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<sad_plan>
ilt: Ive not bothered to see if others fit my case. this one I knew fit. I have a 2.9L case, so im pretty restricted sizewise :p
<kris_>
sad_plan fun new toys
<kris_>
building systemd-boot-efistub is about to put me under
<sad_plan>
well, yes. I had fun building it. not so fun wrecking my first gpu though :p
<kris_>
what did you do to it?
<sad_plan>
I managed to scrape of 5 caps, so I tried to return it, which they didnt wanna do. so I started to stresstest it, so see if it was atleast stable, which it appeared to be. so when I put the case back together again, I scraped of another piece. not sure what it was, but it seemed to just pop right off really..
<sad_plan>
which ended up with it not working. So i thrashed it and bought a new one
<sad_plan>
s/thrashed/trashed
<kris_>
....that is unbelievably unfortunate
<kris_>
another 4060?
<sad_plan>
yes and yes
<sad_plan>
the fit is incredibly tight, so im not supprised I managed to ruin things though
<kris_>
kinda glad i have a comedically large case
<sad_plan>
theres basically no space between the case, and the back of the gpu
<sad_plan>
I can see the benfits of a large case, but Ive hated mine for a really long time. it just didnt appeal to me really
<kris_>
yeah i get that, i just kinda need a 360mm radiatior for my CPU
<sad_plan>
although mine seems to be even tighter that that actually
<sad_plan>
I had to put some electrical tape underneath, just to be sure
<kris_>
>why though? keeping my core ultra 7 265k at reasonable temps
<kris_>
at stock i'd probably be able to get away with a decent 280mm rad
<sad_plan>
ah yes, intel and their unreasonable heatmaking
<kris_>
naw, this thing has 20 cores, it's rational for it to require a good amount of cooling
<kris_>
20 actual cores, not 20 threads
<sad_plan>
well, sure, but intel is still notorious for running hotter than amd
<kris_>
i've given up on amd cpus / their platform in general being stable
<kris_>
so i'll just eat my temps
<sad_plan>
oh? never really had any issues with those. amd now in new desktop, and amd in my laptop. had an intel cpu in my old desktop though
<kris_>
they have a few issues, usb dropouts is probably the most common
<sad_plan>
hm. never encountered that tbh
<kris_>
the other 50/50 reproducible one on at least desktop chips is that they'll stop POSTing period if you reboot them too many times too quickly, i hit this one on my server often
<kris_>
memory compatibility is another concern
<sad_plan>
I see
<kris_>
as for the POST issues my absolute shot in the dark guess is that there's something in the chipset getting used only during POST, getting warm, and expanding
<sad_plan>
all valid concerns. I must be lucky then I suppose
<kris_>
it's chipset and generation agnostic seemingly so, whatever
<kris_>
i mean if it works well for you i fr am glad because assuming they work well id rather have an amd chip too
<sad_plan>
I suppose you might be the unlucky one, seeing as amd is still in business
<sad_plan>
if their products was faulty, people wouldnt have bought them :p
<kris_>
eh, of course this is a "take my word for it" type of deal but these are all consistent issues a lot of my friends also face
<kris_>
not all, but a good chunk
<sad_plan>
hm. wierd
<kris_>
in terms of actual failures, i had two athlon 64s of some sort fail prematurely back in the day, an fx 8320, a mobile turion, and a ryzen 5 3600 that failed in <a year
<kris_>
that RMA'd 3600 is what's currently in my server and i've honestly got it locked at baseclock because i just don't trust it
<sad_plan>
damn. thats a lot
<sad_plan>
I have a 7600 in my desktop now, and a 3700 in my laptop, which ive been using for over 5 years now. no issues
<kris_>
shrug, maybe i am just genuinely otherworldly unlucky
<sad_plan>
perhaps, but seeing as many of your friends face the same issues, it cant be a coicidence
<kris_>
kiss specific question, is there any actual documentation for alternatives?
<sad_plan>
yes. I missed the 1.2 section actually. that was the one I was thinking about
<kris_>
committing the ultimate crime and replacing busybox with coreutils
<sad_plan>
lol, some people like the GNU utils. others dont. its all down to preference/needs really :p
<sad_plan>
personally I use sbase/ubase using oasis really
<kris_>
i just stumbled upon kiss a few days ago so i'm sorting some things out still
<kris_>
primarily packaging UKI stuffs to avoid using a bootloader
<sad_plan>
what? why not just use EFI stub? requires nothing so to speak
<kris_>
i bundle my kernel/initrd/cpu ucode/cmdline in one file and then self-sign for secure boot
<kris_>
generally
<sad_plan>
do you need initram though? cant you build everything into the kernel?
<kris_>
eliminates certain types of attacks and requires only 1 file be exposed on the disk non encrypted
<kris_>
getting to that aspect, given a world where i can use that to decrypt my / and have only that single file exposed that works as well
<kris_>
the whole point is to just have one thing protected by my UEFI
<kris_>
also, microcode without an initrd?
<sad_plan>
yes, just build everything into kernel
<kris_>
you pose a good point, packaging anything at all from systemd is nothing short of a nightmare
<kris_>
i did package gummiboot-efistub, but it seems to be non functional with modern GCC
<sad_plan>
well yes. I dont see any point of making a simple task more complicated than it already is. hence EFI stub is the best approach imo. now if you need encryption, it would make things somewhat more complex, but thats another story
<kris_>
yeah, encryption is a hard requirement
<kris_>
there's just an obscene amount of dependencies here for what *should* be simple, guess that's the way systemd operates
<sad_plan>
hm, Im not sure you can use efistub with encryption though. ive never attempted it myself, so youd have to look more into that. maybe not full disk encrypted anyhow. cant encrypt /boot atleast
<sad_plan>
yep
<kris_>
correct, hence my "given a world"
<kris_>
i should have been more specific, mb
<sad_plan>
no worries :p
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<kris_>
so how is the audit process for packages being added to community?
<sad_plan>
theres basically is none. unless maintainer has some specific gripe about said package, or how the buildscript is written. ive not really seen this be the case though
<kris_>
ah, in terms of audit i had really just meant checking over packages to make sure they're sane before pulling them into community
<midfavila>
kris_ it's been a while since i've done anything with community/ but the bare minimum is a pass from shellcheck
<midfavila>
i would *hope* someone reviews build scripts
<kris_>
also curious if anyone does their builds in a chroot or otherwise to keep the host free of make depends
<kris_>
or if there's something to autoremove makedeps
<midfavila>
there isnt afaik
<midfavila>
there's at least one script someone wrote to extend kiss to handle pruning unnecessary packages
<midfavila>
makedeps etc
<midfavila>
i've been meaning to start building all of my personal packages in a chroot
<midfavila>
esp once i start work on my own distro
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<midfavila>
with today being the last day at my current job i'll have plenty of time to work on it
<midfavila>
gotta start by patching pm(1) to use zlib for compression instead of libarchive...
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<kris_>
midfavila yeah building in a chroot is meta
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<kris_>
the one thing i'm thinking about though is like, having to rebuild the environment every time i build a package so i'm trying to decide how i want to handle that
<kris_>
of course i don't *need* to do that but id like it to be ephemeral
<kris_>
also, 9 patches deep and i'm still working on building systemds efistub, this shit is agonizing
s11f is now known as sigmund-floyd
<midfavila>
im just going to build a rootfs tarball and then any time i wanna build a package i'll unpack a copy of it
<midfavila>
sans firmware, kernel, et al, kiss is super tiny
<kris_>
valid
<midfavila>
ig if you wanted to rebuild the entire OS from scratch every time you could but i think so long as each produced package is tagged with a rootfs version that can itself be reproduced it's sufficient
<kris_>
honestly for what im doing it might be easier to just patch grub to support the argon2id KDF compared to *attempting* to build just one thing from systemd
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<midfavila>
have you considered trying to use syslinux
<midfavila>
?
<kris_>
doesn't fit my security desires
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<midfavila>
fair enough ig
<kris_>
having a UKI is the best approach when combined with secure boot
<midfavila>
uki?
<midfavila>
i havent bothered keeping up with anything post-2014
<kris_>
unified kernel image, a single file that contains your kernel/initrd/cpu ucode/cmdline
<kris_>
your UEFI can boot this
<midfavila>
oh
<midfavila>
fair
<midfavila>
i dont use uefi
<kris_>
this gives you a *single* file that has to be exposed on your disk unencrypted
<kris_>
you then protect it with secure boot
<midfavila>
so that explains why i wouldnt know :P
<kris_>
fair enough
<midfavila>
if i use uefi its because i'm dropping linux for mezzano
<midfavila>
otherwise i'd rather bios
<kris_>
this is the only thing "from UEFI" i really care about
<midfavila>
fair
<kris_>
the rest of it is a complete fucking nightmare because nobody actually follows the spec
<kris_>
MSI being the biggest offender i've found
<midfavila>
yeah that's basically the reason i've given up on keeping up with tech shit
<midfavila>
nobody cares about specs
<midfavila>
or like, testing or anything
<kris_>
technology just gets infinitely worse yearly
<midfavila>
it's all just "move fast and break things!1!1111!11111!!!11!1111111!!!!"
<midfavila>
and its like
<midfavila>
bro
<kris_>
hence i use void and not something like arch
<midfavila>
i could literally use a 5150 for most of what i do
<midfavila>
i dont need a 5ghz cpu
<midfavila>
or any of this other shit
<kris_>
tbf i love my 265k
<midfavila>
that just represents increasingly marginal improvements on ancient tech
<kris_>
i can build my kiss setup in about 5 minutes
<midfavila>
my xeon machine can do the same
<midfavila>
it's admittedly nice
<kris_>
how many cores you got?
<kris_>
(and what gen?)
<midfavila>
on my workstation? 24c 48t @3.2 with boost to i think 3.6
<midfavila>
haswell-e
<midfavila>
so, fourth
<kris_>
sounds like a pretty sweet build machine honestly despite being kind of old
<midfavila>
my current desktop that i got for three nickels and a strawberry has an 8t i7
<kris_>
right now i'm 20c/20t on intels latest for my desktop/workstation
<midfavila>
and i mean tbh its "old" but
<kris_>
they did away with hyperthreading so
<midfavila>
i dont need to upgrade
<midfavila>
esp because it's on an intel s2600cw2r
<midfavila>
i could upgrade to dual 2699v3 or v4 chips
<kris_>
all that matters is that it does what you're trying to do in an amount of time you're happy with
<kris_>
i resent the idea of buy newer and faster just because
<midfavila>
and like up to a terabyte and a half of ecc or some shit
<midfavila>
plus i have like 96 pcie lanes
<midfavila>
:D
<kris_>
the oldest desktop hardware i have around is probably my old 10700k
<kris_>
8c/16t, right now it's just sitting in a box because i have no idea what i want to do with it
<midfavila>
fair
<midfavila>
tbh i'll probably not get any more x86 stuff
<kris_>
in favor of aarch64 im guessing?
<midfavila>
riscv64 if i can
<kris_>
too bad they all suck rn
<midfavila>
i already have a riscv handheld
<midfavila>
it does basically everything i need
<midfavila>
i ported a basic kiss setup to it a while back
<midfavila>
v gomfy
<kris_>
i've fallen for the modern gaming meme unfortunately so something like that wouldnt work out for me
<midfavila>
aside from load times being meh it's quite good
<midfavila>
oh
<kris_>
i mostly play cs2 rather competitively and dayz
<midfavila>
it's from the people behind bastion
<midfavila>
supergiant
<midfavila>
super great roguelike based on hellenic mythology
<kris_>
alright i actually dont think im going to be able to get systemd-boot-efistub to build
<kris_>
i dont understand how alpine and void are pulling it off
<midfavila>
me when i try to copy hyperbola's xenocara build
<kris_>
they have a xenocara build??
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
they have for years
<kris_>
i've not seen that outside of openbsd
<kris_>
that's kinda wild
<midfavila>
they dont ship xorg
<midfavila>
yeah
<midfavila>
idk how they do it
<midfavila>
no sysd either
<midfavila>
theyre actually trying to fork openbsd's kernel
<kris_>
i'm a wayland only type, have been for going on 4 years now
<kris_>
but that's definitely better than just regular xorg
<midfavila>
if i had my way i would be using MGR
<midfavila>
wayland and X both suck
<midfavila>
>:c
<kris_>
wayland has been completely and entirely unproblematic for me
<kris_>
what issues do you have?
<midfavila>
wayland has been nothing but problems for me
<kris_>
nvidia?
<midfavila>
namely being i would have to replace literally every single program i use
<midfavila>
no
<midfavila>
amd or intel
<midfavila>
or, in one case, matrox
<kris_>
xwayland
<midfavila>
no
<midfavila>
:v
<midfavila>
im not running wayland so i can run x
<kris_>
well there's the issue :p
<midfavila>
im just gonna run x
<kris_>
unfortunately x is incompatible with every display config ive had in the past few years
<kris_>
that being mixed refresh rates and whatnot
<kris_>
x really does not like my current monitor
<midfavila>
i used to use mixed refresh rates across four different monitors all of different resolutions and basically everything possible and had no issues
<midfavila>
so idk
<kris_>
there are shitty workarounds that result in screen tearing
<kris_>
like on gnome i used to force all of my monitors to run at the framerate of the highest refresh rate display in my config
<midfavila>
i had... a 16:9 OLED, a 4:3 CRT, a 16:10 LED in portrait, and a 3:4 LED in portrait
<kris_>
on xfce i'd disable vsync
<midfavila>
i never had screen tearing either
<midfavila>
i ran xcompmgr
<kris_>
right now i just have two monitors, one being a 240hz 1440p qd-oled and the other being a 60hz 1440p ips
<kris_>
qd-oled has notoriously shitty subpixel layouts so thats an issue
<midfavila>
rip
<kris_>
at 4k it wouldnt be noticeable but it is at 1440p
<midfavila>
thats why i used a crt before i had to move and get rid of it
<midfavila>
it just werks
<kris_>
i love my oled
<midfavila>
oleds are expensive tho
<midfavila>
like insanely expensive
<kris_>
i do all of my media consumption on my desktop as well so its nice to not have the awful backlight glow of ips
<kris_>
nah i paid $400 USD for this one
<midfavila>
400 USD is almost half my monthly take home pay
<midfavila>
before i was laid off
<midfavila>
:v
<kris_>
fair enough
<midfavila>
that's like, a month of rent
<midfavila>
ez
<midfavila>
plus groceries
<midfavila>
but ye
<kris_>
me casually being a drain on my family so i can spend ridiculous amounts of money on displays and audio gear
<midfavila>
i cant exactly bitch because i make wildly irresponsible financial decisions at times
<midfavila>
:v
<kris_>
yeah i feel that
<midfavila>
like i bought one of those repro model B keyboards
<kris_>
i've sunk maybe 800 usd into my keyboard so far and i still hate every switch ive purchased
<midfavila>
this one keyboard was 1100CAD
<midfavila>
>.>;
<midfavila>
but i dont intend to ever replace it
<kris_>
do you like it tho
<midfavila>
so, mmnmhmnm
<midfavila>
i havent gotten it yet, waiting on the next batch
<kris_>
if you like it then i think that's valid, it's something you use a lot
<kris_>
oh okay
<midfavila>
but it's a 122 key beamspring
<midfavila>
so
<midfavila>
i cant imagine i'll be unhappy
<kris_>
my issue is that i'm buying prelubed linears because lazy
<midfavila>
considering my 122 key model m makes me jump up and down
<midfavila>
>linears
<midfavila>
dead to me
<kris_>
no switch is going to be decent unless it's handlubed unfortunately
<kris_>
:C
<midfavila>
i bet you use speed silvers
<midfavila>
fcking cs go players smdh
<kris_>
everglide aqua king v3s at the moment
<kris_>
previously gateron oil kings
<kris_>
previously wuque studio pearls
<midfavila>
see i was never like supremely into keyboards
<kris_>
ive still not matched my old board because i had spent the time to handlube a bunch of gateron ink black v2s, probably going to do the same with gateron box inks
<midfavila>
ive used a few different MXes
<midfavila>
kalihs as well
<midfavila>
kalihs are better than MXes at a lower cost and their tactile switches have good typing feel
<kris_>
i cant think of a single good cherry switch
<midfavila>
not anywhere close to beams or even buckling springs but still
<kris_>
i don't want to feel anything at all until my switch bottoms out so
<kris_>
like there had better be literally nothing
<midfavila>
i have kalih brown low profiles on my laptop and even tho theyre not very tactile and very "smooth" i.e. they feel like linear, theyre not bad
<midfavila>
see if it doesnt feel like a typewriter to me i literally cannot use it
<midfavila>
because of how i type
<midfavila>
i rely on the kickback from the spring to bounce my finger to the next key, if that makes sense
<kris_>
if i feel any bit of scratch or feedback until it bottoms out it distracts me enough to immediately stop what i'm doing and think about it
<kris_>
havent been able to get over that, it's such an intrusive feeling
<midfavila>
that's fair
<midfavila>
different switches for different folks
<kris_>
people have taken that to quite an extreme
<kris_>
its hard to buy switches because there are literally thousands of picks
<midfavila>
yeah...
<midfavila>
most of which are almost the exact same
<midfavila>
that's a problem in most of the world these days
<midfavila>
i just want a few choices, with different, easily defined and understood characteristics
<midfavila>
not this fucking
<midfavila>
reddit bait boutique bullshit
<midfavila>
choice for choice's sake is stupid
<midfavila>
those choices have to be meaningful
<kris_>
10k shit switches instead of 100 good ones
<midfavila>
part of why i scree and lose my mind when people go "Um AcTuAlLy ThE bEsT pArT oF lInUx Is ChOiCe"
<kris_>
(that's the only reason i'm using linux and not freebsd)
<midfavila>
honestly i dont even use linux because i want to
<midfavila>
i use linux because it's the least shit OS that works with my hardware
<midfavila>
like i said, if i could, i would be using mezzano
<midfavila>
or, more likely, dreamOS
<midfavila>
written in common lisp and scheme 4, respectively
<kris_>
i'm one of those foss extremists so there are limitedish options for me
<kris_>
there are some distros like arch that i outright will not touch because they ship closed source stuff in the same repo as actual software
<kris_>
closed source software belongs in a sandbox, not to be installed as a regular package
<kris_>
of course i'm excluding drivers here because there's not really another choice
<midfavila>
see
<midfavila>
i like
<midfavila>
go way beyond that
<midfavila>
:v
<midfavila>
im at a point where i wont buy harwdare that doesnt have schematics, if i can
<midfavila>
not to compete or w/e, but yeah
<kris_>
naw i get it
<midfavila>
it's mostly because i'm fucking tired of having to constantly replace shit
<midfavila>
whether physical or digital
<midfavila>
like that's why i still use X
<kris_>
see that's also one reason i tend to run void everywhere
<midfavila>
because i use twm and the standard X11 utilities
<kris_>
every time i use some other distro i get burnt and have to hop to something else
<midfavila>
and i have all my configs set up nice and neat in m4 using xrdb
<kris_>
if i was still dailying alpine my machines would have stopped booting on update
<midfavila>
and i can run a single command under my kiss setup and everything is just
<midfavila>
boom
<midfavila>
ready
<midfavila>
yeah i tried dailying alpine
<midfavila>
it fucking sucks
<kris_>
it really does
<midfavila>
like it has its usecases for sure
<midfavila>
i use alpine as a rescue image for example
<kris_>
does it? because void provides a musl+busybox image
<midfavila>
does void have a riscv64 rootfs that's like 10mb
<kris_>
with less agonizing packaging
<kris_>
oh i doubt they have a riscv64 anything so that may be valid
<midfavila>
ye
<midfavila>
tbf alpine didnt until recently
<kris_>
getting build servers for something like that is kinda annoying because all of the hardware just isnt at that point
<midfavila>
but like if it's targetted at x86* then it's basically useless for me, at this point
<midfavila>
i mean
<midfavila>
the pioneer has 64c
<midfavila>
and only costs like 1500USD for a complete system
<midfavila>
so
<kris_>
..you've captured my interest.
<kris_>
i'm gonna look into that
<kris_>
i still do have one alpine install in a container on one of my vps' specifically for my IRC bouncer because ive been too lazy to migrate it to something else
<kris_>
mostly because i'm undecided on re-deploying ZNC or moving to soju
<kris_>
i do not like ZNC
<midfavila>
i just run irssi under tmux
<midfavila>
werks good enough
<midfavila>
a bouncer would be nice in the future tho
<kris_>
i don't leave my desktop running so
<midfavila>
neither do i
<kris_>
i mean i have a local server that i do leave running 24/7 but still
<midfavila>
i dump most of my stuff onto sdf
<midfavila>
in uhhhhhh texas i think
<kris_>
rather new to irc in general so i'm still working this shit out honestly
<midfavila>
can even play ur waifu collection sims wow
<kris_>
speaking of i really need to play miside
<midfavila>
hoyoslop
<kris_>
it looks so good
<midfavila>
miside?
<kris_>
yeah
<kris_>
psychological horror type weeb stuff
<kris_>
i am a huge fan of psych horror and rarely do i see actually good games in that category
<kris_>
(or movies or tv shows)
<midfavila>
oh huh
<midfavila>
looks good and surprisingly reasonable going off the steam page
<midfavila>
might give it a shot when i get home
<kris_>
silent hill 2 remake also seems really really good but im not paying $70 for some shit that's gonna run terribly because the devs have zero idea what they're doing
<midfavila>
honestly i wont pay for big name games period
<kris_>
smoking that repack
<midfavila>
that or i just wont bother lol
<midfavila>
mostly that
<midfavila>
because big name games, yeah, run like shit
<midfavila>
esp on older machines
<kris_>
the issue with sh2 is that they don't stream things in, they render the entire game all at once
<kris_>
despite the fog preventing you from seeing more than like 5 meters infront of you
<midfavila>
a PC from 2016 should be able to run a modern title at like 720p medium graphics @ 60fps
<midfavila>
but no
<kris_>
there's a patch that doesnt change the game whatsoever visually but nets like +35% FPS
<kris_>
why havent they fixed it? no clue
<midfavila>
im just blaming capitalism for it at this point
<midfavila>
probably got swept up by private equity
<kris_>
well yeah people like me still want to buy it
<midfavila>
made to grind like 120 hours a week
<midfavila>
scrap anything that isnt strictly essential for first-week profits
<midfavila>
dump it out and then fuck off to the next thing
<kris_>
hard to blame them when we're under a system that incentivizes dogshit behavior
<midfavila>
LMFAO
<kris_>
like the companies suck for doing this yes
<midfavila>
they perpetuate it
<midfavila>
i absolutely can and do blame them
<midfavila>
private equity *are the problem*
<kris_>
at the end of the day bad behavior is encouraged
<midfavila>
like fucking blackrock and shit
<midfavila>
yes because they use their power to keep the system going
<kris_>
nothing we can do
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<kris_>
until we get someone who can effectively get people pissed off enough to do something as a whole
<midfavila>
there's plenty that can be done that can't be talked about in public
<midfavila>
:v
<kris_>
great speakers
<midfavila>
luigi proved that
<kris_>
LOL i feel you
<kris_>
i havent met a soul that is upset with luigi
<midfavila>
jfc random people on the street here are talking about how we need a canadian luigi or five hundred
<kris_>
the entire issue is that (before luigi) there was no real danger to being a terrible person
<midfavila>
the guy that drove the city bus i take to work this morning casually remarked about needing a violent revolution if things dont change soon
<midfavila>
just like, openly
<midfavila>
:v
<kris_>
yeah people are getting more blunt about it
<midfavila>
i mean the social contract everyone in The West:tm: has been sold has long since failed. it's just the last scraps getting burned up at this point
<midfavila>
youve got people working full time who cant even afford food let alone rent, in most of the country
<midfavila>
in uhhhhh hamilton in ontario the mayor had a report from our public broadcaster, cbc, brought to her attention on a landlord who was renting out over 20 little tiny subdivided cage homes in his basement
<midfavila>
at 325 a month
<midfavila>
mostly to foreign workers and students
<midfavila>
and the mayor basically shrugged and said "many such cases"
<midfavila>
"nothing we can do about it"
<midfavila>
like mfer that's why we pay you
* midfavila
seethes
<midfavila>
but now i'm super off topic
<kris_>
wait, cage homes??
<midfavila>
again
<midfavila>
yes
<kris_>
like
<kris_>
cages
<midfavila>
not literal cages, yet
<midfavila>
not like some places in asia or w/e
<midfavila>
but one step away
<midfavila>
he uh
<midfavila>
bought those freestanding office dividers right
<midfavila>
and used them to cut up his basement into a bunch of tiny spaces only large enough for a single-size mattress
<midfavila>
and was renting out those beds
<kris_>
nah, i can't believe that isn't illegal
<midfavila>
it is
<midfavila>
extremely
<midfavila>
that's just how bad things are here in terms of real estate prices
<midfavila>
the bubble didn't pop here, in 2008
<kris_>
crazy how some european countries are just funding homes for the homeless and then they contribute back to the economy once they have living conditions and it's a long term net positive
<kris_>
almost like being humane works
<midfavila>
yeah but you dont get it they didnt work to *deserve* that housing so we can't do that because uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh if we don't threaten people with freezing to death in -60C they won't work
<midfavila>
or something
* midfavila
sighs
<kris_>
better to go to prison atp
<midfavila>
yeah that's what's happening here
<midfavila>
people will commit some petty crime, then make a show of "resisting arrest" to guarantee a sentencec
<midfavila>
sentence*
<midfavila>
of course, shithead tory scum still manages to find a way to blame the people doing that
<midfavila>
"if they would just stop spending all their welfare on crack and get a job then maybe they wouldnt be homeless!!!"
<midfavila>
like mfer
<midfavila>
jesus christ it is legitimately -60C in the region i live in for a good chunk of the year
<midfavila>
that isnt an exaggeration
<midfavila>
you cant not give people a place to live when it's winter for 4-5 months of the year and the average temp in winter is like -30
<midfavila>
but even beyond that like
<midfavila>
nobody ever seems to realise that if we don't keep money circulating the economy crashes
<midfavila>
so even in the case of quote unquote "unearned" benefits payments, theyre contributing to the economy
<midfavila>
bc they spend that money on food and shit which creates jobs
<midfavila>
and grows the economy
<midfavila>
but no, it all comes down to some bullshit about deservedness, which inevitably boils down to "well because the bibbel says so!!!" bc theyre brainwashed by fucking protestantism and prosperity gospel bullshit
<midfavila>
it's amazing how many people here will use christianity to justify cruelty when that jesus guy explicitly said to like
<midfavila>
feed the hungry and house the homeless and treat the ill and shit
<midfavila>
>:|
<midfavila>
something something camels and needles
<kris_>
yeah i'm from the bible belt areas of the rural US so i get that
<kris_>
i'm very much not religious but in defense of actual christians, these people are not
<midfavila>
i'm not either, but yeah, it's insane
<midfavila>
i've met so many "christians" who can't quote a single passage
<midfavila>
or tell me what any of the saints stand for or w/e
<midfavila>
'cus they only see religion as like, a vibe
<kris_>
in that case it's more of a label they apply to themselves because they think it prevents them from receiving eternal punishment or whatever
<kris_>
simply as a label
<midfavila>
no it's mostly because they were "raised" that way. they just don't take it seriously
<midfavila>
or... something
<kris_>
there are a lot of different mindsets
<kris_>
i dunno
<kris_>
most i grew up with were the incredibly racist and *phobic types who were generally just bad people
<midfavila>
yeah that's most of the people in saskatchewan that i've run into
<midfavila>
it's wild coming from new brunswick which is like
<midfavila>
insanely laid back and chill
<kris_>
ive seen takes like "if you aren't religious, what prevents you from doing awful things?"
<midfavila>
that's the least awful thing i would have heard here
<kris_>
it's kind of scary that the only thing stopping these people from being truly evil is an external threat
<midfavila>
lmao
<kris_>
apparently no actual internal sense of morals
<kris_>
only threat of punishment
<midfavila>
i just respond with "i'm lazy and conflict is hard"
<midfavila>
i would rather just not
<kris_>
"i clearly don't share the same desires as you" is my go to
<midfavila>
like i would rather lay in bed and just relax lel
<kris_>
but i'm prone to starting shit
<kris_>
so
<midfavila>
you should read the logs in #kisslinux
<midfavila>
:P
<midfavila>
but yeah at this point i just write those people off.
<kris_>
nah, i dont want drama if i can rationally avoid it
<midfavila>
i can't take them seriously
<kris_>
speaking of what even are the rules in this channel
<kris_>
i'm unclear on that
<midfavila>
uhhhh
<midfavila>
i dont think we have a shitload
<midfavila>
basically just don't be a dick ig
<kris_>
fair
<midfavila>
obvs if people are trying to talk about tech stuff best to give that precedence
<midfavila>
given its #kisslinux and not an offtopic which we dont have bc its usually slow
<midfavila>
i think the community site has an actual list
<kris_>
just very different vibes from other places ive been on irc
<kris_>
in a good way
<midfavila>
yeah there are some channels that suck
<midfavila>
most honestly
<midfavila>
kiss is comfy
<kris_>
wow this patch is from 2001
<kris_>
still getting use to attempt to build without glibc lmfao
<midfavila>
yeah theres lots of stuff that pops up like that around places
<midfavila>
i still routinely use ancient software
<midfavila>
w/e works
<kris_>
i still need to sort out why packages like busybox and xz won't build with PIE
<midfavila>
couldnt tell you
<kris_>
but before that, i have to be able to boot the system the way i want to
<kris_>
i'm having fun though, there's no fun unless you have to put some effort in
<kris_>
busybox not super important, i had planned on replacing with gnu anyway- as for xz, that does matter
<midfavila>
unfortunately
<midfavila>
:c
<midfavila>
if i can get away with it i want to only have ncompress on my machines and maybe gzip
<midfavila>
ngl tho looking at miside's trailer it makes me wonder
<midfavila>
why don't characters in these sorts of stories ever just like
<midfavila>
punch their aggressors in the gabba
<midfavila>
:v
<midfavila>
its not like they have a gun. short of supernatural powers you could totally take them
<kris_>
you've just answered your question
<kris_>
im not gonna spoil anything really, should try it out
<kris_>
or watch some gameplay, it's interesting
<midfavila>
meh fair
<midfavila>
is it mandatory to have a VR headset to play?
<midfavila>
i imagine it diminishes the experience if you dont
<kris_>
no its fine without
<midfavila>
kk that's good
<kris_>
diminishes maybe but i think its fine
<midfavila>
at some point i would still like to get a headset
<kris_>
very heavy emphasis on maybe
<midfavila>
i used to go to an internet cafe with a setup to play this gladiator sim game
<midfavila>
super fun and honestly a shockingly good workout
<kris_>
ive never tried VRV
<midfavila>
vrv?
<kris_>
VR, sorry
<kris_>
these switches actuate way too early, i keep accidentally pressing keys when i dont mean to lol
<kris_>
hours of troubleshooting due to that infact
<midfavila>
aah
<midfavila>
that's what i thought, just wasnt sure
<midfavila>
that's why i use springs
<midfavila>
modern mechanicals are way too trigger happy
<kris_>
some are, some aren't, the standard is still 4mm of travel total with actuation at 4mm
<riteo>
bruh I bought a cheap mecha and it started chattering HARD after a year or two
<kris_>
weight of spring obv varies heavily by switch
<midfavila>
springs i can do ~100-120wpm with >=99% accuracy, most "mechanical" keebs i drop to like 80
<kris_>
my current build usually nets me 160-170
<midfavila>
note when i say springs i mean ibm buckling springs
<kris_>
faster than my old
<midfavila>
that's pretty impressive
<riteo>
holy crap 160-170 is FAST
<midfavila>
you should enter a competition or something
<kris_>
ive been practicing for years trying to hit 200
<kris_>
i feel limited by qwerty and the 4mm of travel on MX style mechanical switches
<midfavila>
305 is apparently the world record atm
<midfavila>
kris_ check out workman
<kris_>
my hands cramp up hardcore when i get to those speeds
<riteo>
I expected it to come from a competition or smth
<midfavila>
riteo thats the standard you need to meet now
<midfavila>
if you cant type 305wpm with 100% accuracy for eight hours straight youll never get a job as a cooder
<riteo>
fuck
<midfavila>
i mean nobody is getting a job as a cooder for a while anyway but still
<riteo>
time to get to prostitution
<midfavila>
that's another requirement
<riteo>
fuck
<midfavila>
the typing not the prostitution
<riteo>
oh all right
<riteo>
lmao
<midfavila>
im sure thatll be counted as experience tho
<kris_>
what the actual fuck
<kris_>
imagine this dude has roommates
<kris_>
lmfao
<riteo>
although jokes aside like, coding is not that great as a job at corpos is it
<riteo>
there are like other roles that are tech related
<midfavila>
not any more lmao
<riteo>
I think
<midfavila>
for both
<midfavila>
i just got laid off as are most tech types in my city
<riteo>
what do corpos do now
<riteo>
like did everybody stop coding
<midfavila>
hire cheaper labour overseas
<midfavila>
and exploit them even harder
<kakker>
Iris keybord with Colemak-DH. How all humans should type.
<riteo>
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<riteo>
so what they did before chatgpt
<kris_>
ive been seeing jobs that pay unbelievably well that are like, "prompt engineering"
<midfavila>
yeah because its a grift
<kris_>
your job being to get gpt to spit out the right thing
<midfavila>
literally all the modern economy is is a grift
<riteo>
I mean gpt is just cheap ass labor auomated
<midfavila>
at this point i refuse to participate
<midfavila>
no
<midfavila>
it isnt
<midfavila>
LLMs are just overgrown markov chains
<kris_>
idk IT is fucked in general
<midfavila>
they cant actually reason
<riteo>
ye but like what I mean
<kris_>
i'm about to career hop personally
<kris_>
if shit doesnt turn up very soon
<midfavila>
the problem is that people cant get that
<riteo>
it's not like cheap ass labor is that think-intensive
<riteo>
it's mostly labor afaict
<midfavila>
kris_ good fucking luck lmfao
<midfavila>
riteo its all labour
<riteo>
like, do this exact thing no you can't do it differently
<midfavila>
labour is the source of value
<midfavila>
reduce the cost of labour but sell for the same price and margins go up
<riteo>
oh I mean as in, mechanical labour
<kris_>
hey i mean, people are still getting jobs with drafting / civil engineering
<midfavila>
companies will always chase that goal
<kris_>
like hella jobs actually
<midfavila>
even if it means getting things that are worse
<midfavila>
kris_ if you can afford to go to school for that you're lucky
<midfavila>
riteo same thing
<riteo>
I doubt that the code quality of super-cheap overseas labor was good
<midfavila>
riteo it doesnt matter
<midfavila>
quality is irrelevant
<midfavila>
all that matters is that it sells
<riteo>
ye that's why they're using gpt now
<kris_>
my uni was paid for by the gubberment, i just kinda got fucked with what i decided to take
<midfavila>
precisely
<kris_>
can probably do it again
<midfavila>
lucky :x
<riteo>
I think we're actually on quite similar wavelenghts
<midfavila>
do you have pubic uni or similar?
<midfavila>
riteo yes
<kris_>
in the US if your income is below like a certain amount your uni is free
<kris_>
you owe nothing back
<riteo>
I just suck at language, I barely read a socialism "quickstart"
<midfavila>
thats wild kris_ i've never heard that
<midfavila>
here, even if youre dirt poor, the government wont do shit
<midfavila>
esp with the tariffs coming in tomorrow i'm just giving up for a while
<kris_>
dirt poor in the US == food paid for, housing POTENTIALLY because the waiting list for government housing is insane
<kris_>
uni paid for
<kris_>
healthcare paid for
<midfavila>
well
<midfavila>
until that EO the other day
<midfavila>
apparently funding for all that is cut off
<kris_>
there's a middleground where people get fucked
<midfavila>
to combat "wokeism"
<kris_>
oh did they cut funding for that?
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<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
all fed funding is on temporary suspension
<midfavila>
afaik
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<midfavila>
including for SNAP, food stamps, etc
<riteo>
oh I have a question about this whole US thing
<midfavila>
and grants for research and so on
<kris_>
great so a bunch of people are gonna just go hungry here
<riteo>
how can trump even do all that stuff
<kris_>
crazy that you're more in tune with this than me
<midfavila>
riteo he cant
<riteo>
isn't it like dictactorship
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
it is
<midfavila>
its literally illegal
<midfavila>
unconstitutional
<riteo>
do they seriously have no mechanism against dictatorship
<kris_>
part of the issue is that his party now controls the majority of the government
<midfavila>
the problem is that the SCOTUS was stacked by the republicans
<kris_>
^
<midfavila>
and the senate, house, and presidential cabinet are all republican majorities
<riteo>
what does SC stand for
<midfavila>
supreme court
<riteo>
shit
<kris_>
our political system quite literally fell flat a little bit ago
<midfavila>
they rule on matters relating to the constitution
<riteo>
isn't this like corruption
<midfavila>
yes
<kris_>
bingo
<riteo>
this sounds like fucking fascism
<midfavila>
it is
<kris_>
bingo
<midfavila>
:V
<riteo>
like, literal mussolini shit
<riteo>
wtf
<kris_>
bingo
<midfavila>
he also illegally fired all of their auditors general the other day
<midfavila>
also illegally
<kris_>
i'm trying to fuck off as soon as possible to another country
<kris_>
but of course that generally requires money to do
<midfavila>
and is actively persecuting people in the media who criticise his cabinet
<midfavila>
as well as other people with high profiles
<riteo>
isn't this a fucking coup
<midfavila>
no
<midfavila>
not at all
<midfavila>
its the result of a democratic election
<midfavila>
:^)
<riteo>
sdflksajòhfeasoftghsnoljknadojgfshgsf
<midfavila>
and the failure of the left to provide a viable alternative to the working class
<midfavila>
fascism is a temporary stage of capitalism used by the ruling class to suppress class consciousness among the working class
<kris_>
things are going to get very bad here very quickly
<midfavila>
wait until tomorrow kris_
<riteo>
holy shit how did we get here :sob:
<kris_>
is there something going on tomorrow?
<midfavila>
riteo memes
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<midfavila>
kris_ 25% flat tariffs on canada
<midfavila>
indefinitely
<kris_>
LOL
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<midfavila>
and climbing
<riteo>
only canada?
<midfavila>
and mexico
<midfavila>
and our premiers (governors sort of) and prime minister are all smacking back
<midfavila>
except danielle smith who's a fucking traitor
<midfavila>
but yeah canada is ready to just stop exports
<riteo>
I'm wondering why is nobody fucking reacting back
<midfavila>
in the event of tariffs
<midfavila>
riteo they are
<midfavila>
colombia just smacked the fuck out of america
<riteo>
well thinking about it I'm quite sure giorgia meloni is ok with trump
<riteo>
so maybe it's just me who does not notice the world panic
<midfavila>
denmark's euro MP told trump to, quote, "fuck off"
<midfavila>
on the podium
<midfavila>
during session
<midfavila>
:v
<riteo>
HOLY BASED
<midfavila>
mexico is telling trump to shove it
<midfavila>
the USA has been taking nonstop Ls over the past two weeks
<riteo>
oh also did you know that the italian leader is being investigated
<kris_>
honestly im not really sure what my plans are
<midfavila>
unsurprising riteo
<midfavila>
kris_ get a gun
<kris_>
maybe eventually things will get bad enough that ill be accepted as a refugee somewhere
<kris_>
oh trust me i have many
<kris_>
that's not a worry
<midfavila>
also california is seceding
<midfavila>
lol
<riteo>
she took a very important foreign criminal of some kind and casually sent them back
<kris_>
what?
<midfavila>
yep
<kris_>
they can't be lmfao i havent heard anything about that
<riteo>
instead of bringing them to fucking international court
<midfavila>
they literally are
<midfavila>
or, trying to
<midfavila>
one secco
<midfavila>
i'll find the cali government release
<midfavila>
someone approached them with a petition to strive for independence and it was passed
<riteo>
WTF
<riteo>
CALIFORNIA BASED?
<kris_>
wow that's fucking insane
<midfavila>
if the guy who started it gets 5% of the electorate to sign, it ends up on a ballot in 2028
<kris_>
yeah i found some news about that
<riteo>
uh 2028 is quite far away
<midfavila>
if the ballot gets 55% yea in the plebiscite plus one, then all americana has to be stripped from state property
<kris_>
i'm just curious how self sustaining california will actually be
<riteo>
will the US still have ballots? :P
<midfavila>
riteo in legislative terms that's lightning fast
<midfavila>
riteo the US wont, states might
<midfavila>
kris_ cali is america's paypig
<midfavila>
lol
<midfavila>
also they have silicon valley and shit
<midfavila>
so
<riteo>
based california
<midfavila>
and hollywood i think?
<midfavila>
and like
<riteo>
did trump forget he's living in 20 fucking 25
<midfavila>
etc
<riteo>
this isn't the 1920
<kris_>
huh, well i'm glad you told me about that
<midfavila>
riteo he does have a family history of alzheimers
<midfavila>
so
<midfavila>
yknow
<riteo>
lmao
<kris_>
given under extreme circumstances i might be able to just go to california
<kris_>
at the moment there's free travel there of course
<midfavila>
honestly i tell you what
<midfavila>
quebec is talking about leaving canada
<midfavila>
if they do, im going with them
<kris_>
??
<riteo>
based quebec
<midfavila>
they do this all the time
<midfavila>
quebec was forced into confederation by the english
<riteo>
everybody casually saying "fuck you" to shitty government is honestly peak
<midfavila>
and they get systematically screwed by the rest of canada
<midfavila>
riteo it isnt casual
<riteo>
gives me hope
<midfavila>
casual was 2016
<midfavila>
this is like
<midfavila>
their last chance
<midfavila>
the circus is out of town, the peasants can't afford bread, and there's no cake left in the palace
<riteo>
the fact that they even have it is fucking great though
<midfavila>
but the politicians won't go against their own interests
<midfavila>
which are aligned with capitalists
<midfavila>
what we're seeing is a desperate attempt by american capital to maintain its hegemony on the world stage
<midfavila>
and a turning-inwards of imperialism
<riteo>
I mean they can try independence exactly because now we have solid international laws
<midfavila>
>implying america cares about international law
<riteo>
europe does :P
<riteo>
and it's not small
<midfavila>
and europe doesnt spend 2 trillion us dollars a year on military hardware
<midfavila>
or have 800+ foreign military bases
<midfavila>
or have a huge portion of the world's nukes
<riteo>
nukes are a joke
<midfavila>
and they arent insane enough to use them
<riteo>
they'd tank the economy
<midfavila>
riteo, you dont get it
<midfavila>
capitalists would rather kill everyone than give up their power
<riteo>
bruh
<midfavila>
thats literally how our entire economy works
<riteo>
even if it would mess up their precious economy?
<midfavila>
if the alternative is giving up their power, yes
<riteo>
:skull:
<midfavila>
they can always screw with the economy to make it work again later
<midfavila>
esp once they seize the state fully
<riteo>
I don't think I'll ever truly understand capitalism
<midfavila>
by design
<riteo>
this is unironically disturbing
<midfavila>
the worst part is that the system is covered in so many layers of abstraction that you will literally have people who can barely survive due to the economy fucking them so hard go out and defend capitalism
<midfavila>
"uh well actually we dont have CAPITALISM, we have CRONYISM"
<riteo>
that's the genius part of capitalism
<midfavila>
without even realising that the inherent logic of capitalism will always result in this happening
<midfavila>
you cant just keep turning back the clock
<riteo>
it's like those old class-based systems but with so much fucking indirection that people can't tell at a glance
<riteo>
like, you could say it's obfuscated
<midfavila>
100%
<midfavila>
that's literally what it is
<midfavila>
between that and fomenting bullshit culture war using tories...
<riteo>
tories?
<midfavila>
s/war/wars/
<midfavila>
conservatives
<riteo>
I see
<midfavila>
and frankly, "apolitical moderates", as well
<riteo>
well mussolini and hitler did similar things too
<riteo>
like, trump did not invent this ffs
<midfavila>
its not even a "if you dont stand against them you are them" thing
<midfavila>
its literally a historic fact that mussolini and hitler were democratically elected due to broad support among the working class bc especially those who were already well off who had seen their living standards decline, i.e the middle class, fell head over heels for him
<riteo>
I remember when people made memes on trump moving like fucking mussolini in his speeches
<midfavila>
oh yeah
<midfavila>
people are doing the same with musk
<midfavila>
putting his totally ambiguous gesture next to modern fascists
<midfavila>
and classic fascists
<midfavila>
also
<midfavila>
republicans are starting to blindly copy it
<midfavila>
"for the memes"
<midfavila>
which is great
<riteo>
I mean mussolini also basically did a coup, the king shit his pants and gave him power and then corrupted the rest of the government
<midfavila>
yeah the difference is that in america the executive branch is also led by the head of state
<midfavila>
so like
<midfavila>
you have the legislative branch
<midfavila>
i.e. the congress, comprised of two chambers, the senate and house
<midfavila>
you have the judicial branch, the SCOTUS and their inferior courts
<midfavila>
and the executive branch, the president's cabinet
<midfavila>
the problem
<midfavila>
is that they dont separate the power of head of state
<midfavila>
theres no fourth branch
<midfavila>
the president is both chief executive and head of state
<midfavila>
so he has the duties and abilities of both a prime minister and king
<midfavila>
well
<midfavila>
kind
<midfavila>
of
<midfavila>
sort of
<midfavila>
not really
<midfavila>
it's more complicated than that
<midfavila>
but in terms of laws, the president is both the guy who makes the laws happen and the guy who signs shit into laws
<midfavila>
in theory the congress can overrule the president's veto via a second pass through the house and senate, but in reality he's stacked the congress
<riteo>
where did this executive order shit come from then
<riteo>
it looks like he can take them from his ass and do whatever he wants
<midfavila>
EOs are a tool presidents have to enact swift emergency responses, effectively
<midfavila>
theyre not intended to be used this way
<midfavila>
see
<midfavila>
in theory
<midfavila>
in
<midfavila>
THEORY
<midfavila>
this is why the SCOTUS exists
<midfavila>
and why congress can overrule EOs
<midfavila>
the SCOTUS can overturn laws and shoot down EOs if theyre unconstitutional
<midfavila>
but he stacked the scotus with partisan judges
<midfavila>
and congress can afaik also overrule EOs with the same process as overruling vetoes
<midfavila>
but he ALSO controls both houses of congress
<riteo>
but by putting the followers of its fucking cult in the only place they should not be everything is fucked
<midfavila>
yeup
<kakker>
Isn't "he's stacked the congress" a bit bullshit though. People stacked it with voting.
<midfavila>
well, yes, but that ignores that not all republicans are MAGA
<midfavila>
it's not hard to swing elections using money
<midfavila>
you could absolutely just redirect funds from certain candidates in a given jurisdiction to another candidate more amenable to your interests
<riteo>
I still can't, like, digest this whole Trump thing
<riteo>
and I'm not even american
<midfavila>
how do you think it feels for people in canada lmfao
<riteo>
I can't even imagine
<midfavila>
we've all been running around with our heads cut off for the past two weeks
<riteo>
my biggest fear is that this crap is going to spread HARD
<midfavila>
esp because we're hot off the heels of provincial and municipal elections and heading into federal ones
<midfavila>
also
<midfavila>
trudeau resigned
<midfavila>
and then prorogued parliament
<riteo>
so he basically didn't
<midfavila>
and the leader of the opposition is saying he's going to overturn the constitution
<midfavila>
if he wins
<riteo>
what why
<midfavila>
and also we're on the verge of economic implosion
<riteo>
:skull:
<midfavila>
riteo to inflict cruel and unusual punishments
<midfavila>
thats not my rhetoric
<midfavila>
he's doing some tough on crime shit
<riteo>
asldkjfasdlkjsdlkfjdlkfasdf
<midfavila>
one of his direct quotes is that he doesn't want to see violent offenders like murders let out of their cells unless they're locked in a box inside of another box
<midfavila>
s/murder/murderer/
<riteo>
what's the point ffs
<riteo>
that's not how it works
<midfavila>
which, say what you will about murderers, but like
<riteo>
where the fuck did centuries of social studies go
<midfavila>
riteo down the drain as intended
<midfavila>
the public school system originated as backlash against child labour in factories and received huge funding from capitalists and still does to this day who use it to push their propoganda
<midfavila>
never forget that
<midfavila>
under capitalism the state serves the interests of the ruling class
<midfavila>
like in parts of texas for example their communities cant raise enough property tax to fund schools (because aside from federal and state grants which are variable and not necessarily reliable) they only fund schools using property taxes afaik
<kris_>
curious why nothing populates under /sys/firmware/efi/efivars/
<midfavila>
meaning they have to find money from the private sector to make up the slack sometimes
<riteo>
I swear I can't look at US' political situation without feeling a constant feel of dread like WTF
<riteo>
kris_: gotta mount it
<midfavila>
that means OIL COMPANIES ARE FUNDING SCIENCE CLASSES
<midfavila>
fucking
<kris_>
duh, i'm half asleep
<midfavila>
OIL COMPANIES
<riteo>
look at `kiss help efibootmgr`
<kris_>
i forgot about that
<kris_>
yeah, thank you
<riteo>
nw
<riteo>
yw
<riteo>
midfavila: how is everything so fucked up in america
<riteo>
when did everything go so wrong
<midfavila>
i would argue reagan pushed things this way
<midfavila>
but the united states has always been a fundamentally broken nation as a product of colonialism
<midfavila>
canada has the same problem
<riteo>
mid you still planning to go to eu
<midfavila>
the american and canadian states must be dismantled and reformed anew in a way that treats all inhabitants of our regions with full respect. until such time their authority and legitimacy are highly questionable
<midfavila>
riteo if i can ever afford it lol
<midfavila>
i still have a shitload of debt and now the economy is going to explode
<midfavila>
so we'll see what happens
<riteo>
like I always keep saying that stuff is not that green here either but now I'm starting to feel that stuff is getting real bad there
<midfavila>
it very much is
<midfavila>
i wasnt joking about joining the EU
<midfavila>
jesus christ the UK can have our sovereignty back. at this point canada just needs stability.
<midfavila>
we need more options other than just america
<riteo>
godspeed mid
<riteo>
I'm still quite out of words. Hopefully something will happen. It's making me inform a lot more about the crap going on there and maybe I'll finally find the will to educate about socialism and crap properly for once
<riteo>
I'm sure a lot of other people are doing the same right now
<riteo>
Hope never dies
<midfavila>
not here
<midfavila>
"socialism" is a dirty word in canada and america
<midfavila>
esp america
<riteo>
maybe they can do the capitalist approach of indirection
<midfavila>
that doesnt really work
<midfavila>
at least based on previous approaches, you need to explicitly raise the consciousness of the working class at large to such a degree that they can fully see the system for what it is
<midfavila>
and then a socialist or communist party needs to direct their energy into a single event sufficient to overthrow the existing state
<midfavila>
any other approach thus far *to my knowledge* has failed almost immediately
<midfavila>
allende in chile was successful as a reformist until two weeks into his presidency when the CIA invaded chile and instated pinochet
<midfavila>
unfortunately, many such cases
<midfavila>
something something those in power will never willingly surrender it something something
<midfavila>
speaking of power, my boss has power over me and he wants me to do payroll today, so i might be slow for a bit
<riteo>
no worries mid
<midfavila>
i havent actually read any books bcus reading's 4 nerds and im a cool kid but my friends irl who are more educated than i am keep telling me to read lenin's "what is to be done"
<midfavila>
it talks literally about this exact problem
<riteo>
I'm soon going to get a fancy discount by the state for books
<riteo>
so I'm gonna hoard them hard
<riteo>
also, it only works on goddamn amazon
<midfavila>
lmfao
<riteo>
but I'm gonna add that book and, ironically, buy it from amazon for "free"
<midfavila>
he thinks he needs to buy commie books
<riteo>
along a shitton of cory doctorow books and shit like that
<midfavila>
just go on uhhhh
<midfavila>
one sec
<riteo>
pluralistic has been my source of "education" for a while
<kris_>
i don't have much of an appetite generally so its kinda just how i am
<kris_>
i'm terrified to open that link
<riteo>
kris_: be careful
<riteo>
regarding food not the link
<riteo>
eat
<riteo>
and with that out of the way, pizza time
<kris_>
eating snd sleeping both require substances
<riteo>
it'sa time, bye bye amici
<kris_>
lmao have fun
<riteo>
see you next-a time
<riteo>
wahoooo
<kris_>
yeah i give up with this systemd-efistub nonsense, if something is this much of a pain it's only going to get worse over time
<ilt>
kris_: you still can't boot vm with qemu, right? where are you stuck exactly?
<kris_>
nah, i'm fine, just trying to do a build of systemd that only includes their efistub for a UKI
<kris_>
specifically the "pain" thing i was talking about was systemd, not anything else
<ilt>
you can try to get efistub from gummiboot. it should be still possible to build
<sewn>
efibootmgr :)
<kris_>
ilt as far as i'm aware nobody has managed to get a functional build of that in a while, i did write a build script for that and was unable to get it working
<kris_>
alpine ended up pulling the package from older repositories for the most recent stable release, void dropped the package a little bit ago
<ilt>
btw why do you need uki really? you can include cmdline and initramfs(if needed) into the kernel, no uki needed
<ilt>
but afaik it could be done only at kernel build time, i may be wrong though
<kris_>
ilt that's the second option yes, an efistub/uki isn't strictly necessary here because i have nothing down the chain to validate
<kris_>
what i'm after is a single file signed with secure boot to cover everything, and to handle FDE
<kris_>
s/with/for
<ilt>
then build your own kernel and include everything you need into it. that's what I'd do personally
<ilt>
i assume you want single signed file because you are afraid of evil maid attack, right?
<kris_>
yeah, that's the primary "concern"
<kris_>
of course it's hardly necessary, i just like security
<kris_>
it might be easier to do a build of the grub fork that has argon2id support and use that for a more traditional FDE setup instead assuming there's some unforseen issue with building a kernel around this
<ilt>
i have some experience with fde, i can tell you about an alternative approach to countering evil maid
<ilt>
you can simply place your /boot on usb stick and take it with you every time you leave your pc
<kris_>
lol yeah i've considered doing that, just kind of a pain
<midfavila>
security is by definition a pain
<midfavila>
also am back
<ilt>
i was doing that for quite a while, it was ok for me
<kris_>
that specifically is more of a pain compared to just decrypting from a setup where you're only trusting firmware
<kris_>
simplest solution though
<midfavila>
well yeah but then you gotta figure out how you wanna do that which seems to be a struggle
<midfavila>
so it's really a matter of tradeoffs as always
<kris_>
unfortunately, i'm being filtered by systemds musl incompatibility
<midfavila>
i would help but ive never done fde
<ilt>
well i'd rather not trust firmware unless it's FLOSS
<midfavila>
i want to fiddle with luks etc
<kris_>
it's less about the setup more about building the efistub needed to create a functional UKI
<kris_>
i could just pull from another distro but that's kinda cheap