<peeps[zen]>
InPhase: something to do with how templates are resolved?
<InPhase>
peeps[zen]: I considered it, but didn't dive into it. However that sounds sketchy because generally template specializations are supposed to be available within the translation unit to be utilized.
<InPhase>
peeps[zen]: So, something seemed sketchy, but I got distracted and stopped looking.
<peeps[zen]>
style question since I've seen it both ways in different files: should I use "--quoted_includes_first when sorting includes, place quoted ones first."
<peeps[zen]>
eh, maybe getting ahead of myself, still working on that benchmark
* teepee
prefers quoted last for some reason, basically system stuff first, custom later
<InPhase>
I do quoted last. You're less likely to get unstable results from system libraries.
<InPhase>
Local stuff first will cause those insanities like where you have one of those "must include this first" Windows include requirements, and you accidentally put something out of order in file D.h which is included in C.h which is included in B.h which is included in A.h and then A.cpp malfunctions.
<InPhase>
And good luck to you in finding it!
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<peeps[zen]>
InPhase: I finally applied iwyu changes successfully, but all those extra-specific /detail/ includes etc are breaking the build.
<InPhase>
Unfortunate.
<peeps[zen]>
seems like it doesn't understand macro defines as something being "used"
<InPhase>
Bug report to iwyu? ;)
<InPhase>
Offer them our codebase as a testcase! ;)
<InPhase>
Then once they fine-tune it to our codebase, we can use the result.
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<WenxuanZhao[m]>
J1A846168: hi,your library is from website ?can i ask ?
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<JordanBrown[m]>
I believe he's in Europe, so it's about 0540 for him.
<InPhase>
As you can see he is uncommonly prolific with large numbers of variations of things. :)
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<WenxuanZhao[m]>
I can see he made so many variations of thing s
<JordanBrown[m]>
InPhase is in Pennsylvania, US, so it's 0206 for him.
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<JordanBrown[m]>
OK, so I know that none of the core developers will see this for hours, but...
<JordanBrown[m]>
My 2021.01 install has gotten flakey recently. It has started opening the Error Log by default, even though I keep closing it and/or disabling it from the menu. Sometimes (as just now) it hangs on shutdown. I suppose that it's possible that something has changed incompatibly in Windows, but my suspicion is that one of the nightly snapshots has done something to the registry preferences that 2021.01 doesn't like. I've renamed that
<JordanBrown[m]>
Registry subtree out of the way; we'll see if it gets better.
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<JordanBrown[m]>
(So far so good.)
<J1A84>
WenxuanZhao[m] Hi .. your question was answered to your satisfaction?
<JordanBrown[m]>
J1A84 what TZ are you in?
<J1A84>
UCT+1
<J1A84>
7:19 now
<J1A84>
(just switched to winter time)
<JordanBrown[m]>
Is all of Germany UTC+1?
<J1A84>
yes small country only uses one TZ
<JordanBrown[m]>
We have states that are comparable in size that are split between two TZs, so it wasn't inconceivable.
<JordanBrown[m]>
The big sort of beige area is Arizona. It should nominally be in Mountain Time, UTC-7, but does not observe what we call DST and you call summer time.
<J1A84>
oh its 45minutes at max locations east/west
<J1A84>
I like Troll time
<JordanBrown[m]>
The yellow area in its northeast corner is the Navajo Nation, a Native American enclave.
<JordanBrown[m]>
They *do* observe DST.
<JordanBrown[m]>
But the beige area inside that is the Hopi Nation, which does *not* observe DST.
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<J1A84>
ok that looks terrible for travellers why was that made?
<JordanBrown[m]>
Who knows. Politics, I'm sure.
<JordanBrown[m]>
That's all pretty desolate territory, but there is a highway that runs through all three.
<J1A84>
i mean US also swtiches summertime a week offset or
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<J1A84>
and maybe we get rid of it (hopefully)
<JordanBrown[m]>
And every twenty years or so changes the schedule.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Yeah, we're discussing moving to fulltime DST. Which seems silly to me; I mean, if you're going to go fulltime one way or the other, go the way that the map tells you to go.
<J1A84>
All my clocks running UCT+1 all year Ü
<J1A84>
(manual clocks)
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<J1A84>
swatch time is a nice idea ..
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<J1A84>
i mean we are already away from everybody work at 7 to 5
<JordanBrown[m]>
I have a friend from Arizona who gave me his perspective on it. He's from Phoenix. Phoenix is noted for being hot. (Average daily high in July and August is 41C.) He says that DST exists so that there's more sunlight in the evening after work, so you can do stuff. In Arizona, they don't want more useful sunlight, because they want to wait until it gets dark and the temperature starts to get more reasonable.
<J1A84>
if i check spain .. school already starts 1h later what makes sense ( ok 3h later would be better for all pupils)
<J1A84>
but in general (except Troll station) the difference of time between solstices is 5h or so
<JordanBrown[m]>
We had all-year DST for a year or so in the 1970s when I was ~13. It was awful; it was dark when we were going to school. That lasted about a week before they moved school start later.
<J1A84>
yeah i think we shouldn't change time but change school hours .. shouldn't start before 10 (science showed that knowledge acquired before is just lost)
<JordanBrown[m]>
There's been a lot of discussion of that around here.
<JordanBrown[m]>
My bet is that the problem is not what time your class is, but how long you've been awake.
<JordanBrown[m]>
I fear that if we move classes an hour later, it will just mean that the students stay up an hour later at night, wake up an hour later in the morning, and then we're back where we were.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Few people are going to stick with the same bedtime if the school-start time gets an hour later. My guess is that the only people who will are those where the kids' schedules have to tie to the adults' schedules, and so since Mom is the ride to school, and Mom has to leave the house at <time>...
<J1A84>
you are right that humans will do stupid things .. but the sun is generating a cycle due to melanin destruction - i always wake up when sun is shining
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<JordanBrown[m]>
But is it better than not doing it?
<J1A84>
and more when i switched my big monitor to warm colors for evening (less blue) i got tired much sooner
<JordanBrown[m]>
Fulltime DST will play merry hell with that during the winter...
<J1A84>
yeah DST is already the wrong time .. shouldn't be used .. but in the end all are just numbers, only bad for people that need to be at work at 7
<JordanBrown[m]>
I'm not sure which answer is the least wrong.
<JordanBrown[m]>
We could all use UTC, and then we would all agree on what time it is now... but nobody would agree what time (or even range of times) is sleeping time.
<J1A84>
so would be great if children have 50% free selectable AI classes they can choose when to take - and a core around noon
<JordanBrown[m]>
Maybe. One of the important things that school teaches is structure, because for most jobs you will need to conform to a schedule.
<J1A84>
UTC is great for 0 longitude as there at 12 sun is at its highest point
<JordanBrown[m]>
When I was a kid I thought school was about learning the material. My current estimate is that learning the material is only about a third.
<JordanBrown[m]>
(Here I'm talking about pre-college school.)
<J1A84>
today you teach "independent work" so pupils learn to organize their time by themself
<JordanBrown[m]>
Yeah, and I wonder how well they do when they get into a 9-5 job...
<J1A84>
(that is why i said 50% core time - as you can't leave them completely alone)
<JordanBrown[m]>
yes
<J1A84>
The purpose of school has shifted - it was made to create worker but today we need thinker
<J1A84>
most of the 9-5 jobs can be done by robots or automatisation
<JordanBrown[m]>
Some. But a lot of people still stand in front of a cash register, or swing a hammer.
<JordanBrown[m]>
I'm breaking down and building a spreadsheet that maps real names to IRC names and e-mail names.
<J1A84>
doesn't matter when you swing your hammer .. and if you see amazon supermarkets
<J1A84>
where your cart is doing all the cashier work
<JordanBrown[m]>
You have to swing the hammer when the other hammer-swingers are doing it, and when the client wants you there, and when the prerequisites are all done.
<JordanBrown[m]>
And yes, automation changes a lot of things.
<J1A84>
yes coordinated work start is important
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<JordanBrown[m]>
That Amazon Fresh is 3.7km from my house.
<J1A84>
i had the discussion as (a while ago) i worked lot with US people so i started at 11 and stayed till 20
<J1A84>
while my colleagues started at 7 and left at 17
<J1A84>
oh .. did you tried it out ?
<JordanBrown[m]>
No, I haven't yet. For what are at this point mostly historical reasons, we do the bulk of our grocery shopping at Costco.
<JordanBrown[m]>
And there's another market that's only about 1.3km.
<J1A84>
i do all my shopping by foot (15min)
<JordanBrown[m]>
That Amazon Fresh used to be a Whole Foods, and my perception is that Whole Foods means pricey and new-age-y.
<JordanBrown[m]>
I like my foods in containers with lots of preservatives :-)
<J1A84>
yes and amazon is not something i like to support .. however would be interesting how people perceive that shopping .. an older try of amazon was using cameras at the shelfs and seemed that didn't work out so well.
<WenxuanZhao[m]>
Thanks ,i successfully removed it to library folder
<J1A84>
just rename it - delete the "(2)" else it will not work with include<ub.scad>
<WenxuanZhao[m]>
Ohh thanks!
<WenxuanZhao[m]>
I thought why it didn't work
<WenxuanZhao[m]>
Now it work
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<J1A84>
great Ü
<WenxuanZhao[m]>
Yes👍
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<InPhase>
WenxuanZhao[m]: Are you running OpenSCAD on your phone?
<Scopeuk>
InPhase the link has "vnc viewer" in the title, I'm guessing remoted into a desktop linux system
<InPhase>
Ah.
<Scopeuk>
it would be awesome to get up and running on Android but qt's cross compatibility isn't quite good enough to "give it for free"
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<Virindi>
oh my gosh, openscad on a phone, I can't even imagine that. even typing normal things on a phone is painful
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<J1A84>
Wireless keyboard ..
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<InPhase>
I've used my phone with a USB hub with full keyboard, mouse, and ethernet, and this is kind of properly usable.
<InPhase>
My USB hub for that also supports a monitor, although I didn't have a spare monitor when I tested this. But presumably that would make it almost a proper computer.
<InPhase>
Oh, and USB headphones with microphone, that can go on the hub as well and helps.
<InPhase>
The android web browser, for example, actually gives you a mouse cursor when you plug in a mouse, and you can click on things the normal way.
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<teepee>
that pretty much counts as desktop then :P
<teepee>
which is actually not a bad idea considering the processing power of recent phones, but with all that walled gardens going on it's probably never really going to happen
<InPhase>
Yeah. I would really like a proper Linux phone for doing that.
<Scopeuk>
there as some fairly nice "held" keyboard mouse combos
<Scopeuk>
there are afew linux phones about but they all lack a little something
<InPhase>
Yeah, that's what I keep hearing, so I haven't obtained one.
<InPhase>
Ultimately I need it for a phone more than I need it as a tiny pocket computer I can plug into a docking station. :) But it would be a great feature to get soon.
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<peeps[zen]>
i am still looking at IWYU, determined to at least get a build to run. I found that it actually comes with a number of .imp (mapping files, eg for boost, stl headers etc.)
<peeps[zen]>
then I wrote one for Eigen which wasn't too bad
<peeps[zen]>
Been cleaning up some of the problematic CGAL mappings one at a time... now there's the double whammy of <CGAL/boost/...
<peeps[zen]>
JordanBrown[m]> I'd say that you should expect including B to get you D's stuff only if B is documented to get you D's stuff.
<peeps[zen]>
problem is that's not feasible for an automated tool to grok documentation across all libraries
<peeps[zen]>
one of the solutions to which is to build with QT_NO_KEYWORDS, which you then have to replace signals,slots,emit with Q_SIGNALS,Q_SLOTS,Q_EMIT, etc. but then QsciScintilla system headers still use "signals" "slots" so i guess that's a deadend
<peeps[zen]>
the other solution is that I think QObject just has to be included before boost headers. so just manually reordering any of those affected files after applying IWYU
<Scopeuk>
InPhase yeh would be nice to have solid phone on Linux as apposed to something that is Linux in a phone form factor
<peeps[zen]>
Eigen is very easy to tell which headers are intended as "public". basically any file directly under Eigen/[name], and they have corresponding paths to private headers: Eigen/src/[name]/ so the mapping is straightforward
<peeps[zen]>
CGAL on the other hand...
<peeps[zen]>
gotta scrape the docs of every package to find out which header is recommended for each class
<teepee>
oh, my :(
<teepee>
that sounds like a massive effort
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<peeps[zen]>
teepee: regarding the ordering of <> system includes going before "" ones, does that even include that unit's header eg. #include "Foo.h" from Foo.cc ?
<teepee>
peeps[zen]: that's what I've used, but I have not any official recommendation about that
<teepee>
not seeing much about that in the core guidelines