klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<kaichiuchi> hi
<gog> hi'
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<kaichiuchi> I'm deeply considering getting an old retro style setup
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<kaichiuchi> you know, with the old 2000s era keyboards, mice, and the big CRT screen
<geist> fascinating that old 2000s era is retro
<geist> but alas, i'm too old
<kaichiuchi> man i get you
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<kaichiuchi> i just want the old stuff to see how fast I can make something work on the old shit
<geist> well as someone that deals with a lot of retro computer nostalgia, the answer is not very fast
<geist> the appeal wears off pretty fast if all you're trying to do is run modern stuff on old hardware
<geist> where it gets interesting is running old stuff on old hardware, since that's something that you can/shouldn't/etc do now
<geist> ie, dos on a 486. xenix on a 286, win95 on a pentium, etc
<geist> OS/2 on a pentium
<geist> that kinda stuff is fun because its a novel experience at least from modern stuff
<kaichiuchi> well I don't mean making existing modern software work on old PCs
<kaichiuchi> I just mean projects that I code
<kaichiuchi> still, though, the answer is likely "not very fast"
<geist> yeah, but still a fun exercise if nothing else
<kaichiuchi> i like making things go fast, and my overall theory is if I can make "x" go *really* fast on old hardware, surely on newer hardware it will go even faster
<kaichiuchi> of course, that isn't always true
<kaichiuchi> ("i like making things go fast" might've sounded a little cocky, it's not to say that no one here cares about that either)
<clever> kaichiuchi: ive also seen the reverse happen, to the point of crashing
<kaichiuchi> right
<clever> kaichiuchi: there was an abnormally slow opcode on old x86, that NT? based kernels used for the timing loop
<clever> but then modern cpu's sped it up, and also run at ghz, so the timing loop takes 0 ticks of the system timer
<clever> and boom, division by zero!
<clever> it got too fast, and broke
<kaichiuchi> hm... I think I remember something about this
<kaichiuchi> FIX95CPU?
<kaichiuchi> that's not NT but I can definitely see what you mean
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<mjg> yo
<mjg> is there a magic one liner to show all exported symbols which are not referenced anywhere by the binary itself?
<moon-child> probably
<moon-child> HTH.HAND
<mjg> nice, thanks
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<gog> meow+
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<moon-child> meow-
<gog> meow++
<moon-child> meow#
<gog> c# is ok
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<moon-child> I have literally neve rused it
<gog> i've grown to like it a lot
<gog> way harder to shoot yourself in the foot with memory management
<moon-child> afaik, c# is microsoft java, with a worse compiler and a slower gc, and possibly nicer syntax sugar
<gog> that's basically true
<moon-child> well yea, you get that with any gc language
<moon-child> even rust
* moon-child speaks softly to avoid awakening the resf
<j`ey> but rust isnt gc??
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<Mutabah> moon-child: rust doesn't have gc
<Mutabah> well, not any more
<Mutabah> (long ago, in early 2014 it did... in name mostly)
<moon-child> more's the pity--they removed it
<moon-child> Mutabah: the implication was that even though rust is not a gc language, it still makes it way harder to shoot yourself in the foot with memory management
<j`ey> true
<Mutabah> "memory safe" is the term you probably wanted
<moon-child> I was echoing gog
<Mutabah> ah, misread the message associations
<gog> yes memory safe
<gog> also TIL c# has 'unsafe'
<moon-child> so does java--sun.misc.unsafe
<gog> i was wondering if it was possible to manipulate pointers directly and apparently so
<moon-child> and haskell--unsafePerformIO
<moon-child> and basically every other serious 'memory-safe' language--need escape hatches to get work done
<gog> yeh
<gog> part of me considers that a deficiency
<gog> the part of me that says "fuck memory safety yolo"
<moon-child> see church-turing, rice, etc.
<moon-child> it's literally impossible to prove the correctness or memory safety of arbitrary programs
<gog> yeh
<vdamewood> Yum, memory
* vdamewood eats all the memory
* gog gives vdamewood a memory fishy
* vdamewood chomps memory fishy
<vdamewood> Wait... It's supposed to go the other way.
<gog> it's actually a 32-bit number 0x68736966
<vdamewood> gog: Your fishy is little endian.
<gog> yes
<moon-child> little endian best endian
<vdamewood> Well, it's not like I have any big-endian machines anymore.
<vdamewood> My last big-endian machine was a SparcStation IPX
<gog> don't you have arm
<gog> i know that's not exactly pure big endian
<gog> but it will do it
<vdamewood> ARM is little endian.
<gog> what about BE8
<gog> or is that an optional extension
<vdamewood> Actually, I think ARM is bi-endian, and little is the default.
<gog> in any case moon-child is right
<gog> little endian best
* vdamewood must... avoid... kink... okes.
<vdamewood> *jokes
<gog> kink jokes
<gog> :o
<gog> oh
<gog> oh god
<gog> no
<vdamewood> gog: no?
<gog> lol
<vdamewood> Yay, I made someone laugh.
<kaichiuchi> hi
<vdamewood> hi
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<epony> you're both insane, there is no little endianness
<gog> where
<heat> here
<heat> gog, bazombie
<zid> heat: day 11 was a total fuck
<heat> a fuck? nice!
<zid> impossible to parse and hard to solve
<zid> I skipped the parsing and hardcoded it all into the source
<zid> Also gmp is silly, I found out, and didn't even work
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<zid> gmp revolves around a typedef of mpz_t.. but it's actually a scam type and is an array of [1] __mpz
<zid> so it immediately breaks if you try to do things like assignment
<heat> wait gmp?
<zid> bigints yo
<heat> ohno
<zid> turns out gmp ran out of memory trying to solve it that way
<zid> so I used a trick instead
<zid> bitch level because it both wasn't free to implement, and also was impossible to parse
<zid> either step is fine, both together sucked
<heat> run someone else's python solution on your input and make your C program printf("<score>");
<zid> system("./day11.py");
<zid> full C source ^
<heat> noooooooo not system!
<heat> execve it man
<zid> printf("<?php level11(); ?>");
<heat> or CreateProcessW
<kaichiuchi> i have to clean today.
<kaichiuchi> and i don't wanna.
<kaichiuchi> :(
<zid> php would actually be a pretty good C pre-processor
<zid> better than html
<zid> better than using it for html*
<epony> php is html pre-processor
<zid> php not having you know, support, for html, is the weirdest shit btw
<zid> you just have to echo "<br>"; all over
<epony> you have to know when and how to use templates
<epony> instead of generating the templates with code (duh)
<epony> it's a magically stupid idea to generate HTML with C code either
<gog> i will do it
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<mrvn> zid: use the c++ wrapper if you want to do assignment
<zid> does that count as cheating
<epony> the challenge is to do it in Forth targetting your NIC boot ROM
<mrvn> Yes, day11.c should be in shell too
<zid> 'Take the 4th column from the last 8 lines and sort them, take the 2 largest, and use bc to multiply them together'
<epony> "awk"
<mrvn> Parsing day11 is a pain. Should one really implement a symbolic calculator for the operation? Or just parse the input by hand and hardcode it?
<mrvn> running the 20 rounds sounds rather simple though.
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<mrvn> It's a bad problem statement though that predates mutli-core designs.
<mrvn> All monkeys should throw in parallel, not sequentially.
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<zid> Okay I asked someone, and it's cheating unless you use dup2/fork/exec
<heat> you talked with the CEO of aoc?
<zid> yes
<vdamewood> that's two TLAs!
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<zid> THe cathode extraction office of the australian order of convicts
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<heat> isn't the australian order of convicts just australia
<zid> yea it means "australians"
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<Piraty> l
<gog> |
<Ermine> /
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<radens> Hello! Dumb as heck question. When I do a backtrace and gdb gets to the first frame, its shows this message: "Backtrace stopped: previous frame identical to this frame (corrupt stack?)
<radens> "
<radens> Is there a way to set up the stack frame such that gdb knows that, nope, that's the begining of the stack, it can stop searching there?
<radens> I'm on aarch64 btw
<Mutabah> debug information
<Mutabah> add stack frame information for your asm entrypoint that marks itself as the end
<radens> Mutabah: do you have an example of that?
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<Mutabah> Unfortunately, no.
<Mutabah> Last time I tried to do DWARF debug info, it was for doing unwinding through IRQs/exception vectors
<Mutabah> and gave up
<Mutabah> Just doing a simple annotation of an asm function should be easy?