<bslsk05>
cliffle.com: The server chose violence - Cliffle
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<GeDaMo>
Nice :)
<vdamewood>
beep
<kof673>
"we keep finding operations that really can’t fail. Setting a GPIO pin, for example" # yeah, but have you ever set a GPIO pin on <insert substance here> (across a network for the metaphor)
<kof673>
that is not to nitpick that example, but a good reason why everything might actually "really can fail"
<kof673>
if something is "network transparent" failure is always an option surely
<GeDaMo>
Wouldn't that be the network failing, not the pin setting?
<nortti>
hopefully setting a GPIO pin is not network transparent
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* kof673
sees plan9 glenda shed a single tear
<kof673>
yes network, but should the caller know something goes across a network or not?
<kof673>
well, virtual device then for another case
<kof673>
a simulated GPIO pin done in software
<kof673>
i'm still reading, have not decided yet on the general idea
<kof673>
for a vague handwavey analogy, foo(struct thing * t, size_t i) foo() validates each record of t[]. should it fail at the first problem and e.g. return the failing index and reason? or continue checking the other elements, and e.g. return/set a bit array of failing elements and reasons somewhere as well? this i think is more what should the caller know, or should they have to call foo() again and again potentially to se
<kof673>
e which records are actually invalid. and a question of how resource-intensive it is to check a record perhaps. is the information useless if any part is bad, or can the caller still use the "good" elements?
<kof673>
i don't know, not accusing the link of doing so, just hard for me to decide on a one-size-fits-all rule
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<kof673>
or, a compiler finds a syntax error. same deal, fail immediately, or keep going, assuming that possible further error messages are more useful than not?
<kof673>
there is that rfc saying too "be liberal in what you accept, conservative in what you send"
<mjg>
that really sucks, does not it
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<mjg>
but then again, from interop perspective it is probably unavoidable
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<nortti>
while it's pretty hard to retrofit strictness onto deployed protocols, I do want to say newer protocols tend to be quite strict from the beginning
<mjg>
t does not matter how strict the protocol is
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<mjg>
if the leading implementation (for example showed down the throat by microsoft) is doing stupid shit, that's what you have to support
<nortti>
true, but strict protocols at least admit strict implementations
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<kof673>
agree with both; it seems double-sided to me: interop goes up if you are flexible, but then you are "encouraging bad behavior" arguably i.e. flaky things never get fixed, because they work "well enough"
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<zid>
Is it linguistics time yet?
<zid>
calque is a loan-word and loan-word is a calque.
<GeDaMo>
zid: been reading Reddit? :P
<zid>
ofc
<zid>
GeDaMo what weird puzzle today
<GeDaMo>
Was it?
<zid>
huh
<zid>
I don't know any weird puzzles called was it
<zid>
I guess I'll just do squardle and wordle until you find me something
* vdamewood
plays Squirtle
<zid>
There's a squirdle
<zid>
where you have to guess a pokerman
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<zid>
but I only know like 2 gens so I can't really play it
<zid>
good news, whatever the answer is, it isn't in my dictionary, I checked
<zid>
oh, fuck you GeDaMo
<GeDaMo>
:D
<GeDaMo>
That was my response too :P
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<nikolapdp>
lol
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<heat>
bazingle
<gog>
rust
<zid>
asp.net
<gog>
shut up
<mjg>
web.dev
<zid>
It all returns to nothing, it just keeps tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down
<gog>
i'm not a webdev, i'm a temporarily embarassed osdev
<zid>
gog have you considered letting the boundary of your psyche erode and becoming one with the sea of consciousness?
<zid>
dirac would bepleased
<gog>
i just need a heroic dose of psilocybin
<zid>
or a spear of longinus
<gog>
is this an anime reference
<gog>
is this EVANGELION
<zid>
ofc it's evanlgeion :P
<gog>
mmm LCL
<zid>
I only infact, speak in advanced evangelion memes
<zid>
heat's over here playing power rangers and shouting AT FIELD! at other kids, I am figuring out how to compress the soul of my dead wife into a point mass
<gog>
gendo ikari is a weird fucken dude
<gog>
i guess every character in that show is dealing with extreme trauma
<zid>
He misses his wife, she was nice to him even though he's a dickhead
<zid>
yui: "I can fix him!"
<zid>
yea sure you can, get in the robot
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<heat>
i feel sick
<heat>
i've just argued *for* mouse support inclusion in OVMF
<heat>
what's wrong with me
<zid>
is it nice and laggy
<zid>
like every single mouse impl in any bios I've ever used
<heat>
probably
<zid>
perfect
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<zid>
4Hz is a lovely way to use a mouse
<heat>
tbh i don't understand why firmware mouses suck
<zid>
just the crappy software redraw speed I think
<zid>
5fps -> 200ms of input lag and choppy as fuck
<heat>
mine feels floaty and the sensitivity was clearly designed for the touchpad :D
<zid>
and yea, probably wrong sensitivity
<zid>
all combined is a thoroughly miserable experience
<zid>
GOP should add hw mouse, rather than ovmf adding an impl for a shitty software one
<pounce>
ok i guess it's Hillsboro, even further from beaverton
<pounce>
heat: no, intel
<heat>
you work at intel now?
<pounce>
no!!
<pounce>
<heat> hire me intel
<heat>
i remember you used to have a facebook/ cloak
<gog>
me too
<pounce>
but it's on like, the boring side of portland
<heat>
yeah i mean
<gog>
beaverton was the inspiration for lumberton from david lynch's blue velvet
<heat>
one has to assume all those corporate cities are boring as fuck
<pounce>
i worked at facebook but i quit because i don't like making money
<heat>
based
<zid>
good
<zid>
I recommend getting really interested in buying other people computer parts
<heat>
i'd shoot myself if i had to live in fucking menlo park
<pounce>
no it was seattle
<pounce>
but if i liked computer parts it would have been a good place to stay
<heat>
or fucking mountain view
<heat>
or belevue or whtaever the fuck that is
<pounce>
facebook sent me a $40,000 desktop with NUMA by accident
<heat>
cuz 1) expensive 2) nerds
<heat>
3) literally nothing else
<zid>
$40k and they couldn't even buy ram that was local to you? rude
<pounce>
oh, i didn't have to do bellevue thank goodness
<zid>
"It's got some ram, but it's in a different postal area"
<pounce>
more uniform than that :p
<zid>
My last desktop was numa cus I mismatched the dimms
<zid>
facebook equally cheap
<heat>
ah yes im glad to have a break from my facebook job, now let me step into my Facebook Powered bus to go down to my local Facebook McDonald's and have a McFacebook
<pounce>
TRUE
<pounce>
i went to Menlo park once
<heat>
it's sure good to live in Facebook Park
<pounce>
it was so lame
<zid>
don't forget to drink your verification can so that the bus lets you off, heat
<pounce>
i had to take the facebook bus
<pounce>
to go across the bay
<pounce>
to go to the other facebook
<pounce>
and they didn't even have anybody in the offices, it was just empty limnal tech office space as far as the eye can see
<FireFly>
why did the pounce cross the bay? to get to the other facebook...
<pounce>
they had more turkeys than people!!
<heat>
facebook backrooms
<zid>
and now they're begging people to go back to the offices so that their billion dollar campuses weren't a total waste of money
<pounce>
inshallah my old coworkers escape the facebook backrooms
<zid>
that only served to make local property moguls rich
<heat>
is facebook bad now?
<heat>
as far as i know their benefits and pay were the best among big tech
<heat>
and you weren't uber-harassed
<heat>
wait no, not uber, tesla and spacex
<pounce>
lack of harassment was nice, probably better than foss haha 🥹
<heat>
do you work for a foss company now?
<heat>
did you fill those ginormous canonical interview questionnaires
<pounce>
no im in school
<heat>
"were you a good math student in 9th grade? How good? If so, why?"
<zid>
a student is reading a text in class and starts off “Goethe was a great poet” whereupon the teacher interrupts him and says “oe is pronounced as ö”. The kid starts again and says ”Göte was a great pöt”
<zid>
never not going to think of this every time I see o-dots
<sham1>
ööö
<heat>
pounce seriously what does that mean
<heat>
google translate cant give me an accurate translation
<pounce>
gog: do you like my translation i worked really hard on it 🥺
<heat>
https://i.imgur.com/x6UuBJW.png i have to say my district is way above the rest of the country and this is because i fucking carry the whole country
<bslsk05>
i.imgur.com <no title>
<pounce>
mister president, we have found the OS dev
<heat>
we found THE kernel developer
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<gog>
pounce: it's so good that i don't know what it means because your icelandic is way better than mine
<heat>
both of your icelandics are way better than mine because i do not know iceland at all
<heat>
icelandic
<heat>
ice language
<pounce>
you know that's basically what it's called in chinese
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<pounce>
冰島語
<heat>
how many languages do you know
<pounce>
i know 1 and i suck at many
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<zid>
perfect
<zid>
being bilingual just means you suck at two languages equally
<zid>
pounce: hippo language?
<zid>
oh, that's island not horse
<zid>
my font is teeeny
<gog>
i'm going home fuck this
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<zid>
Home to LA
<zid>
*earthworm jim music*
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<nikolapdp>
zid my case arrived
<zid>
so literally the least important part first?rip
<zid>
You can get PC cases delivered in under 20 mins here
<zid>
phone 202588, PREMIER PIZZA AND BEST KEBAB, ask for an extra large with jalapeno and mushroom, comes shipped inside a complementary PC case
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<nikolapdp>
why didn't i think of that
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<zid>
If you get a 4090 or something, you need multiple pizzas now though
<bslsk05>
community.intel.com: Is next-page prefetcher available on Haswell microarchitecture? - Intel Community
<vin>
Regarding its usefullnes, I think it depends on the user.
<rsjw>
maybe there's some info in patents
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<vin>
rsjw: good idea. A quick search seem to only result in cache line prefetchers though https://patents.google.com/?q=(next+%22page%22+prefetcher+intel)&oq=next+%22page%22+prefetcher+intel
<bslsk05>
patents.google.com: Google Patents
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<vin>
TIL L1 prefetchers can cross page boundaries and can trigger page walks on TLB miss!!
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<heat16>
guess im 16-bit today
<zid>
I thought that was your age
<heat16>
im 13
<heat16>
yall wanna play
<heat16>
uh
<heat16>
fortnite
<Mondenkind>
psh
<Mondenkind>
fortnite is for 7-year-olds
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<Mondenkind>
this channel is for _mature_ people
<zid>
sorry too old
<heat16>
define mature
<Mondenkind>
if you insist
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<heat>
this client is so fucked sometimes
* Mondenkind
#define mature
<heat>
like porn-site category mature?
<heat>
7 year olds can be mature and based
<mjg>
cats are based and red pilled
<nikolapdp>
heat16: hello fellow 16 bit
<heat>
heat16 is no longer with us
<nikolapdp>
rip
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<kof673>
what do people think about various libm?
<Mondenkind>
core-math best libm
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<heat>
i mean, most libm's inherit from sun's
<heat>
1) SUN SUPREMACY
<heat>
2) shows how hard it is to write a good, fast libm
<Mondenkind>
yeah
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<gorgonical>
restarting is for punks. never restart kernels
<sham1>
I really don't care about uptime tbh, also makes updates more reliable when you reboot afterwards
<Mondenkind>
dbus😱😱❌❌🤮
<heat>
'uptime' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
<heat>
operable program or batch file.
<sham1>
> windows
<heat>
sham1: noooooo you don't get it, you need to run your system like a 0 downtime server because
<heat>
uh
<heat>
yes
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<sham1>
Also, at least use PowerShell
<nikolapdp>
i agree heat
<nikolapdp>
we must have 0 downtime, that's why pdp is the best
<heat>
a real pdp would've set your house on fire
<heat>
you don't want your nice soviet block to get burnt down by a capitalist math machine
<nikolapdp>
nah the pdp is reliable
<nikolapdp>
the soviet math machine would've burnt down the block
<heat>
reliable warmer yeah
<heat>
ask geist
<heat>
even the VAX is warm and cozy
<nikolapdp>
well depends on what pdp he has
<Ermine>
Asus router firmware, despite being fucked as hell, shows pretty decent uptimes
<sham1>
Friends don't let friends use consume networking hardware
<nikolapdp>
consume?
<sham1>
I accidentally a letter
<sham1>
consume hardware
* Ermine
consumes hardware
<sham1>
CONSUMER HARDWARE
<sham1>
Aaaa
<sham1>
Stupid consumer-tier keyboard
<heat>
consume-tier?
<heat>
i use *checks notes* whatever my ISP gives me
<nikolapdp>
you also a word
<heat>
this one being particularly cursed
<heat>
this router loses track of ipv6 flow info
<heat>
which fucks up when the load balancing takes the flow info into account -> TCP RST
<sham1>
Wait, your ISP gives you IPv6?
<sham1>
I'm jealous
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<heat>
yep
<Ermine>
my mobile provider silently started giving ipv6, and that broke my wireguard tunnel
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<gorgonical>
also isn't the point of the soviet concrete block that it's pretty much impervious to puny fire?
<gorgonical>
I mean, you might lose your stuff, but the apartment will be fine
<nikolapdp>
i imagine it is
<heat>
i don't know, what do you think i am, a soviet architecture exprt
<heat>
expert
<sham1>
Well the point of a commieblock is to be cheap, which is why they're also found in non-commie countries
<heat>
what non-commie country has commieblocks?
<zid>
if you ask serbia, serbia
<sham1>
For example the former West Germany, Finland also has them
<zid>
former *west* germany?
<zid>
You mean.. germany?
<sham1>
Yes, because there's no West Germany anymore, there's just Germany
<zid>
"Former louisianna purchase"
<heat>
you mean east germany
<zid>
yea why west and not east is the question
<zid>
east is understandable
<zid>
btw if it's in the west
<zid>
it isn't a commie block
<heat>
which, i don't know if you're a history buff, but east germany was communist
<zid>
it's a BRUTALIST ARCHETECTURAL PIECE
<sham1>
Like yeah, technically West Germany just absorbed the DDR and just became whole again, but I mean it in the sense that there are those kinds of block houses even on the western side of what was once the "Inner German border"
<heat>
what you're talking about might be considered "apartment blocks"
<gorgonical>
is this like how immigrants from western countries are called expats
<sham1>
Cheap apartment buildings made out of concrete and prefab stuff
<geist>
nikolapdp, heat: PDP 11/53
<gorgonical>
by that logic most apartments in america are commieblocks
<geist>
so it's fairly late, it's ASIC based. pulls about 80W on the wall, which I was quite surprised
<sham1>
That whole thing about the whole "expat" thing annoys me. No, the reason why they're called expats is not because they're white. They're called expats because there's an expectation that they go back to their home countries unlike immigrants who, well, immigrate
<gorgonical>
You think so? An interesting view
<heat>
commieblocks are a particular architectural thing from the soviet union (and later other communist countries)
<heat>
they're not just apartment blocks
<zid>
gorgonical: no way, americans don't know what concrete is
<zid>
They build everything out of matchsticks
<gorgonical>
Honestly I haven't heard that idea that expats are just "trying it out." I feel like I would not expect an american in Germany to describe themselves as "immigrants"
<gorgonical>
zid: the underlying spirit of building "shelter" out of the cheapest, shittiest materials possible is the same
<zid>
The capitalists heard about the three little pigs and said "What a great idea, we can evict the poors easily and construction costs will be cheaper"
<sham1>
Maybe they wouldn't self-describe as immigrants, but they would be if they're there to stay
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<zid>
expat usually just depends on whether they intend to integrate
<sham1>
It's literally what "immigrant" means
<zid>
or live in an enclave
<kof673>
^^^ to sham my understanding: emigrate ~= physically leave, immigrate ~= physically enter, expatriate ~= leave on paper
<heat>
i understand what you're saying but the poisonous language used around "immigration" would never be used on an american
<heat>
if i go to your country to work, i'm an immigrant
<heat>
if you go to my country to work, you're an expat
<zid>
You're an immigrant because you're porutgal
<heat>
or "just working"
<heat>
exactly
<geist>
zid: i know you're kidding, but a lot of reason a lot of US doesn't do bricks or concrete is because of earthquakes. though it's clearly regional
<geist>
when you travel frmo the west coast to east coast you start seeing a lot more brick or rock or concrete
<zid>
lots of earthquake places do concrete, it's good at it, but expensiver
<gorgonical>
my point is made exactly by heat
<zid>
heat is SWARTHY so he's an immigrant
<zid>
I'm white so I'm an expat
<sham1>
I honestly don't care about how a bunch of racists in a $COUNTRY would use the term, they mean exactly what they mean and if they don't like it, so be it
<gorgonical>
which is silly because if I have the opportunity to move to Europe with a good job I sure as fuck am gonna stay
<gorgonical>
and I'll happily be an immigrant
<zid>
no you get to be a foreign worker, gorg, sorry
<zid>
assuming you're white
<gorgonical>
extremely
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<zid>
yep, no immigrant status for you
<zid>
just overseas seasonal worker
<gog>
hi
<heat>
zid: actually i'm not swarthy, i'm pretty white
<sham1>
Coming in and gentrifying the country smh
<gorgonical>
"my seasonal contract expires in 160 seasons"
<gog>
me too
<zid>
heat: compared to an irish person or comparedto average spaniard, though
<heat>
both
<heat>
i am objectively clear skinned
<sham1>
Of course wrt heat it's a moot point since he has Schengen
<kazinsal>
translucent crew checking in
<zid>
that and migratory birds such as portugoose don't need passports anyway
<heat>
i was confused as to what obscure syndrome you were saying i have
<heat>
schengen syndrome
<sham1>
The rare disease of open borders
<heat>
very serious stuff.
<zid>
I have helvetica syndrome :(
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<heat>
and no, this generally matters
<sham1>
zid: ...you're well typeset?
<gorgonical>
No he likes to eat melted cheese on potatoes
<heat>
now, to me exactly it might not matter because specialized tech guy
<geist>
TIL a new word re programming: monomorphization
<heat>
but if i were to go to france i would be a DIRTY IMMIGRANT
<gorgonical>
sounds like it's related to homoiconicity
<bslsk05>
'helvetica scenario' by imeaktsu7 (00:00:51)
<heat>
ok guys now lets try english
<heat>
thanks
<sham1>
monomorphisation, to make into one form
<geist>
it describes the thing i always take too long to describe: the explosion of one off specialized fucntions you get with templates and other things like that
<gorgonical>
oh it's like loop unrolling but for instantiations of a template
<geist>
yah i was talking internally on chat about how rust code size tends to explode with tons of specialized instances, and someone mentioned monomorphization
<geist>
and now i have a word to describe it
<sham1>
Well except that you couldn't use a template or whatever without fully instantiating it
<heat>
zid: have you seen switzerland's national team shirts?
<heat>
they used helvetica
<heat>
it's great
<gorgonical>
Surely c++ must work similarly under the hood with zero-cost abstractions for stl containers and such?
<heat>
ZERO COST ABSTRACTIONS
<sham1>
heat: they should have used Arial for the irony
<heat>
there are no such abstractions unfortunately
<gorgonical>
oops I said a bad word apparently
<geist>
the cost a lot of time with templates is lots of stamped out, specialized copies of stuff
<heat>
yeah
<geist>
rust has a similar thing as soon as you write code that takes an argument for something that acts as a X
<gorgonical>
anyway it's actually probably not comparable. compile-time generics I think never have dynamic dispatch, right?
<gorgonical>
it's like, the whole point
<heat>
yep
<geist>
yep. the cost is lots of code bloat
<heat>
and compile time
<gorgonical>
so monomorphization is loop unrolling polymorphically-typed functions into the equivalent compiler templated ones
<geist>
which is why things like that are good for lots of things and not good for other stuff
<heat>
this is why templates need to be contained to be used effectively
<heat>
like std::list<type> doesn't need to know the type all the way
<gorgonical>
I fundamentally agree with rust's position. type systems are useful for us and arguing that it makes the compiler complicated is essentially the language designers say "but I don't wanna"
<heat>
you can just know the node's size and then do malloc
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<heat73>
seriously whats with this client
<heat73>
anyway
<zid>
The only time I wanted templates in C is because I wanted float and int to work with the same linked list impl
<gorgonical>
heat73: surely then std::list is like an embedded linked-list thing, right?
<zid>
I basically just wanted an 'agnostic u32'
<zid>
not a type
<zid>
(I knew they were the same size on the platform)
<heat73>
gorgonical: std::list is an extrusive data structure
<gorgonical>
it's like struct node { struct node next; void* data; } right
<heat73>
yes
<gorgonical>
I haven't heard that term in so long I forgot what it meant
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<heat19>
OH FUCK OFF
<gorgonical>
linked lists in C are so awful to use. Iterating and manipulating is pure pain
* gog
extrudes
<zid>
There's a language that has linked lists but where you don't have to look after them?
<heat19>
my point was: you could do node allocation, etc on std::list's class. but then everything is implicitly templated and as such std::list<int>::alloc_node() and std::list<long>::alloc_node() will both be instantiated separately (unless inlined)
* Mondenkind
intrudes
<gorgonical>
heat19: for functional correctness it barely matters but for type correctness you have to have separate copies
<heat19>
if you do something like: template <typename Type> class list : public list_base { /* in the growing code */ (auto node = list_base::alloc_node(sizeof(Type), alignof(Type);
<heat19>
it Just Works
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<gorgonical>
but that requires reflection
<heat19>
without separate instantiation of the template
<heat19>
no it does not
<gorgonical>
or dynamic dispatch of some sort
<gorgonical>
or it has to coalesce definitions
<heat19>
the templated bits need to know what the type is (and they do), list_base::alloc_node is a generic function call with a size and an alignment
<heat19>
basically you contain the templated bits to whatever really needs them
<heat19>
this is how you stop code bloat from blowing up
<gorgonical>
oh I think I see your point. You're not suggesting there's some magic trick here
<gorgonical>
Just following aggresively the principle of least concern
<zid>
To whom it may concern: templates suck
<zid>
like that
<heat19>
like, imagine if template <typename Type> Type *operator new() called into malloc<Type>() etc etc
<heat19>
you'd end up with separate copies of malloc for each type
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<gorgonical>
the cost will be though that you have to make more jumps, presumably
<heat19>
not necessarily a jump, could be inlined
<nikolapdp>
geist, how much power does your pdp11/53 use
<gorgonical>
true but the compiler could be made smart enough to push template information inward automatically, too
<heat19>
the cost will be that e.g the compiler could flatten your node_size = sizeof(type) + sizeof(base_node) at compile time in the templated bit, but instead if it can't align it it'll need to do it with ARGUMENTS and REGISTERS
<heat19>
s/align it/inline it/
<heat19>
there's a slight runtime cost which may or may not be worth it, depending on your architecture and code size and whether all the templatey bits are screwing up your icache etc
<heat19>
if you take 500KB of templatey code into a 20KB generic version you're probably getting performance just from the reduced icache pressure
<geist>
nikolapdp: about 80W
<gorgonical>
From a pl perspective I think you're making the argument the "correct" way in that what is a templated type other than you saying to the compiler "all the code inside here applies specifically to this type"
<nikolapdp>
see heat, perfectly acceptable
<nikolapdp>
thanks giest
<nikolapdp>
geist
<geist>
like i said it's a fairly late model PDP11, from the last generation (pdp11/*3s)
<heat19>
uses like 8x more power than my laptop
<geist>
23/53/73/83
<geist>
so it's basically a full ASIC implementation
<geist>
but still in the case where like 1MB is a whole 8x11 board
<heat19>
your VAX definitely makes your room warmer right?
<gorgonical>
As in, how else would templating work? Unless you have a really sophisticated type model the compiler can't know that much about the memory model. Probably ML/haskells can do this auto-optimization
<geist>
that's more like 300W yeah
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<heat19>
gorgonical: yeah kinda
<Ermine>
In Java, generics are used for type checking, and then get replaced with Object
<heat19>
like generally a lot of templated types are just carelessly templated (because muh type safety, etc) which leads to template code bloat explosion
<Ermine>
There are template fans though
<heat19>
i have a template <typename Type> class memory_pool that does not need to be templated *at all* except for type safety on the alloc() and free() functions. because of it all being templated all of the allocator is duplicated on instantiation
<Ermine>
Does it make onyx... BLOATED?
<heat19>
you could argue it is BLOATED yes
<gorgonical>
but strong. like kyriakos grizzly
* Ermine
calls musl police
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<heat19>
dalias is coming to portugal just to kneecap me
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<geist>
heat19: i suppose this is exactly where something like LTO could perhaps collapse the templated stuff back togetgher again
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<geist>
i dunno what compiler/linkers do that, though i had hard that MSVC's LTCG was pretty good at deduping things
<heat19>
yeah but then the real question might be whether you want that or not
<Ermine>
Oh wow, didn't expect lto to be able to do that
<pounce>
heat19: rewrite it in C
<nikolapdp>
yes rewrite it in c
<heat19>
if you want a codepath so clean so inlined without any needless arguments etc, you might be against dedupping templates there
<heat19>
pounce: in rust
<pounce>
crust
<pounce>
im sad my rust os went nowhere :(
<nikolapdp>
no rust
<pounce>
it was before it was cool
<pounce>
in 2016
<nikolapdp>
it was never cool
<Ermine>
You can do kind-of-templating in C with macros, but will lto handle that?
<Ermine>
nikolapdp: use cola
<nikolapdp>
why wouldn't it?
<heat19>
LTO has no semantic understanding of two functions that look similar but work with different types
<heat19>
it is A LOT harder than having C++ code tell me "oh this function here can work with ints and longs and it's only different for these variables, kthxbye"
<heat19>
best case you could probably have some sort of heuristic on LTO's side but it'll be worse than having semantic understanding of what you're trying to do
<zid>
dedup the machine code via crc32, ez
<Mondenkind>
oh gooddd that reminds me of this one paper from microsoft
<Mondenkind>
about a thing they implemented in msvc (never shipped, thankfully)
<Mondenkind>
where they used djb2 as a hash expecting strong collision resistance
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<Mondenkind>
as in the compilation would be completely broken if there was ever a collision
<Mondenkind>
in fucking djb2
<mjg>
OH
<mjg>
language
<geist>
heat19: well i was thinking that post translation if it comes up with basically the same bytecode it can detect that they're identical and collapse
<geist>
so if you end up with a function that operates on ints and longs and ends up with the same code
<geist>
or... say a intrusive list that works on the same offset from the base of the object
<zid>
yea that's basically exactly what I wanted a template for in my C
<zid>
I had a {float v; struct node *next;} and {int v; struct node *next;} and all the list code would have been machinecode identical
<zid>
but I had to make two of them because of types
<zid>
and just pray that the compiler could somehow compile them, eventually I just typecast the shit out of it to make sure
<zid>
somehow combine*
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