teepee changed the topic of #openscad to: OpenSCAD - The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller | This channel is logged! | Website: http://www.openscad.org/ | FAQ: https://goo.gl/pcT7y3 | Request features / report bugs: https://goo.gl/lj0JRI | Tutorial: https://bit.ly/37P6z0B | Books: https://bit.ly/3xlLcQq | FOSDEM 2020: https://bit.ly/35xZGy6 | Logs: https://bit.ly/32MfbH5
<peeps[zen]> InPhase: something to do with how templates are resolved?
<InPhase> peeps[zen]: I considered it, but didn't dive into it. However that sounds sketchy because generally template specializations are supposed to be available within the translation unit to be utilized.
<InPhase> peeps[zen]: So, something seemed sketchy, but I got distracted and stopped looking.
<peeps[zen]> style question since I've seen it both ways in different files: should I use "--quoted_includes_first when sorting includes, place quoted ones first."
<peeps[zen]> eh, maybe getting ahead of myself, still working on that benchmark
* teepee prefers quoted last for some reason, basically system stuff first, custom later
<InPhase> I do quoted last. You're less likely to get unstable results from system libraries.
<InPhase> Local stuff first will cause those insanities like where you have one of those "must include this first" Windows include requirements, and you accidentally put something out of order in file D.h which is included in C.h which is included in B.h which is included in A.h and then A.cpp malfunctions.
<InPhase> And good luck to you in finding it!
JakeSays has joined #openscad
J1A846168 has joined #openscad
J1A8461 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
teepee_ has joined #openscad
teepee has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
teepee_ is now known as teepee
<peeps[zen]> InPhase: I finally applied iwyu changes successfully, but all those extra-specific /detail/ includes etc are breaking the build.
<InPhase> Unfortunate.
<peeps[zen]> seems like it doesn't understand macro defines as something being "used"
<InPhase> Bug report to iwyu? ;)
<InPhase> Offer them our codebase as a testcase! ;)
<InPhase> Then once they fine-tune it to our codebase, we can use the result.
LordOfBikes has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<WenxuanZhao[m]> J1A846168: hi,your library is from website ?can i ask ?
LordOfBikes has joined #openscad
Guest38 has joined #openscad
<JordanBrown[m]> I believe he's in Europe, so it's about 0540 for him.
<InPhase> Germany.
<InPhase> WenxuanZhao[m]: You're looking for this? https://github.com/UBaer21/UB.scad
<InPhase> WenxuanZhao[m]: So that above link is J1A846168's main library, but his posted models are I think mostly here: https://www.printables.com/social/167780-jack/models
<InPhase> As you can see he is uncommonly prolific with large numbers of variations of things. :)
epony has joined #openscad
epony has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
epony has joined #openscad
LordOfBikes has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
LordOfBikes has joined #openscad
ur5us has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<WenxuanZhao[m]> I can see he made so many variations of thing s
<JordanBrown[m]> InPhase is in Pennsylvania, US, so it's 0206 for him.
ur5us has joined #openscad
<JordanBrown[m]> OK, so I know that none of the core developers will see this for hours, but...
<JordanBrown[m]> My 2021.01 install has gotten flakey recently. It has started opening the Error Log by default, even though I keep closing it and/or disabling it from the menu. Sometimes (as just now) it hangs on shutdown. I suppose that it's possible that something has changed incompatibly in Windows, but my suspicion is that one of the nightly snapshots has done something to the registry preferences that 2021.01 doesn't like. I've renamed that
<JordanBrown[m]> Registry subtree out of the way; we'll see if it gets better.
J1A846168 is now known as J1A84
<JordanBrown[m]> (So far so good.)
<J1A84> WenxuanZhao[m]  Hi .. your question was answered to your satisfaction?
<JordanBrown[m]> J1A84 what TZ are you in?
<J1A84> UCT+1
<J1A84> 7:19 now
<J1A84> (just switched to winter time)
<JordanBrown[m]> Is all of Germany UTC+1?
<J1A84> yes small country only uses one TZ
<JordanBrown[m]> We have states that are comparable in size that are split between two TZs, so it wasn't inconceivable.
<J1A84> more or less of Europe is one TZ  (certainly except the UK )
<JordanBrown[m]> Huh, so geographically France and Spain should be in UTC+0, but stick with most of the rest of Europe in UTC+1.
fling has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
little_blossom has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<J1A84> yeah  i mean  when we take the sun  that we also have about 30 minutes offset in germany
<JordanBrown[m]> For really silly time zones, check out this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_the_United_States#/media/File:AZTZ.png
<JordanBrown[m]> The big sort of beige area is Arizona. It should nominally be in Mountain Time, UTC-7, but does not observe what we call DST and you call summer time.
<J1A84> oh its 45minutes at max locations east/west
<J1A84> I like Troll time
<JordanBrown[m]> The yellow area in its northeast corner is the Navajo Nation, a Native American enclave.
<JordanBrown[m]> They *do* observe DST.
<JordanBrown[m]> But the beige area inside that is the Hopi Nation, which does *not* observe DST.
KimK_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<J1A84> ok that looks terrible for travellers why was that made?
<JordanBrown[m]> Who knows. Politics, I'm sure.
<JordanBrown[m]> That's all pretty desolate territory, but there is a highway that runs through all three.
<J1A84> i mean US also swtiches summertime a week offset or
KimK has joined #openscad
<J1A84> and maybe we get rid of it (hopefully)
<JordanBrown[m]> And every twenty years or so changes the schedule.
<JordanBrown[m]> Yeah, we're discussing moving to fulltime DST. Which seems silly to me; I mean, if you're going to go fulltime one way or the other, go the way that the map tells you to go.
<J1A84> All my clocks running UCT+1 all year Ü
<J1A84> (manual clocks)
ur5us has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<J1A84> swatch time is a nice idea ..
fling has joined #openscad
<J1A84> i mean we are already away from everybody work at 7 to 5
<JordanBrown[m]> I have a friend from Arizona who gave me his perspective on it. He's from Phoenix. Phoenix is noted for being hot. (Average daily high in July and August is 41C.) He says that DST exists so that there's more sunlight in the evening after work, so you can do stuff. In Arizona, they don't want more useful sunlight, because they want to wait until it gets dark and the temperature starts to get more reasonable.
<J1A84> if i check spain .. school already starts 1h later what makes sense ( ok 3h later would be better for all pupils)
<J1A84> but in general (except Troll station) the difference of time between solstices is 5h or so
<JordanBrown[m]> We had all-year DST for a year or so in the 1970s when I was ~13. It was awful; it was dark when we were going to school. That lasted about a week before they moved school start later.
<J1A84> guess timezones are just for fragmentation https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du9AWvjU8AAgVYp.jpg
<JordanBrown[m]> That's an interesting map.
<J1A84> yeah i think we shouldn't change time but change school hours .. shouldn't start before 10  (science showed that knowledge acquired before is just lost)
<JordanBrown[m]> There's been a lot of discussion of that around here.
<JordanBrown[m]> My bet is that the problem is not what time your class is, but how long you've been awake.
<JordanBrown[m]> I fear that if we move classes an hour later, it will just mean that the students stay up an hour later at night, wake up an hour later in the morning, and then we're back where we were.
<JordanBrown[m]> Few people are going to stick with the same bedtime if the school-start time gets an hour later. My guess is that the only people who will are those where the kids' schedules have to tie to the adults' schedules, and so since Mom is the ride to school, and Mom has to leave the house at <time>...
<J1A84> you are right that humans will do stupid things .. but  the sun is generating a cycle due to melanin destruction -  i always wake up when sun is shining
Guest38 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
<JordanBrown[m]> But is it better than not doing it?
<J1A84> and more  when i switched my big monitor to  warm colors for evening (less blue) i got tired much sooner
<JordanBrown[m]> Fulltime DST will play merry hell with that during the winter...
<J1A84> if your day is working against the circadian https://nigms.nih.gov/education/fact-sheets/Pages/Circadian-Rhythms.aspx   it causes stress
<JordanBrown[m]> I believe it.
<J1A84> yeah DST is already the wrong time .. shouldn't be used .. but in the end all are just numbers, only bad for people that need to be at work at 7
<JordanBrown[m]> I'm not sure which answer is the least wrong.
<JordanBrown[m]> We could all use UTC, and then we would all agree on what time it is now... but nobody would agree what time (or even range of times) is sleeping time.
<J1A84> so would be great if children have 50% free selectable AI classes they can choose when to take - and a core around noon
<JordanBrown[m]> Maybe. One of the important things that school teaches is structure, because for most jobs you will need to conform to a schedule.
<J1A84> UTC is great for 0 longitude  as there at 12 sun is at its highest point
<JordanBrown[m]> When I was a kid I thought school was about learning the material. My current estimate is that learning the material is only about a third.
<JordanBrown[m]> (Here I'm talking about pre-college school.)
<J1A84> today you teach "independent work"  so  pupils learn to organize their time by themself
<JordanBrown[m]> Yeah, and I wonder how well they do when they get into a 9-5 job...
<J1A84> (that is why i said 50%  core time - as you can't leave them completely alone)
<JordanBrown[m]> yes
<J1A84> The  purpose of school has shifted -  it was made to create worker  but today we need thinker
<J1A84> most of the 9-5 jobs can be done by robots or automatisation
<JordanBrown[m]> Some. But a lot of people still stand in front of a cash register, or swing a hammer.
<JordanBrown[m]> I'm breaking down and building a spreadsheet that maps real names to IRC names and e-mail names.
<J1A84> doesn't matter when you swing your hammer ..  and if you see amazon supermarkets
<J1A84> where your cart is doing all the cashier work
<JordanBrown[m]> You have to swing the hammer when the other hammer-swingers are doing it, and when the client wants you there, and when the prerequisites are all done.
<JordanBrown[m]> And yes, automation changes a lot of things.
<J1A84> yes coordinated work start is important
KimK has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<JordanBrown[m]> That Amazon Fresh is 3.7km from my house.
<J1A84> i had the discussion as (a while ago) i worked lot with US people  so i started at 11  and stayed till 20
<J1A84> while my colleagues started at 7 and left at 17
<J1A84> oh .. did you tried it out ?
<JordanBrown[m]> No, I haven't yet. For what are at this point mostly historical reasons, we do the bulk of our grocery shopping at Costco.
<JordanBrown[m]> And there's another market that's only about 1.3km.
<J1A84> i do all my shopping by foot  (15min)
<JordanBrown[m]> That Amazon Fresh used to be a Whole Foods, and my perception is that Whole Foods means pricey and new-age-y.
<JordanBrown[m]> I like my foods in containers with lots of preservatives :-)
<J1A84> yes and amazon is not something i like to support .. however would be interesting how people perceive that shopping .. an older try of amazon was using cameras at the shelfs and seemed that didn't work out so well.
<J1A84> you can get container for home delivery https://i.redd.it/7b70xy48h0x91.jpg  Ü
<JordanBrown[m]> Do you happen to know who ScopeUK is?
<J1A84> nope .. i assumed something in UK
<JordanBrown[m]> Presumably.
<J1A84> his host seems to be in europe
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<JordanBrown[m]> Well, speaking of TZs, it's getting to be my bedtime.
epony has joined #openscad
<J1A84> have a good night then
ur5us has joined #openscad
LordOfBikes has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
LordOfBikes has joined #openscad
<JordanBrown[m]> Thanks. G'nite.
<WenxuanZhao[m]> InPhase: J1A84 I get the library ty:)
<J1A84> if you ran into trouble using it .. let me know
ur5us has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
ur5us has joined #openscad
<WenxuanZhao[m]> You use windows ?
stevieh has joined #openscad
lastrodamo has joined #openscad
<WenxuanZhao[m]> It is convenient because I have little time facing computer
<WenxuanZhao[m]> Can you tell me where I put the library in?I use ubuntu on my phone
<J1A84> yes windows
<J1A84> either your user profile or the open scad installation folder contain a folder "libraries"
<J1A84> also the folder of your saved sketch works
<J1A84> the top section of the library contains the path and instructions where to save it
ur5us has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
splud has quit [Quit: Leaving]
splud has joined #openscad
little_blossom has joined #openscad
foul_owl has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
castaway has joined #openscad
foul_owl has joined #openscad
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<gbruno> [github] rwb27 edited issue #4401 (Relative path failure in CSG export on Windows) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4401
epony has joined #openscad
LordOfBikes has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
LordOfBikes has joined #openscad
TheCoffeMaker has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
TheCoffeMaker has joined #openscad
KimK has joined #openscad
little_blossom has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
little_blossom has joined #openscad
voxpelli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
voxpelli has joined #openscad
stevieh has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
foul_owl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
epony has joined #openscad
foul_owl has joined #openscad
LordOfBikes has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
LordOfBikes has joined #openscad
stevieh has joined #openscad
<WenxuanZhao[m]> Thanks ,i successfully removed it to library folder
<J1A84> just rename it  - delete the "(2)"  else it will not work with include<ub.scad>
<WenxuanZhao[m]> Ohh thanks!
<WenxuanZhao[m]> I thought why it didn't work
<WenxuanZhao[m]> Now it work
pie_ has quit []
pie_ has joined #openscad
<J1A84> great Ü
<WenxuanZhao[m]> Yes👍
KimK_ has joined #openscad
KimK has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<InPhase> WenxuanZhao[m]: Are you running OpenSCAD on your phone?
<Scopeuk> InPhase the link has "vnc viewer" in the title, I'm guessing remoted into a desktop linux system
<InPhase> Ah.
<Scopeuk> it would be awesome to get up and running on Android but qt's cross compatibility isn't quite good enough to "give it for free"
teepee_ has joined #openscad
teepee has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
teepee_ is now known as teepee
epony has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
epony has joined #openscad
stevieh has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
stevieh has joined #openscad
Guest906 has joined #openscad
Guest48 has joined #openscad
Guest48 has quit [Client Quit]
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
pie_ has joined #openscad
stevieh has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
stevieh has joined #openscad
foul_owl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
foul_owl has joined #openscad
pie_ has quit []
pie_ has joined #openscad
Guest906 has left #openscad [#openscad]
J1A84 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
J1A84 has joined #openscad
Guest38 has joined #openscad
Guest38 has quit [Client Quit]
pie_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pie_ has joined #openscad
<Virindi> oh my gosh, openscad on a phone, I can't even imagine that. even typing normal things on a phone is painful
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<J1A84> Wireless keyboard ..
epony has joined #openscad
stevieh has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
stevieh has joined #openscad
<InPhase> I've used my phone with a USB hub with full keyboard, mouse, and ethernet, and this is kind of properly usable.
<InPhase> My USB hub for that also supports a monitor, although I didn't have a spare monitor when I tested this. But presumably that would make it almost a proper computer.
<InPhase> Oh, and USB headphones with microphone, that can go on the hub as well and helps.
<InPhase> The android web browser, for example, actually gives you a mouse cursor when you plug in a mouse, and you can click on things the normal way.
epony has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
epony has joined #openscad
<teepee> that pretty much counts as desktop then :P
<teepee> which is actually not a bad idea considering the processing power of recent phones, but with all that walled gardens going on it's probably never really going to happen
<InPhase> Yeah. I would really like a proper Linux phone for doing that.
<Scopeuk> there as some fairly nice "held" keyboard mouse combos
<Scopeuk> there are afew linux phones about but they all lack a little something
<InPhase> Yeah, that's what I keep hearing, so I haven't obtained one.
<InPhase> Ultimately I need it for a phone more than I need it as a tiny pocket computer I can plug into a docking station. :) But it would be a great feature to get soon.
stevieh has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<peeps[zen]> i am still looking at IWYU, determined to at least get a build to run. I found that it actually comes with a number of .imp (mapping files, eg for boost, stl headers etc.)
<peeps[zen]> then I wrote one for Eigen which wasn't too bad
<peeps[zen]> Been cleaning up some of the problematic CGAL mappings one at a time... now there's the double whammy of <CGAL/boost/...
<peeps[zen]> JordanBrown[m]> I'd say that you should expect including B to get you D's stuff only if B is documented to get you D's stuff.
<peeps[zen]> problem is that's not feasible for an automated tool to grok documentation across all libraries
<peeps[zen]> trying to deal with lots of other annoying issues like: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/15191361/boostq-foreach-has-not-been-declared
<peeps[zen]> one of the solutions to which is to build with QT_NO_KEYWORDS, which you then have to replace signals,slots,emit with Q_SIGNALS,Q_SLOTS,Q_EMIT, etc. but then QsciScintilla system headers still use "signals" "slots" so i guess that's a deadend
<peeps[zen]> the other solution is that I think QObject just has to be included before boost headers. so just manually reordering any of those affected files after applying IWYU
<peeps[zen]> also have to manually fix all the places where this required ordering is broken: https://github.com/openscad/openscad/blob/master/src/geometry/cgal/cgal.h#L17
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
epony has joined #openscad
teepee_ has joined #openscad
teepee has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
teepee_ is now known as teepee
ur5us has joined #openscad
snaked has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<Scopeuk> InPhase yeh would be nice to have solid phone on Linux as apposed to something that is Linux in a phone form factor
<peeps[zen]> Eigen is very easy to tell which headers are intended as "public". basically any file directly under Eigen/[name], and they have corresponding paths to private headers: Eigen/src/[name]/ so the mapping is straightforward
<peeps[zen]> CGAL on the other hand...
<peeps[zen]> gotta scrape the docs of every package to find out which header is recommended for each class
<teepee> oh, my :(
<teepee> that sounds like a massive effort
ur5us has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ur5us has joined #openscad
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
epony has joined #openscad
stevieh has joined #openscad
stevieh has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
lastrodamo has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<peeps[zen]> teepee: regarding the ordering of <> system includes going before "" ones, does that even include that unit's header eg. #include "Foo.h" from Foo.cc ?
<teepee> peeps[zen]: that's what I've used, but I have not any official recommendation about that
<teepee> not seeing much about that in the core guidelines
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
epony has joined #openscad