14:46 <elshize> I've finally decided to give voidlinux a go in a VM and I'm having issues starting river... I'm using the void package. I installed seatd and started it, but when I run river, I get "Could not connect to socket /run/seatd.sock: Permission denied". I'm sure it's not a river problem, and I'm just doing something wrong, but if there are void users here that could help direct me the right way, I'd

14:46 <elshize> appreciate it

14:47 <plumeus> elshize, https://old.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/mor7n5/getting_libseat_errors_when_starting_sway/ looks like what you're looking for

14:51 <kennylevinsen> if you want to use seatd you should just be in the _seatd group and make sure it's started

14:52 <plumeus> ah, yeah, https://docs.voidlinux.org/config/session-management.html#seatd

14:53 <plumeus> huh, Void wiki looks a lot more polished than when I last checked, which was probably around 2019

14:53 <kennylevinsen> (despite numerous posts on the internet, you never need to specify LIBSEAT_BACKEND outside development - libseat tries backends in order until one succeeds, specifying a specific backend just skips testing others and won't make anything work better)

14:59 <novakane> elshize: also in void you probably should not use river from the void package tbh, it is really outdated

15:00 <elshize> plumeus, kennylevinsen: thanks for the tips, I missed adding myself to _seatd so that's probably it

15:01 <elshize> novakane: yep, I noticed. I just wanted to play around for now though, should be fine :) I might compile upstream later

15:01 <plumeus> Wow, river is 0.1.1 in Void. I thought Isaac contributes to void.

15:01 <plumeus> And Zig is 0.8.1

15:02 <novakane> plumeus: the problem is that LLVM is not updated so zig is not updated and so is river :/

15:03 <plumeus> How did LLVM get in such a sad state?

15:07 <novakane> I guess it's a lot of works to do and nobody want/can to do it

15:09 <plumeus> Void always seemed to lack manpower. It's not a bad distro though.

15:25 <ifreund> plumeus: currently gcc is out of date enough that it can't build llvm15

15:25 <ifreund> they're working on it, I don't have time to help though

15:26 <plumeus> lol, the dependency tree is getting longer

15:26 <elshize> kennylevinsen: yeah, only adding to _seatd (and creating XDG_RUTIME_DIR) worked, thanks

15:26 <plumeus> I doubt it gets worse than not having GCC and LLVM, at least.

15:33 <elshize> ifreund: are you currently using void?

15:33 <ifreund> elshize: on my desktop glibc void yeah

15:33 <ifreund> trying out alpine on this laptop though

15:33 <ifreund> musl

15:34 <elshize> hah, these are the two distros I am experimenting with

15:34 <ifreund> musl's been a bit annoying for a few things though I haven't really looked into setting up a glibc chroot yet

15:34 <elshize> what's the major reason for you to use void? what does stand out in your opinion?

15:35 <ifreund> apk is way better than xbps though xbps-src is nicer than apline's build system

15:35 <ifreund> I prefer runit to openrc

15:35 <ifreund> really I wish chimera linux was mature enough to daily drive already, it looks like a pretty ideal mix of the two

15:36 <plumeus> What makes apk way better? apk is simple, I guess.

15:36 <ifreund> I find the UX of the CLI a lot nicer

15:37 <ifreund> and I like the /etc/apk/world file

15:37 <plumeus> I do like being able to just cat /etc/apk/world or edit the file directly and do apk update, iirc.

15:37 <plumeus> Ah, beat me to it

15:37 <n0r> What does that file do?

15:38 <plumeus> Just shows all packages installed in the system

15:38 <plumeus> and you can do apk update (or maybe it was upgrade) and it will install or uninstall according to how you defined the file

15:39 <novakane> ifreund: I don't know about alpine but on void gcompat works fine for me to the few annoying things with musl

15:39 <n0r> So similar to /etc/nixos/configuration.nix, but only handling installed software and nothing else?

15:39 <plumeus> Nothing complex like Nix expressions, yeah

15:40 <plumeus> Just for packages. There's stuff like /etc/apk/repos for repositories enabled and /etc/apk/interactive which changes how apk functions if the file exists.

15:40 <n0r> Oh yeah btw., the weird floating windows guy is back ;) but currently tries living with rivercarros monocle layout instead.

15:40 <plumeus> Personally, Nix/Guix has me hostage because I prefer the design a lot more than other distros but I'm not completely pleased.

15:41 <n0r> Same

15:41 <plumeus> Guix seems to have a nicer design philosophy but their documentation is poor and I don't feel too eager to learn mailinglists to submit patches or whatever

15:42 <ifreund> I like the ideas behind nix/guix but I don't like the systemd or the UX

15:42 <ifreund> the nix language is pretty annoying

15:43 <plumeus> The Nix language is honestly just bad. I never had to learn much of it but that's mostly because I'm afraid to bother learning.

15:43 <plumeus> It's a bad attempt at a functional language where all the glue is bash scripts...

15:44 <n0r> Guix wouldn't work for me, don't remember why. So Nix was the only declarative option left, not great (Nix language) but does its job. And I learned to like (not love) systemd. NixOS containers (based on systemd-nspawn) are pretty useful for me.

15:46 <plumeus> Guix confirmed that I really do hate GRUB. And they do weird stuff like overriding `cryptsetup` defaults to use LUKS1 instead of just writing proper docs like "consider using LUKS1 for system-wide encryption as GRUB doesn't support encrypted `/boot` with LUKS2."

15:46 <plumeus> I want full-disk encryption on my laptop... And my desktop hardware makes Guix quite annoying due to their software policies.

15:48 <n0r> Is there a guide on how to get river running on alpine? Got stuck when I tried a few months ago. Same with sway.

15:48 <plumeus> Pretty sure I had Sway working on Alpine before.

15:48 <plumeus> https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Sway

15:49 <plumeus> doesn't look too complex

15:50 <plumeus> but yeah, I do recommend enabling /etc/apk/interactive (just create an empty file there using touch or similar)

15:50 <n0r> I used that page. Maybe it was my only stupidity and I misread something.

15:50 <n0r> *only my

15:51 <plumeus> It will ask the user a y/n prompt after apk add or del, along with what kind of dependencies would be installed.

16:26 <ifreund> there's even a river wiki page: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/River

16:27 <plumeus> TIL that you have a blog page

16:27 <plumeus> or wait, pretty sure I've seen the blog page before

16:27 <plumeus> I just must have forgot

16:27 <ifreund> don't blame ya, it's been way too long since I posted anything

16:28 <plumeus> Oh yeah, I was wondering, how do you use waylock? With swayidle?

16:28 <ifreund> yup

16:44 <ifreund> novakane: just pushed zig-wayland's zig 0.10.0 branch to master fyi :)

16:45 <ifreund> and forgot to update ci of course...

16:47 <novakane> ifreund: nice, thanks \o/

16:47 <novakane> zig-pixman too?

16:48 <ifreund> just a minute :P

16:51 <novakane> I don't have a minute, I want to see my projects break right now! :P

16:51 <novakane> nah just kidding I let you have fun with the CI first :D

16:56 <ifreund> novakane: CI is fixed and zig-pixman is updated :)

16:58 <novakane> thank you!

16:59 <novakane> time to fix some std.fmt error like always with a new zig version :P

17:02 <plumeus> 0.10 was a weak update. Waiting for 0.11 to break as much as 0.6 -> 0.7 did.

17:51 <novakane> damn almost push without updating the CI of my projects too xD

18:06 <novakane> ah, still messed up, forgot to update to Wayland 1.21 lol

21:59 <leon-p> so turns out GTKs cursor theme fallback mechanism is borked. I accidentally still had configured my system for a theme not actually installed, and before GTK just used the standard xcursor fallback, but recently GTK windows just showed no cursor and randomly crashed. brilliant