02:01 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <capnkernel> Hello beautiful Armbian people!

02:02 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <capnkernel> I have an SBC here with an Allwinner H3 (SUN8I 1680) chip, running Armbian "Jammy".

02:02 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <capnkernel> The board is running fine, I can boot it and ssh in.

02:03 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <capnkernel> I'd like to cross compile user-space programs on my computer (x86 running Fedora), which I can then run on the SBC.

02:03 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <capnkernel> How do I go about getting a toolchain to run on my laptop, for generating user-space binaries for this SBC?

04:36 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <capnkernel> I'm back, would still love some help on this!

04:36 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <capnkernel> I'm back, would still love some help on this please!

04:38 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> CC compilation on Fedora = RedHat / Fedora support. There is nothing related to Armbian here

05:09 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <capnkernel> Thank you

05:10 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <capnkernel> I've installed the `arm-linux-gnu-gcc` that Fedora supplies, but it naturally doesn't have the headers and libs from Armbian that I need in order to cross compile hello world. Any ideas there?

05:20 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Such libs come from upstream userspace, Bookworm or Noble to say. So dig through their package archives and you should find what you are looking for.

06:24 <archetech> had to use oibafs mesa but I have hwaccel on X on Rock5b yes I'm the first

06:25 <archetech> panthor

10:09 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> I am looking for stable release image for Lenovo X13S https://www.armbian.com/lenovo-x13s/ - any suggestions? Thank you

13:47 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> There are community images to my knowledge.

13:47 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> Nothing stable atm

13:55 <mort> I want to use Armbian as a base, but build my own system image on top. I'm not interested in the manual installer; I just want an image which will do its thing from the first boot. What's the right approach for this?

14:42 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> mort: documentation https://docs.armbian.com/Developer-Guide_User-Configurations/#user-provided-image-customization-script

14:59 <mort> igorpec: ah, thanks

16:07 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> Thank you, I assume that devices with standard support would have stable release? I can see 'bleeding edge' images, but I doubt they would be supported...

16:09 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> *supported* is best effort in any case. Too many devices with too many branches and flavors for way too few people 😐

16:09 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> nothing in linux world is stable 🙂 its maintained or not maintained, its grey zone. Some are telling the truth, most are abusing this word https://docs.armbian.com/#what-is-supportedmaintained

16:10 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> there are two parts to my enquiry:

16:11 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> there are two parts to my enquiry:

16:11 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> - I want to use stable and not bleeding edge

16:11 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> - I would consider to pay for support/help if required, but I don't expect that would be possible with bleeding edge

16:13 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> are you awere that we are looking at $ that is several times more then device is worth?

16:14 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> I've got storage for few distros/OS, but I need one which I can always use for work. I assume armbian would be the best choice with stable image and possible support/help

16:14 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> highly depends on the device

16:14 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> its not OS, its not distro

16:15 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> it isn't about the cost of a device, but what you can do with it. If I cannot work because my device doesn't work, then it is worth of considering few £££

16:16 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> ok. now look from our perspective. we already lost few hundred hours

16:17 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> we have one device and we would need to invest anothe 100 hours to get it to the level you want. And you will buy us a beer 🙂

16:17 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> there are lets say 50 device out there with the same idea from users side

16:18 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> not to mention device was purchased and is used solo for this purpose

16:19 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> if there would be 10-20 users to support our work, we could keep it in good shape.

16:19 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> if its only you ... if you can cover for others, no problem. We can't

16:20 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> i hope you do understand all this

16:24 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> I assume that my misunderstanding comes from the device status 'supported', which you use for other devices as well, and that on our website you offer some kind of support.

16:24 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> I do understand it and I know how it works.

16:25 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> even if its supported, that doesn't mean we will invest money instead of you

16:25 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> supported means that its in fairly good state and there is someone tacking something with this device. Its not a gurantee

16:26 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> its better level then when device tree bits lands to usptream Linux and its all over the news that "Linux" supports this device

16:26 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> @igorpec I think this is coming off as a bit more rude then you mean it to due to the text and language barrier. @padlock0_46149 he is very cut and dry with how the funds and work is in the project but does not mean to be rude at all.

16:27 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> we have images that actually boots, support quality is decent, usually the best possible

16:28 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> @ahoneybun oh, yeah, I might use improper language. @padlock0_46149 Sorry about that. Just trying to make it as clear as possible.

16:28 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> I think bleeding edge just means that it is an RC testing kernel so not on a stable release. The plan would be to be on a stable kernel @padlock0_46149 once time allows for an update image.

16:28 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> yes and not. it's not that simple

16:28 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> as upstream kernel health is just one thing

16:29 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> most of our images are heavily patched, this device in question is using private fork. Which is pretty much the same thing. Many patches on top of kernel.org and several hacks in userspace

16:30 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> Yea at least it is Standard Support vs just Community Maintained like the Pinebook Pro.

16:31 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> support terms are complex and we can only try our best to match them https://docs.armbian.com/User-Guide_Board-Support-Rules/

16:32 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> I think this is getting in to extended conversation about something quite simple.

16:32 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> As I mentioned, my misunderstanding is in what you call 'supported', which @igorpec explained and it is fine, I haven't problem with the 'clarity' of your expression 🙂 I know what I get if I go to e.g. Oracle or SuSE and pay for support, but they wouldn't support Thinkpad 😉

16:33 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> of course they wouldn't support this Thinkpad.

16:34 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> even we can't afford. It is impossible to return investment into R&D

16:37 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> we have some know how, in theory we could sell support hours for this device, but if you open bugs as end user it applies the same as others -> best effort / forum. If maintainer picks it up, good, if not, nothing we can do.

16:38 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> but you can press on HW vendor to support us to support you

16:40 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> @igorpec can you please confirm that there isn't a stable release/image for the thinkpad?

16:40 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> When it comes to 'support', one specific matter I want to avoid is to have updates/upgrades which would brake usability of the device. I don't need the latest version of everything.

16:40 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> I don't know.

16:43 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> with last release it was confirmed "working good", latest image was tested, works, installer to ssd is broken ...

16:44 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> Yea I opened an issue about the armbian-install script but booting from a live disk works fine.

16:44 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> It seems to be good supported wise currently as audio, Wi-Fi and such works fine.

16:45 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> @padlock0_46149 link to the issue: https://armbian.atlassian.net/browse/AR-2443

16:46 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> I've been using it for ca year and generally it works fine. From my experience (I have arch as well) Armbian is probably the best distro on this Thinkpad

16:47 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> it works now. Without a dedicated maintainer, it will start to fall apart. That is the problem. People only came around when something doesn't work, while persson on our side has to pay bills ...

16:48 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> If I could get it installed I'd like to help but I feel like I have failed when it comes to the Pinebook Pro.

16:49 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> with Pinebookpro, fails is on Pine, then management on our side, which is underpowered

16:49 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> all critical devices have two maintainers

16:49 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> I appreciate the cost, which is why I assume that if I contribute/buy support it would help with the expense to maintain it.

16:50 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> donations helps, always, sadly we have serious work here and that beer levels can't cover

16:51 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> ideally would be to raise money from, like i said before, 10-20 users of this device

16:52 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> as its too much for just one person

16:52 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <igorpec> like this way https://forum.armbian.com/crowdfunding/project/11-fundraising-for-next-armbian-point-release/

16:54 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <padlock0_46149> I don't remember how I've done it, but I am using Armbian on partition with Btrfs. Perhaps it is a newer bug?

16:56 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> It may be I was using ext4 so I may need to test btrfs next.

16:57 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> could you add 10 Euro as an option? I'm sure 5 is not enough to pay for the processing fees.

17:25 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> Looks like it happens with btrfs as well

17:26 <DC-IRC> [Discord] <ahoneybun> oh neat with btrfs I do boot to initramfs at least.

21:03 <mort> A couple questions regarding building a custom armbian image: 1) are you "supposed to" fork armbian/build or is it better to use upstream's as a submodule and wrap it? 2) what's a good way to add software which needs to be cross compiled, such as C software? Is there a system where I can define my own packages similar to Yocto?

22:06 <mort> anyone?