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<taleon>
I have now also joined the Matrix chat room. It's more practical for traveling than IRC, although I actually prefer IRC. My nick in the Matrix is `@cr` and not `taleon`. So don't be surprised. :-)
<abu[7]>
Ah, you are cr then?
<taleon>
Yes
<abu[7]>
Great
<abu[7]>
It would be nice if Matrix were more widely accepted
<abu[7]>
But I agree that for such technical discussions IRC is better
<abu[7]>
Travelling is no problem, I have IRC running in tmux sessions on a Debian server
<taleon>
That's true.
<taleon>
Same here. tmux+irssi.
<abu[7]>
ok
<abu[7]>
I use a pil client
<taleon>
What else :-)
<taleon>
Under which license is PicoLisp and the documentation? Is it allowed to translate the documentation into German for your own learning purposes and make this translation available online to other users?
<abu[7]>
It is a MIT/X11 license
<abu[7]>
no limitations :)
<abu[7]>
Cool, you also joined the mailing list
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<abu[7]>
Hi beneroth! Welcome back!
<beneroth>
heya :)
<abu[7]>
taleon: Yöü said to translate to German, so are you in Germany too?
<taleon>
Ja :)
<taleon>
I don't have a problem with English, but I think in German in my head and that makes it easier for me to learn.
<abu[7]>
True, but translating all that stuff is a lot of work
<abu[7]>
And sometimes technical docs in German are even harder to read
<abu[7]>
as all the terms are English
<taleon>
That's true. I was more concerned with the license, whether something like that would be allowed at all.
<abu[7]>
Yeah, no problem
<beneroth>
the documentation is also under MIT, right?
<abu[7]>
yep
<beneroth>
also kann man alles damit machen, einfach immer 1) dranschreiben dass die (unveränderten) Sachen von Alex / Software Lab sind, 2) nicht behaupten es selber erfunden zu haben.
<abu[7]>
Ich weiss nichtmal, ob 1 und 2 nicht auch erlaubt sind
<beneroth>
attributierung muss gemacht werden
<abu[7]>
Ok, gut
<beneroth>
voll in Ordnung so
<taleon>
Lizenzen sind immer so eine Sache. Wenn Namen wie z.B. `PicoLisp` geschuetzt sind, muss man aufpassen.
<beneroth>
das ist dann Markenschutz, nicht Lizenzen
<taleon>
Ja, aber dann wirds komplizierter.
<taleon>
Darum frage ich lieber vorher. :-)
<beneroth>
PicoLisp ist afaik nicht wirklich geschützt, würde allerdings evtl. Sinn machen.
<beneroth>
ja das ist gut dass Du fragst :)
<beneroth>
bei PicoLisp ist an sich nichts speziell zu beachten, egal ob kommerziell oder nicht-kommerziell, einfach Attributierung dran lassen.
<abu[7]>
Genau
<abu[7]>
Hmm, better stay with English here ...
<taleon>
Aye
<beneroth>
nur readline sehe ich immer noch problematisch für gewisse Spezialfälle. PicoLisp benutzt readline für terminal, und readline ist GPL. Kein problem wenn Du es nicht selber als gesamtpaket auslieferst, aber ich denke wenn man z.B. ein Hardwaregerät mit PicoLisp inkl. readline machen würde, dann wäre das Hardwaregerät bei Verkauf GPL...
<beneroth>
vielleicht könnte man dann readline weglassen, wenn man eh kein terminal/debug-terminal auf der Kiste braucht, aber etwas blöd
<beneroth>
T, back to english
<abu[7]>
Right, including libreadline changes the item to GPL
<beneroth>
ah problem for hardware appliances. not really in any other cases, I think.
<abu[7]>
PilBox is such an item
<beneroth>
oh right
<abu[7]>
There is no clear licence for PilBox I think
<abu[7]>
Ah
<abu[7]>
No, the sources of PilBox have a GPL licence
<abu[7]>
So should be OK
<beneroth>
ah pilbox is GPL, also your parts?
<beneroth>
what about penti?
<abu[7]>
Penti has no dependent stuff
<abu[7]>
just Google
<beneroth>
I'm still wondering about Google complaining about penti. I think they have more likely a case with pilbox than penti, probably they haven't noticed.
<abu[7]>
yes, I expected that too
<abu[7]>
Maybe they complain about PilBox later
<abu[7]>
BTW, the Penti complaints stopped
<beneroth>
really? so you can keep it in PlayStore?
<abu[7]>
I removed the permission for people under 18 :D
<beneroth>
when did it stop? with new version? or just suddenly?
<beneroth>
lol
<beneroth>
also a solution
<abu[7]>
yeah
<beneroth>
makes no sense
<abu[7]>
So Penti is dangerous for children
<beneroth>
yeah. it's evil to show the idea of universal computing and alternatives, instead of closed-off boxed computing from walled gardens :P
<abu[7]>
T
<abu[7]>
The issue is more involved
<abu[7]>
Seems that Google did not understand Penti
<abu[7]>
They said they could not install it to test the family policy requirements
<beneroth>
but the complain was about sideloading, no? when there is actually no sideloading
<abu[7]>
Only "installation issue"
<abu[7]>
I asked for more details, but no useful response
<abu[7]>
always just "installation issue"
<beneroth>
the best way to deal with Google trouble is making a blog post about it and get it high on hackernews, so some googlers notice it and take care of it internally. I don't think this is warranted here, but when needed maybe tankf33der with his higher HN rating could pull such a thing off.
<abu[7]>
So changing to above 18 removed the need to check for family policies
<beneroth>
abu[7], probably you interacted with a bot all the time, no human in the loop.
<abu[7]>
Probably
<abu[7]>
So the mails had a human name
<abu[7]>
"Virat"
<beneroth>
abu[7], yeah ok solution. it's unlikely someone under 18 uses penti, and if someone does, they probably know how to circumvent that 18-barrier anyway :P
<abu[7]>
yep
<taleon>
Ich habe keine Ahnung was penti ist und kann mangels Playstore auch nicht nachschauen. Klingt aber interessant. ;-)
<taleon>
Arr english, sorry
<abu[7]>
It is a virtual chorded keyboard for Android-like systems
<abu[7]>
You can install the APK without PlayStore
<taleon>
404 :)
<taleon>
wrong copy & paste. html not htm
<abu[7]>
:)
<taleon>
Looks interesting. I'll test it with the apk.
<abu[7]>
It needs some practicing to use it
<abu[7]>
I'm writing all that here with Penti
<abu[7]>
to be precise, I write everything with Penti :)
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<taleon>
Hm somehow the apk cannot be installed. My smartphone always wants to unzip it.
<taleon>
Normally I have no problem with apks.
<abu[7]>
I use termux usually to install, but Chrome should work fine
<abu[7]>
Is it a Samsung phone?
<abu[7]>
And: Penti needs at least Android 7
<taleon>
No, a Google Pixel 6a with GrapheneOS (ungoogled and hardened Android 14)
<abu[7]>
Perfect
<taleon>
I have already installed several apks by hand. That's why I'm wondering. :-)
<abu[7]>
Pixel gives no problem. My daugters have Pixels
<abu[7]>
Do you have Termux installed?
<abu[7]>
then you can 'termux-share x.apk'
<taleon>
strangely enough, the apk is called `pentiKeyboard.apk.zip` when downloaded. When I download it on the PC, no .zip is displayed.
<abu[7]>
Strange indeed
<abu[7]>
How did you download it?
<taleon>
Ok, problem found. Just renamed the file without .zip.
<abu[7]>
ok :)
<taleon>
With Vanadium, a hardened Chrome browser.
<abu[7]>
And did you allow it to install packages in the settings?
<taleon>
Yes. This is probably a new security setting somewhere to make it more difficult to accidentally install apks by attaching a .zip. I'll have to do some research to see if there have been any changes.
<abu[7]>
ok
<taleon>
Ok, I have selected Penti as the input method. Now a Penti logo is displayed. Circles can now be seen. I'll have a look at it tonight when my wife is in bed. :-)
<taleon>
See you later or tomorrow then.
<abu[7]>
Yes, see you!
<abu[7]>
I also stop for today
<abu[7]>
Ha!! Found a way :)
<abu[7]>
Used the Android File Manager to move .profile to somewhere else. Now Termux starts again :)
<abu[7]>
Perfecw :)
<abu[7]>
Perfect :)
<abu[7]>
Just for your info. I can now sleep in peace.
<abu[7]>
oops, wrong channel. Please ignore the last 5 messages!