<ixelp>
Announcing the First Release of abcl-memory-compiler - Now Available! : lisp
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<mwnaylor>
Yes, I could go with the double colons to get to the "private" section, but there is no guarantee those function will remain. package::function is always a use at your own risk proposition.
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<beach>
Heh! Clouseau is not happy when you do (clouseau:inspect (make-array 10 :element-type nil)) in SBCL.
<beach>
... or rather, Clouseau attempts to access the elements, and SBCL (of course) complains.
<beach>
Same with the SLIME inspector.
<beach>
Same with the native SBCL INSPECT. :)
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<scymtym>
i wish you hadn't mentioned it :)
<beach>
Sorry. :)
<beach>
Blame bike. He was the one who brought up NIL arrays.
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<scymtym>
i thought i had clouseau fixed but then i discovered that SBCL can't ADJUST-ARRAY when the element type is NIL
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<beach>
Hmm, I don't see why it can't do that.
<mrcom>
What are the semantics of that supposed to be? I could see :element-type 'NULL.
<scymtym>
beach: it tries to copy the retained elements, by REPLACE or other means, and that fails
<beach>
scymtym: OK, but that should be handled as a special case then.
<beach>
mrcom: You can't access the elements of such an array.
<mrcom>
Cute error message "An attempt to access an array of element-type NIL was made. Congratulations!"
<scymtym>
beach: right. that special case would slow down the common case to make an edge case work. i don't think a patch to do that would be very popular
<beach>
Yes, performance at all cost.
<mrcom>
But what's it supposed to mean? Wouldn't it be "no type at all". Equivalent to "(value)"?
<beach>
mrcom: That's what the type NIL means, yes.
<beach>
mrcom: It is the "bottom" type. No Common Lisp object is of type NIL.
<scymtym>
the other context in which the type NIL sometimes comes up is the return value of non-returning functions
<beach>
Good point, yes.
* mrcom
is disappointed that "(make-array 10 :element-type 'nil :initial-element (values))" errors out.
<mrcom>
(in sbcl)
<beach>
mrcom: That's not surprising.
<beach>
mrcom: (values) in a context where one value is needed returns NIL, and NIL is not of type NIL.
<beach>
mrcom: So you can't mention an initial element for a NIL array, since no Common Lisp object is of type NIL.
<beach>
*an initial element
<mrcom>
Didn't realize single-result-expected context did that to (values). Sigh. The object equivalent of NaN would be more satisfying to my Hercule Poirot side.
<ixelp>
;Compiler warnings : ↩ ; In (FOO-GF (FIXNUM)) inside an anonymous lambda form: Unused lexical variable Y ↩ ↩ ; In (FOO-GF (FIXNUM)) inside an anonymous lambda form: Conflicting type declarations for Y ↩ ↩ ; In (FOO-GF (FIXNUM)) inside an anonymous lambda form: Conflicting type declarations for Y ↩ => #<STANDARD-METHOD FOO-GF (FIXNUM)>
<mrcom>
There we go, same as sbcl.
<mrcom>
If I was QA'ing a CL compiler I'd be serously annoyed by type nil.
<beach>
That's too bad, since the type is standard, so the system has to deal with it.
<mrcom>
Oh yeah, it's just pretty useless, and to do a proper job the test cases go up by 2^n. And there's the strong temptation to try just one more corner case to see what breaks.
<beach>
It is not useless. You can't have a proper type lattice without a "bottom" element.
<mrcom>
That's the appeal to the Poirot side. Tidy completion. The practical side just rolls its eyes and grumbles about somebody having to actually deal with it.
<mrcom>
Fortunately I'm not testing compilers.
<beach>
If you don't do things completely, there are practical consequences, often in the form of lots of special cases that must be handled differently.
<mrcom>
There is that.
<beach>
You can argue that things like ,(or) ,(and) ,(+) ,(*) are useless too, but it is easier to allow them.
<ixelp>
(or) => NIL and (and) => T and (+) => 0 finally (*) => 1
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<bike>
type nil is useful, nil arrays are useless
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<liminality>
i fixed the memory issue i was having yesterday. i was being a goofball 'n generated all the meshes for all the chunks in the world, and only after gathering all of them would i push them to the gpu and free the meshes from RAM. i'm generating batches of 4 meshes in parallel then pushing them to the gpu and freeing them until all chunks have been gen'd and pushed, RAM spikes are gone :)
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<yottabyte>
what is the system-index.txt file that gets generated? can I .gitignore it?
<beach>
What's the context?
<bike>
the file in quicklisp local projects? you have that in a repository?
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<liminality>
hey so bit of a long shot here but, has anyone heard from cbaggers lately? i'm trying to figure out multithreading with cepl and it looks like he just stopped working with lisp altogether a few years ago...