<heat>
gog, hello gogger, how read Breiðablik ungmennafélag
<heat>
it looks like mumbo jumbo
<moon-child>
wasn't Griwes going to write the STL from scratch?
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<kaichiuchi>
i've calmed down
<kaichiuchi>
but
<kaichiuchi>
I need to see the fruits of my labor sometimes
<heat>
moon-child, Griwes is also a member of the committee
<heat>
we and him are not the same :P
<kaichiuchi>
...is he?
<heat>
yes
<kaichiuchi>
that's actually pretty awesome
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<kaichiuchi>
okay
<kaichiuchi>
so I started using std::byte and I can't increment it
<kaichiuchi>
back to uint8_T
<heat>
yes, std::byte is a raw byte, no increments
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<kaichiuchi>
hi
<heat>
i thought I had found a way to create a better looking version of acpica but it turns out their utility is broken af
<kaichiuchi>
my cousin called me an hour ago
<kaichiuchi>
he's 12, bear this in mind
<kaichiuchi>
I gave him my K&R book because he wants to be a programmer one day
<kaichiuchi>
apparently, his dog quite literally ate my K&R book.
<heat>
>he wants to be a programmer one day
<heat>
no
<kaichiuchi>
yes
<heat>
no
<kaichiuchi>
well, more accurately, he wants to do game dev
<heat>
god oh god no
<kaichiuchi>
and I warned him what he was getting himself into
<heat>
c r u n c h
<kaichiuchi>
but, he wants to do it
<heat>
he's 12
<kaichiuchi>
yes
<kaichiuchi>
I'm sure it'll wear off
<heat>
he has plenty of time to change his mind
<kaichiuchi>
I hope it does
<kaichiuchi>
because I don't want to be there when he realizes they work 90 hour weeks with low pay and constant layoffs
<kaichiuchi>
now, again, he's 12
<kaichiuchi>
he doesn't understand any of that
<heat>
tell him to become a doctor
<heat>
do something noble
<heat>
not this shit
<kaichiuchi>
i'm certainly not going to discourage him from doing what he wants to do
<kaichiuchi>
i wanted to be a doctor at one point
<kaichiuchi>
pathologist
<kaichiuchi>
but I'm more in tune with pharma
<kaichiuchi>
one of the biggest mistakes I made in my life was doing what I love to do (programming, despite my rants) as a career
<kaichiuchi>
heat: being a doctor isn't exactly as noble as you might think
<heat>
god i feel you
<heat>
why not
<kaichiuchi>
having worked in a hospital, I've met plenty of them
<kaichiuchi>
they're all miserable assholes
<kaichiuchi>
I think a lot of them are miserable because they found out being a doctor isn't all it was cracked up to be
<heat>
you can be a miserable asshole all you want, you still put your ass on the line to save lives
<kaichiuchi>
when I worked at the hospital I was there when COVID was beginning
<heat>
i can't imagine what it is to work a 24h+ shift lol
<kaichiuchi>
the era of "you have COVID? doesn't matter who you are or what you are, you are DEAD"
<kaichiuchi>
doctors and nurses were, of course, absolutely completely shit on by budgetary and political forces
<kaichiuchi>
if you go to my GitHub page my profile picture has me in a lab coat
<kaichiuchi>
that's because I was in the lab, but I saw a lot of nightmarish shit
<kaichiuchi>
heat: one of the residents was so sleep deprived when he was woken up to take care of a trauma he was completely shell shocked and didn't know what to do, so he brushed his teeth and went back to sleep
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<kaichiuchi>
I worked at 20 hour shift at one point
<kaichiuchi>
what an experience
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<kaichiuchi>
and as far as "doing what I love to do as a career" goes
<kaichiuchi>
the money is good and I have to eat
<kaichiuchi>
otherwise I would be perfectly content pushing carts at walmart
<heat>
i mean, absolutely, that's why it's noble, you actually make an impact and sacrifice good chunks of your life
<kaichiuchi>
man
<kaichiuchi>
they talk so much shit on patients
<heat>
I don't know any doctor that actually knew what they were getting into
<kof123>
that's essentially supposed to be the story of house...observations from real life
<kof123>
what if they said that to your face lol
<kaichiuchi>
here's the problem, at least in the US: the debt is extreme, they're not paid *STARTING OUT* super well, and again, COVID idiots
<kaichiuchi>
do you know how many doctors I've seen fight with patients about vaccinations
<heat>
i made a good chunk more as an intern than a doctor starting out (after 6-7 years of medical school)
<heat>
it's nuts
<kaichiuchi>
they're miserable assholes because they're burned out and they're tired of getting shit on every day
<kaichiuchi>
they really do not feel like they have as much of an impact as one might think
<heat>
that's not exclusive to doctors :)
<kaichiuchi>
of course not
<kaichiuchi>
but I would say they have it worse
<kaichiuchi>
when you're dealing with people's lives and they want to be idiots about it
<kaichiuchi>
I would take being shit on every day in a PR over being shit on every day in an ER setting
<heat>
well ofc but tech workers are VERY privileged compared to everyone else
<kaichiuchi>
yeah...
<kaichiuchi>
I don't even really do anything at my job
<kaichiuchi>
my bug fix was one line and that was my entire work for the day
<kaichiuchi>
i can definitely understand though, wanting to do something that makes an impact
<kaichiuchi>
I would feel elated if one day I got to work on code for medical products and also fucking *terrified* that I might inadvertently kill someone
<kaichiuchi>
heat: perhaps that's something you should consider doing
<kaichiuchi>
would be a good middle ground
<kaichiuchi>
it's not the first time you've mentioned "doctor"
<heat>
nah
<heat>
those are mostly jokes lol
<kaichiuchi>
oh
<heat>
although in a way I sometimes do question if this is the path I want to take for my life
<heat>
at the end of the day who gives a shit for $misc_improvement for $software?
<kaichiuchi>
at the end of the day who gives a shit*
<kaichiuchi>
fixed that for you
<heat>
I also question if my hobby becoming my day job will actually negatively affect my happiness
<kaichiuchi>
i can only speak for myself
<kaichiuchi>
it kind of does
<kaichiuchi>
it's tempered by the fact I'm making good money for the first time... ever
<kaichiuchi>
but I'm restricted to "rules" and "regulations" and "meetings"
<kaichiuchi>
so much joy, gone
<heat>
right :/
<kaichiuchi>
and besides, I don't think you really want to make a super large impact, because then you end up being public and notable and your privacy is gone forever
<kaichiuchi>
and every word you say is scrutinized
<heat>
theres like, so much shit i'd love to do with my life
<kaichiuchi>
you basically have to watch every single word you ever say in public again for the rest of your life
<heat>
doing what I do best is only a small fraction of the fuckton of things I would love to do, learn, explore
<kaichiuchi>
if I can get my gameboy emulator really really performant on a 386 that'd be cool, might earn me a blog post somewhere
<kaichiuchi>
and that terrifies me.
<kaichiuchi>
man
<kaichiuchi>
you and I are young
<kaichiuchi>
there's time
<heat>
true
<heat>
i just really feel out of place sometimes
<kaichiuchi>
for me it's just imposter syndrome
<kaichiuchi>
every day I feel like I don't know what I'm doing
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<cyao>
Hello, does someone have a working driver for ATA PIO write (28 bit mode)? Can't figure out why my driver is not working
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<geist>
hmm, should be a few of these floating around
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<cyao>
@geist couldn't find anything XD
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<kazinsal>
chances are there are enough of us here who don't have a driver for reference but can probably guess the problem with enough faulty code
<geist>
yah i dont have one offhand. always meant to write a PIO ATA just to do it
<geist>
but last i had checked it looked like a bunch of un-fun, so i always decide to work on something more fun
<kazinsal>
same. goes on the pile of "do it at some point as a last resort post-panic thing"
<kazinsal>
eg. if everything has collapsed to the point that DMA is no longer reliable then PIOing a panic dump to some reserved part of the boot partition should theoretically be doable, but that's an extremely last resort level of "oh shit"
<geist>
yah main reason i'd do it is for lulz on some old 386 machine flaoting around
<kazinsal>
for sure
<kazinsal>
eventually if I get back into osdev then my "target market" is still very much compute and memory heavy being network based
<geist>
yah reminds me i should give another stab at this little arm router like board thing
<kazinsal>
so the peak performance benefits of a disk in IDE mode vs AHCI mode vs PCIe mode are so minimal
<geist>
nvme FTW!
<kazinsal>
AHCI mode gives you command queueing and PCIe mode gives you... idk, magic 32 gigs a second of data going fwoosh
<kazinsal>
I care more about 32 gigs of fwoosh when I'm loading up call of duty than when I'm starting up a router
<cyao>
Ok so my problem is that my Write ATA PIO function just keeps polling never breaks from the loop.
<ddevault>
my builds are not reproducible so this is gonna be annoying, but
<zid>
heat: A friend was doing advent 13, I told him to run my input and tell me the answers to each [[2],3] pair, I updated my code to match his answers.
<zid>
it makes sense, dumb data structure -> clever data structure, lowers some random insert/delete case's performance in exchange for more of some other thing
<mjg>
> The regression was taken as an
<mjg>
acceptable trade off for the gain on the read speed.
<mjg>
this may or may not make sense, but as is it does sound very handwaivy
<mjg>
i would expect a profile shipped to demonstrate what's going on
<mjg>
for the change to be this big i strongly suspect they are doing something stupid which they don't realize, and which they never profiled for
<mjg>
unfortunately there is no immediate info how much is the perf shafted by mitigations alone
<mjg>
as in, if the test bot runs on a cpu where syscall rate is low, the actual mapple syroup impact is FUCKING ENORMOUS and undermeasured
<mjg>
even with the 40% drop
<zid>
this is a scaling test btw
<zid>
not an actual perf test
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<mjg>
maybe i'll play with it later
<kaichiuchi>
I wanna go home
<kaichiuchi>
IAR is seriously one of the worst compilers I’ve had to use
<kaichiuchi>
and my clang stuff isn’t mainline yet
<heat>
kaichiuchi, so historically the vm region tree (which is THE source of info for most of the vm subsystem) has been a red-black tree with a huge rw lock around it. the red black tree isnt trivially RCU-able and the rw lock thing has sucked for performance, such that they did get region caches and shit (which were also poorly implemented as a linked list, go figure). the maple tree is a btree-like thing which also can do RCU
<heat>
I can't properly explain what a maple tree is because tbh I don't quite understand it either, yet
<kaichiuchi>
i got everything except maple tree
<heat>
but if you dig around in lwn or linux docs iirc it's well explained there
<heat>
anyway this is probably the largest change to linux vm in 20 years
<j`ey>
omg im so dumb, wasted so long debugging this crap. just remembered 'earlycon' and I immediately get some useful output :|
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<kaichiuchi>
we’ve all been there
<Ermine>
heat: maybe there are papers on maple trees?
<heat>
Ermine, not really, this is a new linux thing
<Ermine>
I want to try to implement in minix or xv6
<mjg>
rmoved now, see 6eeac1d921b573e39001e0bf47967060d6fb4347
<mjg>
introduced 2008, disappeared 2021
<heat>
Reviewed by: various
<heat>
this is the kind of shit I like
<mjg>
various is my middle name
<heat>
ok *@
<FireFly>
mjg: I was gonna say "I wonder if someone added the commas later", but I suppose removing down would make the strlen 20..
<mjg>
it came with the initial commit
* FireFly
shrugs
<mjg>
distinguished bsd scholarly aside, this is a nice reminder to not trust comments
<kof123>
yeah i was thinking this was nitpicking but implying that strlen() includes \0 is not a good sign
<kof123>
i would totally do such things, and use +1 ...but a comment "+1 for terminating \0" etc.
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<Ermine>
heat: anyway I'm not going to publish it.
<kaichiuchi>
hi
<Ermine>
hewwo
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<gorgonical>
A quick qemu question: does anyone know if the serial monitor on qemu behaves differently for input if you're in single stepping mode or attached via gdb?
<gorgonical>
I get output just fine but input doesn't work
<gorgonical>
this is for risc-v but probably applicable also to at least the arm qemu
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<heat>
gorgonical, are your interrupts borken?
<heat>
mjg, ofc you shouldn't trust interrupts, you need to trust your god-given man(9) pages
<heat>
s/interrupts/comments/
<heat>
me borken too
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<geist>
heat: nothing definitive right now but fiddled a bit with trying to get the dynamic stuff working on riscv last night. mostly a bunch of upgrading my linker scripts
<heat>
I can't get Wl,--export-dynamic to not create a got and plt
<heat>
which is a deal breaker
<geist>
it seems to only be on arm64
<heat>
and x86_64
<geist>
note that using a got doesn't seem to be the problem, it's that in my case it doesn't *initialize* the got if you're exporting dynamic
<heat>
at least on lld
<geist>
it's like it expects you to fill it in because you got these fancy REL entries right here
<heat>
man I get full blown relocations
<geist>
--no-pie seemed to help i think
<heat>
it's not the kind of thing I'm looking forward to have :)
<heat>
I already pass no-pie
<geist>
but yeah lld i expect is a completely different set of broken behavior
<heat>
if this weird behavior entirely depends on the linker it might be a poor choice
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<geist>
well yeah that's the problem
<geist>
is there some stable island of linkers and features to get it to generate this without needing local relocations. basically i just want a non relocatable library with exported dynamic section
<geist>
it's the non relocatable part that's hard, because there's this built in assumption that exporting symbosl == relocatable
<heat>
exactly
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<heat>
i hate intel's fw C coding style
<heat>
why am I looking at acpica
<heat>
fuck
<Ermine>
They use MS style don't they?
<heat>
not quite
<heat>
it's more fucked up
<heat>
so this utility "acpisrc" can generate linux versions of ACPICA, which generally uses a more tolerable coding style
<heat>
this util is very broken and doesn't generate correct code
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<heat>
at least acpica doesn't use STATIC VOID
<gog>
heat
<heat>
that's a plus right?
<heat>
gog
<heat>
gog
<heat>
gog
<heat>
gog
<gog>
the breithablikk youth association
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<gog>
breiðablik ungmennafélagið?
<gog>
is that what you said
<heat>
yes
<gog>
yeah
<gog>
that's what it means
<gog>
idk what it is
<heat>
i got them in the europa conference league in my football manager game
<zid>
it's the breiðablik youth association
<gog>
bo
<gog>
oh
<gog>
that's a football conference here
<gog>
iirc
<heat>
poor fellas are semi-pro and still win the icelandish league
<heat>
they got pounded by my manchester united
<heat>
ez
<gog>
man u is a premier league team in a large federation
<gog>
iceland is small fish in that pond
<heat>
absolutely
<heat>
literal plumbers probably
<gog>
nah the plumbers woudl be polish or romanian
<gog>
their managers tho
<gog>
all icelandic
<zid>
That's great for them though
<zid>
that their sunday league team gets to play manur