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<kof673>
> cant you replace the WM on a mac old next stuff i think let you (or you could) do a few things with the login screen at least, maybe just the graphic, do not recall. i'm sure it has mutated if not been replaced in the past ~20-25 years, just objective-c surely *in theory* allowed overriding all kinds of things (again, other langs nowadays too...)
<kof673>
this is just to say, in theory it was all very interceptor pattern-ish at some point.....
<kof673>
not unlike the xz thing <runs>
<childlikempress>
the xz thing was malicious actors getting to run code on your computer + no language-level fine-grained object capabilities
<childlikempress>
if it hadn't been ifunc, it would have been somethign else
<kof673>
well there was a selinux way to block it but yeah re: "no language-level [...]"
<kof673>
i just meant that is one reason maybe "mac" stuff is locked down a little :D
<childlikempress>
at the system level, unix is a capability-safe programming language, but the granule is 'process', which is too coarse
<childlikempress>
inter-process communication is slow and unergonomic
<childlikempress>
so it doesn't scale down nearly far enough. you could put always put xz/whatever in its own process rather than link to liblzma, but there comes a point past which that's not workable
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<bslsk05>
wiki.osdev.org: ARM Paging - OSDev Wiki
<junon>
I'm getting the sense that recursive mapping on ARM isn't preferred? I also flatly do not understand what that last paragraph is saying lol.
<junon>
Are direct maps more prevalent on ARM?
<heat_>
direct maps are more prevalent everywhere
<junon>
really! so the memory tradeoff isn't as important in the end, I assume
<heat_>
the main concern is usually more about security
<heat_>
but direct maps are really a lot more straight forward, and a lot faster
<junon>
Right, that was my next question. If I did a DM in the lower half, and whenever a userspace program is running, those mappings are just pulled straight out, correct?
<junon>
What are the security concerns with that?
<heat_>
yes
<heat_>
the solution here is
<heat_>
>If I did a DM in the lower half
<heat_>
dont
<heat_>
the security concerns are more of a "everything's mapped, so if you have a read/write primitive you can write to anywhre/anything that's directly mapped"
<heat_>
which is true
<junon>
right, though if they're not mapped at all, then no userspace process would ever be able to access them, right?
<junon>
I feel like TLB cache thrashing would become a problem with a lower-half direct map.
<junon>
So is it just a matter of using e.g. supervisor-only page configs?
<junon>
and mapping into the higher half?
<heat_>
but you don't do lower-half direct maps
<heat_>
"then no userspace process would ever be able to access them" except if you have a read/write primitive in the kernel
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<junon>
I'm not sure I understand, are you talking about if the kernel has a bug that allows userspace to exploit e.g. a system call or something?
<heat_>
yes
<heat_>
if you're able to get a read/write primitive (a way to read/write to a random place at your will), you can write to the entire memory
<junon>
But in theory that's also possible with a recursive memory map anyway at that point, right?
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<heat_>
junon, yes but the attack surface is diminished
<zid>
and you could randomize it if you wanted :D
<zid>
1/256 chance!
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<Ermine>
I guess uefi multiboot2 bootloader can't set screen to PixelBltOnly mode?
<zid>
your uefi can boot mb2?
<zid>
mine only boots gpt partitions
<zid>
by looking for boot.exe
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<heat_>
Ermine, it can, it just wont be able to give you a linear fb
<Ermine>
so os will need to use GOP's Blt
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<heat_>
you can't do that
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<Ermine>
Yay, linux 6.8 got my wifi adapter fixed
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<siak>
Ermine: Nice.
<heat_>
if you were using debian you'd need to wait like 4 years for that fix
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<Ermine>
that's why i don't use debian
<gog>
hi
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<Ermine>
hi gog
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<nikolar>
Hello
<zid>
shh we're on high alert for insurgents
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<geist>
junon: also that page was for armv7, for armv8 the page tables changed, and i'm fairly certain they're not recursive mapping compatible
<geist>
there are fundamental differences in the inner vs leaf note entries that it hink would not work
<geist>
well, okay, i think with long format it *sort* of works, but i remember talking about it here and mapping it out and i think it will break
<geist>
like it'll work in a simple case, if you dont use any of the optional features, but as soon as you do some of the upper page table bits start to get used for other purposes
<geist>
and then i think it gets incompatible pretty quickly
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<gog>
osdev
<mjg>
OH
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<shikhin>
osdev
<nikolapdp>
OSDEV
<Ermine>
O S D E V
<heat_>
ohsdev
<mjg>
i'm triggered
<mjg>
i tried to use an os but they don't ship an image
<mjg>
you have to compile everything yourself
<nikolapdp>
is that serenity os
<mjg>
ya
<nikolapdp>
lol had the same issue
<nikolapdp>
for some reason they don't provide weekly iso or something
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<Ermine>
openbsd 7.5 got released
<Ermine>
mjg: COMPILE ONYX
* kof673
.oO( ship a bootstrap image...whereby, they must then compile things themself )
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<heat_>
the best part about compiling onyx is writing the instructions you wish you could've read
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<Ermine>
better than shitty BSPs with no adequate instructions
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<geist>
i should compile onyx on a VAX
<gog>
onvax
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