03:48 <p00f1> https://libera.chat/news/matrix-deportalling can you please do this? #river and #foot are the only irc channels I'm in and having to use an irc client just for these would suck

03:53 <p00f1> And the matrix river room is dead

03:53 <NickH> TIL there is a matrix river room

03:57 <NickH> And that matrix has "rooms".

03:58 <Nosrep> TIL the matrix bridge is a separate thing from the client

04:12 <p00f1> <p00f1> "And the matrix river room is..." <- since the room already exists you just have to bridge them

04:20 <NickH> Is there anyway to prevent those sort of strangely formatted messages that come from matrix?

04:20 <NickH> I guess they must be a sort of reply or quote.

04:22 <p00f1> they are replies, yes

04:22 <p00f1> i avoid "replying" to irc users this way for this reason - i do irc-style mentions instead

04:31 <leon-p> TBH I really like that IRC does not have features like replies. Gives it a feel a lot closer to spoken conversation. If you really need replies, use email.

04:40 <RZ_MJ[m]> Do I correctly understand you plan to close the matrix room? That would be unfortunate, I really like not having to use extra applications for IRC and not having to go to the logger each time I was offline.

04:47 <p00f1> RZ_MJ: no, libera.chat plans to close the automatic portal thing

04:49 <RZ_MJ[m]> Does this mean new channels are not automatically connected or does it mean existing ones like this one get disconnected too?

04:50 <NickH> Seems they will all be disconnected and then there will be optional for each channel to opt in.

04:51 <NickH> s/there will be/it will be/

04:53 <p00f1> oh yeah you can just wait until this happens:

04:53 <p00f1> > We understand the impact that disabling portalled channels will have a significant impact on some communities: Ideally, we would like to be able to facilitate portalled access to Libera.Chat again.

04:54 <p00f1> > To do this, we’re exploring options to introduce a new channel mode which would permit the Matrix bridge into to a channel. We’ll provide more information about this in time.

04:54 <p00f1> exploring options doesnt make me optimistic though lol

04:58 <p00f1> oh i just saw this in irc netiquette:

04:58 <p00f1> > We recommend not pasting multiple lines into a channel. How many lines are acceptable depends on the channel; a round 3 is usually a good number. You should use an external pastebin service for larger sections of text.

04:58 <p00f1> sorry about this

05:05 <NickH> LOL, I have no control over the bridge, but I don't think you're helping the case for it ;-)

06:00 <RZ_MJ[m]> So when the bridge is removed, will the matrix side continue as an unofficial room or will it not exist anymore?

06:02 <p00f1> there is no matrix side here, both of us are talking in the irc room

06:02 <p00f1> or channel rather

06:02 <p00f1> #riverwm:matrix.org is separate from this one

06:02 <NickH> I don't knwo how or who creates matrix rooms.

06:03 <NickH> s/how/how to/

06:09 <RZ_MJ[m]> From the matrix perspective, this is indeed a matrix room. "Will it not exist anymore" was bad phrasing from my side, I should have asked "will the bridge kick all matrix users and make the room unjoinable".

06:10 <p00f1> i think so yes

07:29 <ifreund> hmm, at some point in the distant past I had the #river:matrix.org room but it looks like that is no more

07:30 <ifreund> I'm really not a huge fan of matrix personally, any one know if there is some way to disable replies/reactions/etc for a room?

07:35 <ifreund> looks like thats https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/836

07:40 <ifreund> alright, well trying to set up a bridge for #river-irc:matrix.org is failing with "Could not request link. Error M_AS_UNKNOWN: An internal error occurred"

07:40 <ifreund> I give up for now

07:42 <RZ_MJ[m]> ifreund: I don't think there is much need to disable them. I just scrolled up, unless I missed something, no one has used replies or reactions in the entire june.

07:43 <ifreund> RZ_MJ[m]: Yeah, it hasn't been much of an issue here

07:43 <ifreund> I have seen a lot of noise due to it in other rooms though

07:44 <ifreund> It's kinda a moot point for now as setting up the bridge is apparently just plain broken at the moment

07:47 <NickH> Just a few hours ago https://0x0.st/H1Me.png

07:48 <RZ_MJ[m]> NickH: Thats not replying, that is plain old `>` quoting.

07:49 <ifreund> yeah, matrix replies are much noisier

07:49 <p00f1> NickH: I don't reply to irc users, can't i reply to myself lol

07:51 <NickH> This is not a matrix thing? https://0x0.st/H1M_.png

07:51 <NickH> What irc client are you using?

07:52 <p00f1> > this is not a matrix thing

07:52 <p00f1> it is

07:52 <p00f1> > what irc client

07:52 <p00f1> they're using matrix, like me

07:52 <p00f1> > it is

07:52 <p00f1> i don't understand why it bothers you if i didn't reply to you though

07:53 <NickH> Just looks weird and spammy to me to see in irc.

07:57 <ifreund> yeah, it's not about being pinged or whatever, it's about mentally parsing the usually nonsensical matrix attempt to add context

07:57 <ifreund> <p00f1> "And the matrix river room is..." <- since the room already exists you just have to bridge them

07:57 <ifreund> the part in the quotes is entirely useless

07:58 <NickH> If I wanted stuff like that I go join the Hyprland people on Discord

07:58 <p00f1> that's weird, i'm sure it used to do it sensibly like

07:59 <p00f1> since the room already exists you just have to bridge them

07:59 <p00f1> > p00f: And the matrix river room is dead

07:59 <RZ_MJ[m]> I have a weird idea, but maybe I am not the first and this exists. Is there an application that fakes an output to the window manager/compositor, but instead of being a physical monitor, it displays its content within a window?

08:00 <ifreund> RZ_MJ[m]: depending on your use-case you could look into wayvnc + a vnc client

08:01 <p00f1> i think they want it on the same device?

08:02 <p00f1> isn't vncing yourself too inefficient - it paints the whole screen when i switch tags

08:06 <p00f1> "paint" as in it literally looks like someone painted it over with the new contents, top to bottom

08:11 <RZ_MJ[m]> I'll look into vnc. Yes, the usecase is on the same device. The idea is to have a "container" for windows which I then can move across physical monitors and their tags. Or in other words, having a nested river, but it is actually the same river. Just a harebrained thought though.

08:16 <ifreund> Yeah, I don't think it would be very satisfying for that use-case

08:17 <FireFly> I mean I sometimes use that style of reply on IRC to provide context, but only when the context is otherwise distant/might've been forgotten.. I think it's not necessarily the style that's the problem, but frequency it ends up being used with the bridged messages (I think it _does_ try to do just 'nick: reply' but only if it's the most recent message or so)

08:26 <NickH> I'd never even seen it before until quite recently.

08:27 <NickH> Mind you I only started using IRC again last year after about a 15 year break from it.

08:28 <NickH> Maybe I'm just old and grumpy :-)

08:33 <ifreund> FireFly: The problem is not the style so much as the fact that the quoted bit is usually worthless at best as it isn't chosen by a human

08:34 <ifreund> I often do "nick: RE that thing we were talking about, yada yada yada"

08:34 <NickH> That's what I do too. I don't even know how to the type of quoting that it being discussed here.

08:34 <ifreund> which is much easier for me at least to read since it is a totally normal english sentence

08:35 <FireFly> ifreund: yeah

08:38 <RZ_MJ[m]> NickH: Within matrix, the type of quoting being discussed using the reply function doesn't just quote, but allows jumping back to the context the quote came from.

08:39 <NickH> What "reply" function?

08:41 <FireFly> matrix has a reply functionality which basically annotates metadata which line it is a reply to

08:42 <NickH> So it really is a matrix thing not an irc thing.

08:42 <FireFly> I think there are some proposals for similar functinality on irc, but not a thing yet

08:42 <NickH> Burn it with fire, I say.

08:42 <FireFly> https://ircv3.net/specs/client-tags/reply.html

08:43 <NickH> Thanks for the link

08:43 <FireFly> I wouldn't mind having the metadata, clients can ignore it or render it unobtusely

08:44 <FireFly> but no strong feeling either way from my side, and at least things like matrix bridge would be less annoying if they relied on somthing like that instead of the above

15:10 <dagle> Hmmm. Wezterm isn't rendering correctly for me in the git version. It's like it thinks it's 80 characters wide and the tiled size at the same when spawned.

15:45 <dnkl> I think that's some kind of timing/performance thing. I get the same behavior with foot, when run under valgrind.