well
<riteo>
I suppose still running on X, you want a graphical browser I suppose
<midfavila>
i want to experiment more with FIFO interfaces
<midfavila>
have something like ii as a backend with various frontends
<riteo>
oh yeah, they look really nifty
<riteo>
integrated locking
<riteo>
a bit like TIS-100
<midfavila>
kinda ig
<riteo>
I've been thinking of making a proper status bar program with perhaps different threads
<midfavila>
i also just really like how you inherit a lot of advantages with no extra effort
<midfavila>
like network transparency
<riteo>
they would update whenever they feel like it and keep it syncrhonized with fifos or something. I think it's a poll away or something
<riteo>
midfavila: yeah right
<riteo>
oh so actual fs fifos
<midfavila>
it would also make porting my stuff to other systems trivial if im careful
<midfavila>
yeah
<riteo>
I think that if you stick to posix you'll be fine
<riteo>
probably also p9 will work well
<midfavila>
yeah that's the main concern
<midfavila>
i want to eventually switch to either p9 or my own OS
<riteo>
is p9 posix compatible
<midfavila>
no
<midfavila>
p9 isnt unix
<midfavila>
explicitly
<riteo>
yeah but they can't have changed every single API
<midfavila>
they just cut most of them out
<midfavila>
:p
<midfavila>
the kernel has like 50 some odd syscalls
<midfavila>
thats it
<riteo>
open, write, something to make a fifo
<riteo>
you might have to make a network adapter system
<riteo>
as in, switch implementations at build time
<riteo>
so you can make it use the fs-based p9 api transparently
<midfavila>
yeah
<riteo>
I can't see much else in the way honestly, for most tools
<midfavila>
could also just use p9fs by default...
<midfavila>
9pfs whatever
<riteo>
I don't think that p9fs is the issue here, the "missing" apis are mostly hidden in the fs by the kernel itself
<riteo>
I'm really curious to see how it will go. No rush.
<midfavila>
its going to go very very slowly
<midfavila>
:p
<riteo>
P9 really interests me and I defintely got a lot of inspiration even just from reading about it
<midfavila>
have you ever used it?
<riteo>
tried once years ago on a virtual machine
<riteo>
exploded on me like three times in a row, got stuck and left it alone
<riteo>
it was /years/ ago though, like, I'm bby now so figure out how young I was back then
<midfavila>
:p
<riteo>
maybe I can move more easily now
<riteo>
I'll try it sometime
<riteo>
not sure how much I can appreciate it though on a vm
<riteo>
like, it feels like it would shine on bare metal if not even multiple computers
<midfavila>
you can access its cpu server over the network
<midfavila>
with drawterm
<midfavila>
running on your host
<midfavila>
also fwiw if you can save up the cash the reform imx8mq can run it natively
<riteo>
I don't think I can yet, I'll definitely experiment a shitload with this stuff once I'll get economic independence
<midfavila>
thats fair
<midfavila>
if i can save up the cash myself i want to hack in a model f and one of those modos displays into mine
<midfavila>
i think i already mentioned that
<riteo>
perhaps
<riteo>
not sure
<midfavila>
15.1" with an f77 and a 4:3 epaper display, and little trackball...
<midfavila>
hell yeah
<riteo>
yummy
<midfavila>
as is though im focused on getting one of the b122 keyboards next month
<midfavila>
then i have to do adult things like pay debt
<midfavila>
and save for a downpayment
<riteo>
ouch
<midfavila>
for once im actualy excited to file taxes
<midfavila>
im gonna be getting back like
<midfavila>
four thousand fuckin bucks or something wild
<riteo>
damn, what's going on?
<midfavila>
because i can write off all my moving expenses and i have a bunch of tax credits and such
<riteo>
also, are taxes that annoying to file
<midfavila>
not really
<midfavila>
im just lazy so i pay someone a small percentage of my return to do them for me
<midfavila>
i mean idk about italy obvs
<riteo>
oh yeah I see
<midfavila>
but its mostly just tedium
<riteo>
I think we have a similar profession for doing legal stuff, especially when it comes to work
<riteo>
we apparently have a gagillion measures to avoid people not paying VAT and stuff like that
<riteo>
doesn't seem very effective though...
<riteo>
I got surprised to know that outside italy receipts are way more worthless
<midfavila>
yeah
<midfavila>
at least in canada theres no point in keeping most of them
<riteo>
technically if a cop has a suspicion they can go ask clients of a place for them and if not they can accuse you and the seller of tax evasion or something
<midfavila>
a handful of expenses can be claimed as tax refunds or deductions but
<midfavila>
otherwise short of stuff you might need to return or make a claim on nobody cares
<riteo>
that was my wildest discovery when traveling
<riteo>
everything else is surprisingly consistent in europe, once you get past the language barrier
<midfavila>
makes sense
<midfavila>
god i wish i had a blue card
<midfavila>
qwq
<riteo>
blue card? Is that a passport or something?
<midfavila>
im so jealous that EU citizens can live and work anywhere in the EU
<midfavila>
its a resident visa for aliens
<midfavila>
afaik
<riteo>
oooooh yeah it's super comfy
<midfavila>
i wish the commonwealth nations had something similar
<midfavila>
at least the major ones
<midfavila>
CA/UK/NZ/AU
<riteo>
like I take a plane to germany I just have to pass some light security, fly, land and just leave the exit
<riteo>
yeah that would be fun
<riteo>
the uk did a real big oopsie getting out of europe
<midfavila>
i hear that NZ and AU have work/travel agreements already and if you fly to NZ from AU you get permanent residency just by scanning your passport or something
<midfavila>
yeah no fucking kidding
<riteo>
now I need a passport to go there ffs
<midfavila>
let canada join the EU? :3
<midfavila>
we're like
<riteo>
they underestimated how much they isolated themselves
<midfavila>
europe adjacent
<riteo>
I'm not an european parlament person :P
<midfavila>
fug
<riteo>
if it were for me I'd let everybody lol
<riteo>
after all a bunch of laws already spill over there indirectly
<midfavila>
mmhm
<riteo>
*cough* usb c *cough*
<riteo>
*cough* gdpr (sort of) *cough*
<midfavila>
but tbqh i would be totally fine with just CANZUKAU bilateral work-travel agreements to start
<riteo>
has nobody thought about that?
<midfavila>
we already have massive cultural, historical, and lifestyle overlap
<midfavila>
theyve thought of it and we used to have it
<riteo>
like, there must be some work or even just a proposal somewhere for that
<midfavila>
when we were still british subjects
<midfavila>
but as is canadians get treated pretty much the same as any other foreigner in the UK
<midfavila>
i mean obvs we get visas and stuff really easily
<midfavila>
but i cant just show up in england and get a job
<midfavila>
or like, hang out there
<riteo>
that's quite dumb indeed
<midfavila>
theres a committee called CANZUK trying to push it through rn
<riteo>
tough stuff. Times changed though and europe seems quite happy """mixing""" people
<midfavila>
that's how i understand it anyway
<riteo>
the common wealth could take a few examples from that place
<midfavila>
well yeah its generally beneficial once you get over initial growing pains of integrating your economies and stuff
<midfavila>
i agree completey
<midfavila>
completely even
<midfavila>
the commonwealth is friggin useless as is
<midfavila>
i cant even get help at a british embassy
<midfavila>
unless theres no canadian or canadian-aligned one
<riteo>
oof
<midfavila>
i mean jfc i would even be fine with adopting the good boy point as our currency again
<midfavila>
just p l e e e e e e e a a a a a a s e let me find jobs in more than one country
<riteo>
you'll find a way either way
<riteo>
people are desperate for computer people to install the latest bloatware to run the heaviest webpage you've ever seen containing only their contact info
<riteo>
there just aren't enough
<riteo>
oh btw I just got fixated with blu rays apparently
<midfavila>
yeah?
<riteo>
burning 22GiBs of debian on a blu ray feels powerful
<riteo>
spent like three days making a paper sleeve for the jewel case
<riteo>
not sleeve
<riteo>
more like cover
<riteo>
the paper insert
<riteo>
yeah that one
<riteo>
if for whatever reason my pc explodes and I just so happen to be far from home for no particular reason why are you asking, I can save my butt hopefully
<riteo>
as I don't have the will force of not formatting my fancy usb drive
<riteo>
also disks are just pretty!!!
<midfavila>
thats fair
<riteo>
oh and they're way more inert
<riteo>
an ssd will degrade in a few years
<riteo>
I'm planning to make long-term backups there
<riteo>
22GiBs are really a lot, I'm not sure how to fill them lol
<midfavila>
we
<midfavila>
h
<midfavila>
sorry
<midfavila>
was out
<midfavila>
but yeah ODs are great for that
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<vulpine>
h
<riteo>
nw mid
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<sewn>
kiss either does nothing for 4 weeks and then suddenly has a explosion conversation