teepee changed the topic of #openscad to: OpenSCAD - The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller | This channel is logged! | Website: http://www.openscad.org/ | FAQ: https://goo.gl/pcT7y3 | Request features / report bugs: https://goo.gl/lj0JRI | Tutorial: https://bit.ly/37P6z0B | Books: https://bit.ly/3xlLcQq | FOSDEM 2020: https://bit.ly/35xZGy6 | Logs: https://bit.ly/32MfbH5
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<InPhase> kintel: Hearing the description above, I'd endorse doing away with that Windows bundled test zip thing. If it's unused, lacking a clear use case, and a maintenance burden, then it doesn't make too much sense to keep it I guess.
<InPhase> kintel: Maybe as good courtesy give it a visible removal commit with its own merged PR to assist in finding it again if someone wants to resurrect it.
<InPhase> kintel: And pr4608 mostly passes my inspection. It picked up my CTEST_PARALLEL_LEVEL environment variable by default, so I unset it, ran again, confirmed it was slow, and then tested out "make test -j8", but it did not shuttle the parameter in there successfully to ctest. I wonder if there is a way to do this? One other thing I'd recommend clarifying is "Once built, you can run tests with make test
<InPhase> or ctest from the build directory" for your README edit, since it's dislocated from the command above that puts it into the build command.
<InPhase> kintel: The direct ctest from the build directory behaves as expected.
<InPhase> kintel: Oh, hmm. And one oddity. I was validating that the old way running within tests still works. It does! But... the two approaches have different outputs, of build/Testing/Temporary/* and build/tests/Testing/Temporary/* Should this be made consistent?
<InPhase> kintel: Since that list grew... I migrated all that over to the pr4608 thread as some bullet points.
<InPhase> kintel: You'll notice I focused a lot on parallelization, but this is because on my system the OpenSCAD tests flip from about 1 minute, where my attention doesn't wander, to 8 minutes, where I go off to do something else and forget for a while that I was running tests, based on whether or not I have parallelization on. :) So it really changes my mental workflow.
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<kintel> InPhase Thanks for the feedback. Fully agree on parallelization. I was hoping to eventually switch everything to ninja and auto-parallelization. That works well for builds but not yet for tests..
<kintel> InPhase: Btw. 1 minute? What CPU is that and what's your -j arg?
<InPhase> kintel: Ryzen 7 4800, 8 cores, -j20, and the run I just did reported back 83s. That's a physicist-scale minute.
<kintel> InPhase release build?
<gbruno> [github] gordio opened pull request #4610 (Fix: Bump required version of glib2) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4610
<InPhase> kintel: Naturally.
<InPhase> kintel: I never debug build. :)
<kintel> I like those stack traces too much :)
<InPhase> I have more confidence in tests that have had the optimizer on... More room for errors == stronger tests.
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<gbruno> [github] gordio closed pull request #4609 (Added missing packages information for build on MacOS) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4609
<kintel> That's a good point indeed; users also run optimized binaries :)
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<kintel> 58s on -j30 :)
<InPhase> That's a broad philosophy I tend to push regularly in C++ communities. But because they are C++ communities, not many people listen. ;)
<kintel> ..but 43 _minutes_ on macOS : (
<InPhase> lol, wow. 43 minutes is a lot.
<kintel> There are some degenerate OpenGL issues. One day I'll get to it, but I'm taking the slow, bottom-up path
<InPhase> It would certainly slow down the feedback cycle of fixing problems with tests.
<kintel> I've found myself ssh'ing into my new PC to do development :)
<InPhase> I do that at work regularly. Develop on my Linux system, and then transfer the results to the Windows snail, set it building, and go get lunch.
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<kintel> InPhase Meh, the Makefile exposes test as a single ctest invocation, so there isn't anything for make to parallelize
<kintel> workaround: make test ARGS=-j30
<InPhase> Does the Makefile have a variable for its own parallelization?
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<kintel> No, it looks like it's generally hard to pull the -j argument out of a makefile invocation
<kintel> ..but we could potentially set MAKEFLAGS=-j20 as an env variable, and see if that could be passed onto ctest with some cmake magic
<kintel> Not sure it's worth chasing around though
<kintel> Perhaps rather tone down the docs for "make test", and recommend running ctest from the build dir instead
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 2 modifications (Adjust docs) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/934c870b90aa6e954f705dba1cb6b1f0551a7b66
<gbruno> [github] kintel synchronize pull request #4608 (Remove need to cd into tests directory) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4608
<JordanBrown[m]> InPhase the flip side is that (depending on development practices) debug builds may have assertions.
<JordanBrown[m]> At work debug builds get tons of debugging turned on in the memory allocator, which catches lots of bugs.
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 additions 2 modifications (Move invocation of OpenCSG's build script to _after_ libraries like glew have been found) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/521704fed7e4d192ef91a14714804c50b7a3485e
<JordanBrown[m]> Memory leaks are a lot easier to detect and debug when the debugger says "you had a memory leak from an allocation at this call stack".
<kintel> JordanBrown[m] hey, did you ever end up getting tests to run on your Windows/msys2 box again?
<JordanBrown[m]> Haven't tried.
<JordanBrown[m]> Between one thing and six others I haven't been doing much OpenSCAD recently - either internals or usage.
<kintel> Let me know if you get back to it and have motivation to run tests :) As discussed above, we can run all tests in 1 minute on a semi-modern CPU, so that give a nice turnaround time compared to the CI
<JordanBrown[m]> First I have to get a semi-modern CPU.
<kintel> heh, I bet the one you have probably beats the CI with some margin ;)
<kintel> ..unless you're like buzz and run OpenSCAD on a 10-year old cell phone
<JordanBrown[m]> Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. It was relatively cheap in 2013.
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<JordanBrown[m]> InPhase's Ryzen 74800 scores somewhere around 17-19,000 on PassMark CPU Mark. My A10-6700 scores around 3000.
<JordanBrown[m]> So it's bigger and consumes more power than a ten-year-old cell phone. Faster... maybe, maybe not.
<gbruno> [github] kintel review_requested pull request #4610 (Fix: Bump required version of glib2) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4610
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 additions 2 modifications (Move invocation of OpenCSG's build script to _after_ libraries like glew have been found) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/521704fed7e4d192ef91a14714804c50b7a3485e
<gbruno> [github] kintel synchronize pull request #4596 (Add OpenCSG as a submodule) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4596
<peeps[zen]> *reading scrollback* what's the issue with building tests in parallel? doesn't the test build take like 2s? and during testing, ctest accepts a -j parameter.
<gbruno> [github] kintel closed pull request #4610 (Fix: Bump required version of glib2) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4610
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 modifications (Fix: Bump required version of glib2 (#4610) glib2 2.75 is required to be build on MacOS with latest clang (14.0.3). More info https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/-/issues/2759) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/ee2bb0578c847eb9841fb5b99faa999d2e2dd758
<kintel> peeps[zen] It was about _running_ tests with `make test`
<peeps[zen]> oh, uh. why would you want to do that?
<kintel> It was just an idea for how to take the mental model of test runners out of the equation for casual devs; cmake && make && make test
<peeps[zen]> kintel: i haven't tried your "cmake && make && make test" yet, but just realized that is making an assumption about the cmake generator which I'm not too fond of
<kintel> ..but I've since reverted that to recommending ctest
<peeps[zen]> cmake && cmake --build . && ctest?
<kintel> `cmake -GNinja && ninja && ninja test` would work too
<kintel> ..but with the same parallelization issues
<kintel> cmake --build: Yeah that's probably more correct, just so many characters to type :/
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<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 modifications (Linux build fix) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/e84d3ce5bf7c4928eeda5fd61a3e3fbb387a8060
<gbruno> [github] kintel synchronize pull request #4596 (Add OpenCSG as a submodule) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4596
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<peeps[zen]> kintel: btw if you are looking for jobs env variable for tests: https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/envvar/CTEST_PARALLEL_LEVEL.html
<peeps[zen]> I just put that in my .bashrc, along with `export CMAKE_GENERATOR=Ninja`
<peeps[zen]> kintel: 1327 tests failed out of 1502 on your PR. I think its just my graphics driver is being a pain again. gonna try a reboot
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<peepsalot> ok, mulitple issues going on. I also forgot to set EXPERIMENTAL=ON, which annoyingly breaks vast 88% of tests i guess
<peepsalot> its good to test experimental features, but making them mandatory for 88% of tests is pretty bad
<peepsalot> kintel: testa are all passing for me now, except for the 2 preview w/ edges related
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<peepsalot> i've been thinking about writing a little javsacript widget for our test reports, to add some different image comparison options, much like github's has "Swipe" & "Onion Skin" options
<peepsalot> I'd like another view type to just display difference in images too (actual - expected)
<peepsalot> or does anyone else care? :P
<InPhase> peepsalot: In image_compare.py the "s" variable in Compare3x3 is a boolean mask of all 3x3 blocks which are different. Perhaps that would help if you wanted to draw attention to the differences.
<InPhase> peepsalot: Noting that for a 512x512 image, s is 510x510 in size, as it logically must be.
<peepsalot> hmm, yeah that's another option. I was thinking a cool thing for the difference view would be a gain slider
<peepsalot> so you could amplify subtle color differences
<InPhase> That function will flag all 3x3 consistent color differences more than scale 3 out of 256.
<peepsalot> InPhase: you mean basically reimplementing your algorithm in javascript or more like having the tests save an intermediate image that the report would also reference?
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<InPhase> But, it's two different strategies. One is "trust the magic function, and help people spot what it is finding". The other is "provide an alternative view that can spot other stuff".
<InPhase> Oh, I was thinking it could save an intermediate.
<peepsalot> ah ok, cause maintaining multiple algorithm translations sounds like a pain, even if it is relatively simple :P
<InPhase> It wouldn't be too tough to reimplement if you wanted, but yeah, best to centralize. :)
<peepsalot> but that would also raise the report size a bit, since all images are embedded as base64 data:uri
<InPhase> Well only for failing ones, right?
<peepsalot> I guess it could potentially output a 1bit image of the 3x3 masks which would compress well
<peepsalot> yeah only failing, but its not out of the question to end up with reports having nearly every test failing
<peepsalot> though when that happens its also often because the "actual" images weren't generated at all
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<kintel> peepsalot Options for helping spotting diffs would be cool. At work I tend to use the one that just flips between the two images every second, as I've found that stands out really well.
<kintel> In terms of the "view edges" test failures. I'll get that sorted as well, as a separate PR, as that's now starting to pop up in the wild. This was always the plan, I just wanted someone else to experience it first
<Scopeuk> commercial software but beyond compares image comparison tools are pretty impressive. probably rather over kill for what we want though
<Scopeuk> there may be open alternatives out there, I'm not as familiar with them though
<kintel> I haven't seen anything better than what we have in the industry though, in terms of image-based regression tests
<kintel> I'm sure there must be something in the are of visual inspection QA of physical parts etc., but I haven't work in such places : /
<Scopeuk> regression tests is the key. the tools I have used are for interactive interrogation. regression testing images is hard and we have a fairly solid test suite for it
<kintel> Anything freely or commercially available that we could get ideas from?
<Scopeuk> for interactive compare "beyond compare" https://www.scootersoftware.com/ has a pretty powerful suite letting you have a and b images and then a comparison panel with multiple modes along with scaling/sizing/positioning but it is a desktop application. it has a free trial if you wanted to have a look how it behaves. not sure I have any image
<Scopeuk> regressions tools in my repertoire
<kintel> Mostly interested in automated regression test approaches :)
<Scopeuk> that's fair. I'm interested in it. I have tried looking for this stuff from an automatic testing of UI stuff briefly but the "state of the art" seams to be very platform specific
<kintel> I wouldn't mind UI tests either, but that's a crazy universe to enter
<kintel> squish by froglogic used to be a shining star in the Qt world, but commercial and with only limited availability to OSS project through a KDE license I think
<Scopeuk> https://pyguibot.wordpress.com/ was the most interesting thing I found last time I looked at it.
<kintel> peepsalot Yeah, I've also noticed that we let experimental features creep a bit (too) deeply into our tests. I guess this was initially well-meant as a way of giving fast-csg some good tests. ..but this is not cool, as I expect most users to use the default settings which are now less tested than before.
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<juri_> fwiw, for these kinds of tests in implicitcad/hslice, i just md5sum the output files.
<Scopeuk> the objective here is to detect "meaningful" changes to the output files, a 100% exact match is awsome but with parts of the rendering engine there is slight dither etc depedning on the gpu driver used (particularly with the preview system)
<juri_> i typically do a full point release any time something changes the output STLs in ImplicitCAD. that's the nice part about having no users: no-one complains when i delay things to do it right. :)
<juri_> you could trop the output into a slicer, and diff the gcode instead.
<juri_> after all, the largest precision drop in a 3d printer chain is the 5 digits after the . in gcode.
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<Scopeuk> this is mostly the image tests rather than the stl's
<Scopeuk> there is a lot of floating point madness going on with set viewport position, set model position etc
<Scopeuk> but yes bieng small grants a lot of freedom
<Scopeuk> and also being the "single source of truth" for the project. no stake holders. I do not envy anyone trying to maintain a large scale project
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<juri_> problems you want. ;)
<Scopeuk> whilst it would be awesome to create something and have "everyone" want it I'm not sure I have the bandwidth or motivation to deal with people
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<gbruno> [github] gsohler synchronize pull request #4601 (Python delivered in tiny bites) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4601
<InPhase> guso78: I prefer my python in tiny bytes.
<guso78> haha. bites is meant to be more tasteful ...
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<guso78> PR is on the way.
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<lf94> InPhase: have you had any moments to touch the sdf stuff
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<linext> fyi, qemu has been ported to web assembly: https://bellard.org/jslinux/
<gbruno> [github] kintel closed pull request #4611 (Disable tests due to issue #4595) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4611
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 modifications (Disable tests due to issue #4595) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/a955aa511f90c6c7e51d8391a805f1a4f852c715
<buZz> linext: archive.org uses it too :) for old msdos games etc
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 modifications (Disable tests due to issue #4595 (#4611)) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/32dd5a6f05fc30954d3467ca4fe76cc0c1b8e56c
<gbruno> [github] kintel opened pull request #4611 (Disable tests due to issue #4595) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4611
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<Scopeuk> now if someone can just write a native js interpreter for hte raw hardware one of the things qemu emulates we can find a way to make chrome use even more ram
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<teepee> isn't that jslinux like 15 years old or something?
<teepee> also we need to rewrite everything in rust now
<teepee> > In 2011 I wrote the initial version of JSLinux, the first PC/x86 emulator in Javascript running Linux. I reused parts of another of my emulators (QEMU) for the x86 helpers and the devices.
<teepee> right, 12 years
<teepee> I thought that link looked familiar :)
<guso78> teepee, you relate to nodeJS ?
<teepee> no, that: <linext> fyi, qemu has been ported to web assembly: https://bellard.org/jslinux/
<guso78> ahh, will look into here
<teepee> it was not WASM obviously at that point, but that linux emulation in browser started long time ago
<linext> oh'
<linext> i booted into windows 2000
<guso78> i am just thrilled, that javascript is able to "emulate" complete linux ???
<buZz> guso78: no, a PC
<buZz> you can run windows in it too if you'd want
<buZz> oh jslinux, yeah i guess thats just kernel compiled to .js?
<guso78> is it processes locally or is it just displayed locally ?
<teepee> well, it's not javascript anymore
<teepee> I assume it's emulation running in your browser
<teepee> yes, qemu, like linext said
<buZz> hmhm
<buZz> guso78: its running in your webbrowser on your own pc
<buZz> open 'htop' during page open perhaps to see it :)
<buZz> teepee: its not qemu, its https://bellard.org/tinyemu/
<buZz> > The current version is based on TinyEMU and compiled to Javascript or WASM with emscripten.
<buZz> pretty cool :)
<teepee> well, it's the qemu author, so I'd call it a gray area :P
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<buZz> hahaha another of their projects ; https://bellard.org/dvbt/
<buZz> amazing
<buZz> oooo, they're also author of TinyGL
<buZz> legendary
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<gbruno> [github] kintel opened issue #4612 (Majority of tests require -DEXPERIMENTAL=ON) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4612
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<guso7886> kintel, is it possible to temporarily disable all gl optimisations and let openscad use Renderer::draw_triangle function ?
<gbruno> [github] t-paul pushed 1 additions 2 modifications (Add Flatpak beta repository.) https://github.com/openscad/openscad.github.com/commit/d4bc7b39ff8e61303b52a6323c73f593e00fccd3
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<guso78> can anybody explain to me, why libfive.dll built for windows is !!! 422 MBytes ?
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<buZz> rofl
<buZz> static compile i bet :D including half the known universe
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<guso78> no libfive appears to create a dll by default. I believe the dll file contains all space where SDF(x) > 0
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<guso78> just to make sure i am not drunk
<teepee> probably debug info, that really can blow up compile output to gigabytes
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<Lucas123> Hi, are there any OpenSCAD developers here?
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<buZz> any are
<buZz> dont ask to ask, just ask
<Lucas12329> I was thinking about a project that would require compiling openscad to a triangle mesh
<Lucas12329> preferably quite quickly
<Lucas12329> and without the whole GUI thing
<Lucas12329> how easy would it be to just pull the core geometry calculation functionality and include it in another project?
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<teepee> Lucas12329: that's what openscad does ;-)
<teepee> there's not specifically a library build, but the path scad-script -> mesh is possible via command line so it might be not too difficult to hook it into a different project
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<teepee> actually that could benefit the WASM version too I think
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<teepee> now the question is if there's any Lucas here :D
<Lucas123> yeah
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<teepee> so you missed part of the answer, maybe just click the logs link in the title
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<Lucas12369> trying to find that
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<Lucas123> seems none of what I just wrote sent
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<Lucas12334> I'll have a look and see if I can make a fork that strips out everything I don't want
<Lucas12334> will just find the command line interface bit and start deleting from there
<teepee> using the headless flag should give you most of the changes already
<Lucas12334> though 27MB isn't too bad, might just shove the whole thing in
<Lucas12334> every compile is from scratch right?
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<teepee> in command line mode, yes currently
<teepee> gui uses a cache, but persistent cache is still an open PR
<Lucas12383> are there optimisations when using the GUI
<Lucas12383> is the lack of a persistent cache related to the incompatability I found with dropbox
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<teepee> not that I know of, it nobody had the time to finish up things
<teepee> there are some open issues with links and volumes on windows, I don't know if those are connected to dropbox issues
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<Lucas123> dammit libra
<linext> i found a case yesterday where manifold rendering failed and cgal worked
<teepee> seems to be some very angry network going on :)
<teepee> linext: very last version?
<linext> 2023.03.30
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<teepee> yep, too old :)
<Lucas12314> anyway, that's given me a place to start, would stay and chat but I'm getting pretty frustrated
<Lucas12314> thanks
<teepee> linext: you want newer than https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/4599
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<teepee> Lucas12314: there's a matrix bridge, maybe that's more stable
<Lucas12314> = IRC thing
<Lucas12314> ? (don't really use IRC)
<teepee> you can connect to this IRC room via the Matrix network
<teepee> https://matrix.to/#/#openscad:libera.chat
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<LucasWilkins[m]> maybe this will be better
<InPhase> Welcome back.
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<teepee> yep, hopefully that helps, although I have not seen it that bad
<anotherlucas[m]> could be my end
<anotherlucas[m]> though doesn't seem so
<InPhase> Yeah, IRC does require a connection without regular drop outs.
<anotherlucas[m]> I just did 8hrs of zooming, and that was fine
<InPhase> Web browsing can end up not noticeably affected by this sort of thing, and many other services reconnect more gracefully.
<teepee> those things usually don't even do connects :)
<anotherlucas[m]> did you ever use thigniverse when it supported parametric models?
<anotherlucas[m]> any idea how they hooked it in?
<teepee> server process, a very old earlier version of the code is still hanging around on github
<anotherlucas[m]> using the aforementioned headless option?
<teepee> people still do that, like cadhub.xyz (down currently) and models@makewithtech
<teepee> I don't know, could be a normal build
<JordanBrown[m]> teepee: Web browsing does connects... but generally not for very long.
<teepee> web browsing yes, I meant video conferencing
<JordanBrown[m]> anotherlucas: I have been very happy with Matrix. It doesn't care if I drop out. I can I turn the computer off, and when I turn it on I can read what people wrote.
<teepee> actually I'm not sure the old versions thingiverse used/uses had headless working
<JordanBrown[m]> teepee: Sorry, sometimes it's hard to tell exactly what a response is to.
<teepee> no worries :)
<anotherlucas[m]> So, just to fill you in on what I'm thinking about doing, I'm thinking of putting a general parametric shape model into some physics software I work on
<anotherlucas[m]> www.sasview.org
<anotherlucas[m]> the software would have to grab hold of parameters from the script, and modify them in its model fitting routines
<anotherlucas[m]> it would have to recompute the geometry quite a lot
<anotherlucas[m]> so, the caching would be good, though most of the shapes would be very simple, and probably not cacheable