<talismanick>
ifreund: I'm confused what's holding up LLVM (15, was it?) from being updated
<talismanick>
I believe the last comment on the PR said they needed to test it, and then... nothing
<talismanick>
nvm, 14
<talismanick>
It's such a shame Void doesn't have more maintainers
* talismanick
makes note of actually following up on reading through the contributing guidelines
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<talismanick>
ifreund: I can test the touchscreen PR soon - I just need to finish reconfiguring and backing up my system
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<mizzunet>
ifreund can river reload the init?
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<nor[m]1>
You could make a keybinding with something like "spawn init" and execute the init again.
<nor[m]1>
Or just run it again when you are editing it in the terminal anyways.
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<niksingh710>
is there any possible way to use Super L to move focus to Right and Super H to move focus Left?
<niksingh710>
i got the hang of stack layout but having movability of left and right would be a great option is there any way to acheive this?
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<novakane>
niksingh710: not currently, because views are in a list so you just go to prev or next
<novakane>
there was an open PR for this though iirc
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<tiosgz>
niksingh710: yea, the room is bridged to matrix (#river:libera.chat). but please keep using only the IRC feature set, as matrix-specific features don't translate nicely.
<nor[m]1>
tiosgz: niksingh710 is an IRC user though, or do I understand this wrong?
<tiosgz>
they asked a few times if there's a matrix room
<tiosgz>
i just hope that they read the logs :)
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<nor[m]1>
Oh right, was a while ago, didn't notice.
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<nor[m]1>
So far I only used river in floating mode. I now added in the tiling. I still can't get used to it. I generally love tiling (used sway a lot), but it's the automatic kind of tiling that confuses me. This is my first not-manual tiling window manager. Does someone have tips on "how to think about it" to not constantly wonder about windows jumping to the opposite half of the screen?
<ifreund>
nor[m]1: For me the thing that made it click was to stop caring very much what order windows are in the stack and just keep the ones I'm actively using at/near the top
<ifreund>
windows kinda naturally sort themselves by priority with heavy usage of the zoom command
<bw>
i think my main issue with automatic window management with vanilla rivertile is... i don't have enough screen space
<bw>
it always feels like my (non-main) windows are too small
<bw>
but man, river takes a lot of mental load off me compared to sway
<bw>
i just don't have to think about sizing and arranging windows anymore
<ifreund>
if I have more than 2 windows visible I pretty much only interact with the main window, the others are still large enough for me to tell what they are though so if I want to interact with them I just navigate down the stack and 'zoom' them to the main
<bw>
one feature request i have, though, for the distant future, is to let the tiling program place windows off-screen, or something along those lines
<bw>
i don't know if i'm allowed to obscure windows, but i'd need that too
<bw>
basically, i'd like to start stacking (rather than tiling) beyond 3 windows at a time
<ifreund>
bw: have you tried stacktile?
<bw>
not yet. there are a few i need to try when i get time
<nor[m]1>
Actually when in floating mode, I love the output edges being the window boundary. Makes much more sense to me.
<bw>
nor[m]1: it does make sense in floating mode, most of the time. though i wish it was an option to turn on/off
<bw>
ifreund: do you know how far off in the future the "major changes" to how layouts are managed is going to be?
<bw>
i remember y'all want to move more logic out of river
<ifreund>
bw: currently I'm spending most of my time pushing wlroots forward because I want wlroots 0.16.0 to be released sooner rather than later and have lots of nice things included
<bw>
makes sense
<ifreund>
After that's out, I'll be focused on getting river refactored to use wlr_scene, wlroots 0.16.0 has already got significant improvements over 0.15.0 there
<bw>
besides less/simpler code, what is the scene graph going to enable for river?
<ifreund>
then I'll start experimenting with river architecture changes to push as much policy as possible to a window manager client
<ifreund>
bw: It's just a far superior abstraction for implementing a wayland compositor, some things in river are currently WONTFIX because we don't have a scene graph
<ifreund>
it also brings full damage tracking essentially for free
<ifreund>
though there are some things not listed there I'd like to get in, for example adaptive sync support in wlr-output-management
<bw>
hmm yeah, there's hardly anything left
<ifreund>
one thing blocking 0.16 is a wayland release for high resolution scroll wheel support, which I think has either already happend today or is about to happen
<bw>
one detent moves farther than one press of up/down arrow
<bw>
(much farther)
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<leon-p>
oh, that's a different thing. That's scroll factor
<bw>
i always assumed i was doing something wrong... yeah, could be
<bw>
leon-p: what setting do i need to change for that?
<leon-p>
no idea, it's handled client-side
<bw>
to be fair, i probably need to buy a better mouse at some point
<bw>
leon-p: ewwww, what
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<leon-p>
it has to be, we /really/ don't want too much scroll handling in the server, if you recall what the synaptics driver did wrt to driver-level "smooth" / "kinetic" scrolling, you'll immediately see that client-side is the saner option
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<bw>
sure, but still, some sort of centralized configuration might be nice
<bw>
i guess that's always the issue linux has
<bw>
no centralized anything
<leon-p>
I mean, yeah. But that ship has sailed.
<leon-p>
centralized colour configuration would be nice, for example, so that you could have a live theme switcher without any hacks
<leon-p>
but we can't have nice things
<ifreund>
leon-p: would a default 1.0 floating point scroll magnitude multiplier in the server really be that bad?
<ifreund>
pretty sure sway has such a thing
<ifreund>
I don't have a use for it because my hardware/drivers seem to provide sane values
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<ifreund>
maybe the only reason sway has it is to work around insane hardware/drivers
<bw>
what mouse do you use?
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<ifreund>
I have a logitech "MX Master" I stole from my brother
<bw>
yeah, that's the one i need to get
<bw>
with the toggle between smooth and bumpy
<ifreund>
yeah, tis pretty nice
<bw>
i've got the G500 (MMO) mouse, because it's what i had lying around
<leon-p>
ifreund: it would be massively complex, considering how scrolling works (especially wrt virtual "clicks" and all devices in general the generate click events as well as offset events)
<bw>
the one with 12 extra buttons on the side
<leon-p>
I have a kensington "expert mouse" track ball. no more mouse pain in the wrist and hand
<bw>
weirdly i've never had wrist/hand pain
<bw>
not sure how i'm positioning my hand to make that the case
<leon-p>
well, I easiely spend 12++ hours a day either using a mouse or pen or other tool, so it probably comes from that
<bw>
i also need a mouse pad or something. my desk is too bumpy
<bw>
leon-p: same
<ifreund>
leon-p: hmm, I don't really know how scrolling works. I was imagining there's some value we send to clients that we could just multiply by a constant but I guess things aren't that simple
<bw>
leon-p: i have really big hands, so when i hold small things, my hands hurt
<ifreund>
I had some hand weirdness from typing a while back which went away after switching to a much more ergonomic keyboard. Haven't had problems with Mouse RSI yet but I also don't use the mouse a ton
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<ifreund>
Keeping my fingers strong through bouldering and bass guitar likely helps as well :)
<leon-p>
:D
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<bw>
oh yeah... my fingers are really strong, even though i stopped doing climbing years ago
<bw>
"... life is the shape of your favourite stonefruit"
<ifreund>
yeah, that tendon strength isn't gonna fade quickly
<bw>
i... don't know what my favorite stonefruit is, nor its shape
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<nor[m]1>
Tiling gives me a good use for number row keybindings now... With Shift setting ratio, without shift setting main count :D
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<bw>
ok, i just ordered a new mouse. thanks for the push
<bw>
nor[m]1: i wish keyboards had more modifiers...
<ifreund>
qmk firmware is pretty neat
<bw>
how do i avoid conflicts between: 1) window manager, 2) terminal, 3) shell, 4) editor
<bw>
ifreund: yeah, i've got a custom QMK firmware
<nor[m]1>
bw: Thats why I hacked an additional modifier to caps xD
<bw>
i should do something like that. the main "interesting" change i have is that double-taping the function keys does VT switching
<ifreund>
hmm, I guess QMK only really supports the classic 4 modifiers. Coulda sworn it would let you do more
<bw>
my biggest problem is that my fingers are pretty dumb
<bw>
ifreund: what are the other modifiers, how do you send them?
<bw>
i was under the impression USB was a more limiting factor
<ifreund>
bw: I don't know much about USB, but libxkbcommon supports at least 8 mods, maybe up to 32
<ifreund>
wlroots and river support 8 somewhat standardize modifiers
<bw>
i've got a hyper7 i haven't put keycaps on. if anything has room for 8+ modifiers, it's the hyper7
<nor[m]1>
I know of Shift, Control, Super, Alt and AltGr. What other modifiers exist?
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<bw>
dunno if these are "real" or just combinations of others, but there's also hyper and meta
<bw>
but i think meta at least means the same thing as alt?
<bw>
and i thought hyper was just a combination of multiple of the normal modifiers
<tiosgz>
also, iirc, numlock is mod2 or somehow related to it
<bw>
i definitely need to revisit either my qmk config, or my (linux?) keyboard layout selection
<ifreund>
I don't even know what I'd do with more than 4 modifiers tbh. There are what, 16 different combinations you can make with those?
<ifreund>
I think I use less than half of that
<nor[m]1>
ifreund: Well... First, combinations are not always possible. For example, my keyboard won't register Caps+Shift+X. Combinations with 3 Modifiers fail even more often.
<bw>
but also, it's hard to press some combinations
<nor[m]1>
Second, I NEED these xD. a-z are my 26 tags, combined with 4 Modifier Combinations for all tag commands.
<ifreund>
nor[m]1: I don't use Caps as a modifier, but I haven't run into any issues with the basic 4 ctrl, alt, shift, logo/gui/meta/mod4/whatever
<bw>
ifreund: i don't type in the way i'm supposed to, with my fingers on the home row
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<ifreund>
I think that's somewhat orthagonal to home row mods, it would still make it easier to press all the available combinations
<bw>
my fingers are way too stoopid for home row mods..
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<bw>
i can barely avoid double-typing n sometimes
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<ifreund>
fair enough :D
<leon-p>
FWIW rivers example config uses at least five different modifier levels and most of those are combinations. Some are slightly awkward, but overall it works fine.
<nor[m]1>
Home row mods is really interesting to me. I might enter that rabbit hole with some time at hand. I don't have a special keyboard though, so it would need to be done the software way...
<leon-p>
and yes, numlock is also a modifier
<leon-p>
at least technically, it won't really work like the typical ones with most xkb layouts
<bw>
nor[m]1: the software way is no fun, if even possible
<bw>
definitely get a special keyboard ;)
<nor[m]1>
I use a laptop. I don't really want to carry arround an additional keyboard of almost the same size with it xD
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<bw>
bummer
<leon-p>
you can re-flash the keyboard firmware on some older thinkpads
<nor[m]1>
T450 in my case.
<nor[m]1>
I might end up just going down the modal keybindings path though..
<nor[m]1>
Hitting "menu, a, b, c" in sequence, creating a state machine with the river init.
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<bw>
ifreund: one thing on my bucket list is to write some keyboard firmware in zig
<bw>
if you ever have that itch...
<ifreund>
bw: I certainly wouldn't mind having my keyboard run on Zig, but the existing software works well enough that it's not a priority for me
<ifreund>
got too many itchier itches to scratch xD
<Shinyzenith[m]>
ifreund:hi do you mind if I send a patch incorporating the gles2 renderer into the wlroots bindings ? Would help me a lot to develop my compositor.
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<ifreund>
Shinyzenith[m]: you don't need my permission to open a PR on github, anyone is welcome to do so
<Shinyzenith[m]>
Cool, thanks.
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<waste37>
hi, is there a way to get via terminal command some info about current focused/existing output/view/tags? If not what do you think about commands like list_outputs or list_focused_tags being added to riverctl?
<leon-p>
waste37: there is a lot of information exposed via protocol extensions
<ifreund>
Modest: on the master branch map as a -layout option you may be interested in
<Modest>
cool
<Modest>
thanks
<Modest>
maybe need create 0.4 ver? )))
<ifreund>
Modest: after wlroots 0.16 is released I will tag river 0.2.0
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<Modest>
wow, nice. And thanks for hard work. Best WM for Wayland!..
<Shinyzenith[m]>
ifreund: I've submitted a patch but I just want to preface it with the fact that I don't know much zig so please lmk if I messed up anything!
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<Modest>
ifreund: If i set keys for terminal win(logo)+'b' for example on Dvorak (in qwerty 'n') and if I change layout on rus ЙЦУКЕН, keys combination works? or on ЙЦУКЕН my keys shortcuts move to QWERTY? I forgot, maybe month ago I see pull request for fix this problem... Am I right?
<Modest>
And who know about release date new wlroots?
<Modest>
😜👀
<ifreund>
Modest: you can create layout-independent mappings using `map -layout N` on master branch, there's documentation in the man page. I'm pretty sure it makes the thing you want possible
<ifreund>
wlroots 0.16.0 will be released when it's ready
<ifreund>
probably like a month or so
<Modest>
thanks again. This night for compile time and testing... Native Wayland environment!
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<nor[m]1>
I am not sure if I understand the namespace part of the layout configuration correctly. Is this for switching between different layout generators?
<bw>
nor[m]1: the namespace is something the layout generator chooses when it connects to the wayland socket (basically)
<bw>
AFAIK, it’s usually the chosen to be the same as the program itself, but that’s not required
<bw>
The program is saying “hey, I provide this layout”
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<bw>
So if you run two different layout generators, you can select which one you want using that name.
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<bw>
Does that answer your question, nor[m]1?
<nor[m]1>
I think so, yeah. Thanks bw
<ifreund>
nor[m]1: yeah, switching between layout generators was the original intent though it seems that most people just run a single layout generator with multiple modes these days
<nor[m]1>
Wait, I'm nor[m]1 on IRC now? Thats like more suffix than name xD
<abigrock>
Does anyone know if there's a way to prevent certain windows from floating that aren't added to the float filter? This happens automatically with Spotify for example.
<bw>
Yep, very matrix
<nor[m]1>
ifreund: So I could have two rivertile instances with different properties and toggle?
<bw>
abigrock: hmmm
<bw>
nor[m]1: you’d have to patch one of them to send a different namespace name, I think
<bw>
Unless it has a flag to override that?
<novakane>
yeah you can't have multi instance of the same layout generator
<bw>
You can, but only if it was written with that in mind
<novakane>
abigrock: is that only with spotify, It did this to me, I think it's just because it's trash lol
<bw>
I bet a patch would be accepted adding a flag for that
<bw>
Spotify the app is definitely trash. The service is great, though.
<abigrock>
novakane Yeah, so far just Spotify.
<ifreund>
abigrock: our heuristics to determine that a window is a "popup" style window that should float don't seem to work for spotify yeah
<novakane>
bw yeah but I don't think any layout generator do that, I don't really see why you need this though
<novakane>
I mean I don't really see any use case for this
<ifreund>
eventually we'll have a way to override that, for now I personally just deal with the minor annoyance and use my keybind to tile it
<bw>
One with gaps and one without, maybe?
<ifreund>
it's not something that I open/close very often...
<bw>
I’d love some kind of callback when a window opens, to specify things like tiling/floating and tags
<novakane>
bw it makes more sense to have runtime command in the layout generator than using two with different config imo
<abigrock>
Yeah, reading the IRC chat history, looks like there's been a few questions about it. It seems a patch as mentioned by Anderson-D might fix it: http://ix.io/3IKb/diff
<bw>
fair enough
<bw>
When is electron going to support wayland…
<nor[m]1>
novakane: Switching namespace and tag in the same keybinding, so the tag with 6 views keeps its main count of 3 and the tag with 3 views keeps its main count of 1 would be my usecase.
<bw>
I’m just annoyed with all the log spam xwayland barfs in the river logs
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<novakane>
nor[m]1: so it's more a per tags layout generator that you want no?
<nor[m]1>
Thinking...
<bw>
Has anyone made really good lua bindings for zig yet?
<nor[m]1>
Yeah multiple Layout states for the same tag is not really what I need.
<nor[m]1>
But hey, I generally need to get used to general dynamic tiling anyways, I might get used to the "layout changes affect all tags" approach as well. My brain is currently still very sway-wired (layout varies between workspaces) after all.
<ifreund>
If I wanted to interface between zig and lua I might instead use LuaJIT's ffi
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<leon-p>
nor[m]1: it's possible for a layout generator to implement different layouts per tag. It's /slightly/ hacky (see #383), but I did it in my own: https://git.sr.ht/~leon_plickat/stacktile
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<leon-p>
since it came up earlier, the new wayland release is apparently out now
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<fifty-six>
I might be missing something obvious in the docs but how do you set screen scaling/position? I can do it through wdisplays by hand but is there a way through riverctl or something?