cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: #pypy PyPy, the flexible snake | IRC logs: and | Matti: I made a bit of progress, the tests now only segfault towards the end
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<marmoute> Hello pypy, people. Did you saw our poll about a Mercurial conference ?
<fijal> marmoute: it's probably the only time in recent memory where I see the world "poll" and it's actually useful ;-)
<fijal> well, I'll probably not come (but maybe) but even possibly useful!
<marmoute> Might be a good opportunity for a Fontainebleau visit
<fijal> indeed
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<leshaste> hi mattip
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<mattip> hi
<mattip> leshaste: hi
<leshaste> mattip, if you have a few moments I can walk through the matplotlib problem
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<mattip> ok
<leshaste> I have a virtual environment and can see python --version
<leshaste> [PyPy 7.3.9 with GCC 11.2.0]
<leshaste> Python 3.8.13 (7.3.9+dfsg-1, Apr 01 2022, 21:41:47)
<leshaste> pip install matplotlib now runs without error
<mattip> cool
<leshaste> I make a script
<leshaste> import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
<leshaste> plt.plot([2,3])
<leshaste> run it with python and get
<leshaste> UserWarning: Matplotlib is currently using agg, which is a non-GUI backend, so cannot show the figure.
<leshaste> if I try to fix this by adding
<leshaste> import matplotlib
<leshaste> matplotlib.use('tkagg')
<leshaste> I get ModuleNotFoundError: No module named '_tkinter'
<leshaste> with a lot of errors below that
<leshaste> mattip, do you know how to fix this?
<tumbleweed> leshaste: that looks like a debian pypy3, so apt install pypy3-tk
<tumbleweed> (if you'd tried to import it yourself, you'd have got a more useful error pointing you to that)
<leshaste> tumbleweed, ok if I do that I now get
<leshaste> this is on ubuntu 22.04
<leshaste> my point is really that it would be great if the web page had a work through for how to get matplotlib working
<tumbleweed> OK, that looks like our issue then
<leshaste> as this must be a common thing people want to d
<leshaste> o
<leshaste> tumbleweed, ok thanks
<leshaste> I mean a walk through
<leshaste> mattip, looks like you know all about this already :)
<leshaste> am I right that there isn't a section of the pypy website where you can look up common modules and see if they are currently supported?
<tumbleweed> a wiki could make more sense for that (if you don't want to be on the hook for maintaining it)
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<leshaste> tumbleweed, yes
<leshaste> the pypy website isn't really up to the standard of the code itself. I mean pypy is very important and widely used
<leshaste> but the website really doesn't look like it is
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<mattip> sorry, had to go do something. I guess the problem is there is dissonance between using the debian pypy3 and using "pip install"
<mattip> I assume the same thing would happen if you create a system python3 venv, and do pip install matplotlib, this is not pypy-specific
<mattip> debian would probably say "use apt to manage packages", so you could do "apt install python3-matplotlib"
<mattip> but there is no pypy3-matplotlib package as far as I know
<mattip> most of my efforts now go to supporting conda forge as a distribution platfrom for pypy, maybe the web site should stress that more
<mattip> there now are over 1000 packages available there, all built with a consistent set of options and installation experience
<leshaste> mattip, I downloaded pypy3 directly from the pypy website.
<mattip> then something is off. You started with the version strin
<mattip> Python 3.8.13 (7.3.9+dfsg-1, Apr 01 2022, 21:41:47)
<leshaste> mattip, let me do this again to check
<mattip> which I am pretty sure comes from debian
<leshaste> downloading...
<leshaste> python --version
<leshaste> Python 3.8.13 (4b1398fe9d76ad762155d03684c2a153d230b2ef, Mar 29 2022, 07:08:24)
<leshaste> [PyPy 7.3.9 with GCC 10.2.1 20210130 (Red Hat 10.2.1-11)]
<leshaste> I get the same threading error
<mattip> yes, try this fix
<leshaste> now I remember... previously I was using pypy from
<mattip> or avoid the 3.6 versions until the fix comes out in 3.6.2
<leshaste> could you walk me through how to apply the patch please. I have never done it before
<leshaste> I am trying matplotlib 3.5.3
<mattip> cool
<leshaste> now I get "This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly."
<leshaste> I'll paste the full error
<tumbleweed> mattip: there is no pypy3-matplotlib, but there could be
<tumbleweed> mattip: but no, debian doesn't say go use apt. We say it's your system, we're just trying to help you. We'd probably recommend that you install matplotlib in a pypy virtualenv
<leshaste> mattip, would it be better if I opened a bug report?
<mattip> tumbleweed: sorry, I am a bit on edge today: too many frustrating bugs. How could we get a better error message when matplotlib fails to find _tk, and how can we get a pypy3-matplotlib?
<mattip> leshaste: yes please
<leshaste> mattip, ok will do. Thanks for looking at this
<tumbleweed> mattip: FWIW 7.3.9+dfsg-1 sounds like Ubuntu 22.04 main archive, not the PyPy PPA. But *I think* that we didn't have a version published for 22.04 in the PPA, because the main archive version was new enough
<tumbleweed> anyway enough hair splitting :)
<tumbleweed> back to your question. I've not put any effort into bringing up any pypy3-$foo packages yet. We'd probably start by filing a bug against the matplotlib source package, asking for it. Let me do that right now...
<mattip> cool, thanks
<mattip> please link me in somehow so I can learn to do this too
<tumbleweed> I'm not sure exactly what swallowed the error in your scenario there, but if you try to import tkinter you *should* get a helpful error
<leshaste> tumbleweed, I see 7.3.9+dfsg-5~ppa1~ubuntu22.04.1 at
<tumbleweed> yeah, published this morning
<tumbleweed> (for the sha3 security issue)
<tumbleweed> still waiting for canonical security people to publish the update to the main archive
<tumbleweed> mattip: further thought... we need numpy first
<leshaste> ah :)
<mattip> right
<tumbleweed> same maintainer
<tumbleweed> (the debian bug tracking system is just driven by speciallly formatted emails. Rather arcane, but simple enough to interact with)
<leshaste> why do you want separate numpy packaging? I mean pip install numpy works well. What am I missing?
<tumbleweed> pip install works well in your virtualenv
<tumbleweed> but system packages can only depend on system packages
<leshaste> ah the problem is conflicting
<leshaste> got you
<mattip> thanks for the bug
<mattip> report to get numpy
<tumbleweed> as to more practical things ways to deal with the tkinter import failure, I'd suggest that matplotlib carry a patch to handle that better
<tumbleweed> I haven't tried to reproduce it here, but splitting out tk is a common thing that distros do in python
<tumbleweed> so handling it is probably good for the user-experience
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<mattip> lesshaste: still around?
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<mattip> lesshaste: when I create a virtualenv on linux, I see a symlink from <venv>/lib/tk8.5 -> <download>/lib/tk8.5
<mattip> if you don't, then maybe update your virtualenv, or use "pypy/bin/pypy -m venv " to create it
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