<l0wigh>
i'm done for tonight. got my wm running, st and dmenu compiled. started an installation of some other stuff (yes webkit2gtk is part of this big installation). I hope everything is done when I wake up
<l0wigh>
goodnight legends !
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<midfavila>
a graphical browser hissssss
<midfavila>
tar the heretic
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<xdream8>
i just tried dbin and installed packages does not work correctly most of the time. some apps give library errors(symbol not found etc.), some apps does not run at all(packages based on appimages). some apps does not detect fonts at all, fonts does not render or app just does not launch at all
<xdream8>
i tried firefox, librewolf, wezterm, pcmanfm f
<xdream8>
firefox and librewolf does not launch at all and gives library errors
<xdream8>
wezterm opens but fonts are not rendered correctly and looks really bad
<xdream8>
pcmanfm does not launch and gives font and icon errors
<xdream8>
i expected the result with firefox and librewolf but i though other packages would work correctly
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<riteo>
well yeah I'm not surprised, firefox and similar dynamically load stuff through dlopen
<riteo>
that requires patching
<riteo>
you can't just build something with static libs and then it blindly works
<riteo>
a markdown-like language that tries to fix things by throwing all legacy compatibility stuff aside
<riteo>
the folk behind seems to know their stuff
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<l0wigh>
Hey everyone !
<l0wigh>
I just find out that sad_plan was right. -O3 is actually really slower than -O2 or -Os. My systems feels really slow in comparaison to my previous build... I'll need to rebuild some crucial part of if asap x)
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<sad_plan>
xdream: i was kinda supprised with the claim of things being static, and seeing firefox among them. I was hard pressed to belive that some kid just compiled firefox statically linked. tldr, not suprised :p
<sad_plan>
L0Wigh: I wasnt kidding when I told you -O3 was worse :p
<l0wigh>
Picom animations feels laggy as hell now.... I really should rebuild stuff. probably will start with base system and then go for xorg
<l0wigh>
if it's still not fluid as before, I'll just full rebuild everything and waits for 3 days
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<l0wigh>
I also hope that -mtune=native isn't harmful since it's not the default settings when building kiss
<l0wigh>
ok so I should be fine then. currently recompiling base system. after a reboot i'll see if there is any differences
<sad_plan>
base wont do anything about sluggish x session
<l0wigh>
only xorg recompile right ?
<l0wigh>
well at least, gcc recompilation might help with faster build time after
<sad_plan>
for it to take effect, the affected packages needs to be rebuilt. so yes, x related things.
<sad_plan>
but all packages would be better overall obivously :p which is kinda why I recommend setting some sane defaults from the start, which avoids this. although that ofc assumes you know them :p
<l0wigh>
well, I only built base system + xorg with -O3, thankfully I compiled webkit2gtk with -Os (8h compile time....)
<sad_plan>
well then youre good to go with just recompiling those things C:
<sad_plan>
how did webkit take 8 hours, while base took only 1h? did you build with -j1 or something?
<l0wigh>
Nah I built with -j4. I built the kyx0r one. I still don't know how that could take that much time....
<sad_plan>
hm. have you set MAKEFLAGS? even if you havent, it should still use all your cores
<l0wigh>
I did set MAKEFLAGS
<sad_plan>
hm, I see. hes using samurai instead. same as me. I belive samurai should do the same, but you can set SAMUFLAGS=-$MAKEFLAGS aswell in /etc/profile. for future builds atleast
<sad_plan>
s/-//
<l0wigh>
I'll add it just for to be sure
<sad_plan>
you can also set it to 1 more than your threads. im not sure why this is recommended though. I dont recall where ive read it.
<sad_plan>
so if you have 4 thread, your MAKEFLAGS should be -j5, not -j4
<l0wigh>
Does that really do something ?
<l0wigh>
I feel like it would just default to 4 anyways
<sad_plan>
well, make should technically do one more job simultantiously, which is what we want. more jobs being done. ill have to doublecheck this
<l0wigh>
I can try to put this and see how much time I can recompile my lightweight kernel
<sad_plan>
use time and see if theres a somewhat reasonable time difference. im beginging to think Ive think ive read this somehere, but ive not. wierd
<l0wigh>
honestly, that would be a really strange behaviour, but I can try
<sad_plan>
you can, but you might run out of ram. atleast if project is really big
<sad_plan>
are you building into tmpfs btw? it might give you a speedup in build, as ram is faster than storage
<sad_plan>
so I was right. its nproc+1 generally
<sad_plan>
so -j5 in your case
<l0wigh>
wait in tmpfs ? how I can do that ?
<l0wigh>
i'll test -j5
<sad_plan>
KISS_TMPDIR=/tmp
<sad_plan>
fuuuuuuck, I sent back my gpu earlier, got an email today.. they did not cover it. so now I have to pay ~$60, and my gpu is still.. kinda broken or w/e state one would say its in...
<l0wigh>
nvidia or amd ?
<sad_plan>
nvidia. I kinda borked it by accident when I was installing my new desktop. shredded of several components.
<sad_plan>
tried to bs my way into getting a new one, but no dice...
<l0wigh>
electro-static shit ?
<l0wigh>
Also, I need to be able to activate wifi on the macbook. I do have to download linux-firmware and copy everything I need (+ maybe compile a kernel that supports it right ?)
<l0wigh>
1h compile time for the kernel. nothing really changed from -j5 I guess
<sad_plan>
I build muon through oasis actually. has there been any relevant commits since last release? maybe ill just bump it
<ehawkvu>
how exactly does oasis work? do you have to write a build script in lua for any program that you would like to use?
<sad_plan>
yeah kinda, you write a gen.lua script, which lua will generate a local.ninja file for through setup.lua. which sounds awefully complicated. but its really not.
<sad_plan>
its a git submodule, but you can use local files, or tarballs. just like in kiss
<sad_plan>
files that needs to be generated usually have to be included, unless its trivial to generate them in lua.
<ehawkvu>
I see, so you are much more tied to the actual source in a sense ?
<ehawkvu>
it's not as chaotic as I would think it would be, peeking at the other gen.lua files
<sad_plan>
yes, instead of just running configure; make, you have to read makefiles/meson.build etc. to figure out which files is needed, aswell as how to get the generated files
<ehawkvu>
although, what would suck is if there are any big upstream restructuring efforts, you would have to rewrite the entire gen.lua
<ehawkvu>
I see
<sad_plan>
that can happen, yes, but you just check git log for changes in Makefile, and youll just adjust the gen.lua file
<sad_plan>
updating is less trivial than on kiss, but its preproducable
<ehawkvu>
I see, that definitely has it's own allure
<ehawkvu>
quite funny to see that kiss doesn't manage itself
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<l0wigh>
Hey I'm back !
<l0wigh>
So I see a little improvement in xorg but I still will recompile xorg deps also this night as well as xorg.
<l0wigh>
And I'm now able to use wifi from the macbook, and that awesome !
<ehawkvu>
if you want a whole system rebuild I do have this script
<ehawkvu>
but I would love to have a generic binary kernel so I can deploy kiss everywhere
<ehawkvu>
its the kernel stuff that is most obnoxious
<ehawkvu>
L0Wigh: surprised that all of the library stuff is that easy to fake w/ firefox tbh
<L0Wigh>
For my kernel I did get the config file from archlinux, did a make localyesconfig (while running archiso) and then build. worked fine
<L0Wigh>
Firefox is easier to fake than webkit2gtk, that's how I broke my last install
<L0Wigh>
also I did a backup of my kernel to reinstall faster
<ehawkvu>
L0Wigh: That's not a bad strategy
<L0Wigh>
I would like to strip down a bit more my kernel config, but I kinda fear to fail something
<ehawkvu>
although for almost all of my systems I need to have access to specific firmware
<ehawkvu>
namely the amd renoir stuff
<ehawkvu>
L0Wigh: you can remove a surprisingly high amount of stuff in the config
<ehawkvu>
granted you are ok with less features lol
<L0Wigh>
I don't need much feature. Do I need my webcam to work ? no. Do I need to have speakers to work ? no. Do I need to support every filesystems format ? no. ect.....
<ehawkvu>
I also use no modules though..
<ehawkvu>
everything is built in
<L0Wigh>
The goal with this system is to have something that is really fast, that let me code some C stuff and that's it
<ehawkvu>
you shouldve been able to do like a defconfig and been able to boot then ?
<ehawkvu>
but it couldve made graphics trickier
<L0Wigh>
I did a defconfig, and it didn't boot. Probably because I'm not using an initramfs or something like that
<L0Wigh>
and it was like 3h of compilation, while this config "only" takes 1h
<ehawkvu>
Yeah I don't use an initramfs either
<ehawkvu>
while I would like to use one since it would make things so much easier in some regards, I haven't had the will/need to sit down and craft my own tinyramfs config
<L0Wigh>
I personally would like to install alpine package manager or void xbps, but I feel like it would be considered as cheating and would probably break stuff
<ehawkvu>
xbps would definitely break stuff if you ran it on your actual /
<ehawkvu>
you can use it to manage a chroot though
<ehawkvu>
you can have steam installed in an xbps chroot or any other browser
<ehawkvu>
same goes for debian/ubuntu
<ehawkvu>
its nice to have "real" distros for when you need to get work done
<L0Wigh>
I still use Archlinux on my Macbook Pro and my Asus (for now, might change in the future)
<L0Wigh>
I really love kiss linux and would love to work with it in an everyday life
<L0Wigh>
not only on my spare coding computer
<ehawkvu>
kiss is definitely worth using if you want the leanest linux that is actually manageable
<ehawkvu>
but anymore I think BSD is more comprehensible
<L0Wigh>
I would also consider gentoo as an everyday life computer with the advantage of source building everything. but I love kiss too much
<ehawkvu>
that's fair
<ehawkvu>
gentoo is not a bad distro, likely the best outside of kiss
<ehawkvu>
but i think the underlying issue is with linux development culture tbh
<ehawkvu>
like I'd rather have the cathedral
<ehawkvu>
the bazaar can suck ass a lot of the time
<L0Wigh>
linux dev culture ?
<L0Wigh>
there is no kiss logo in neo/fast/pfetch ?
<sad_plan>
not tham im aware of no
<L0Wigh>
that's sad :'(
<ehawkvu>
L0Wigh: yeah, I do not like the bazaar model of development
<ehawkvu>
quite the contary
<ehawkvu>
I think it moves too fast for its own good and results in everybody trying to reinvent the wheel
<ehawkvu>
not in linux itself per se
<ehawkvu>
but in the broader software landscape which is impacted by linux distros and users
<ehawkvu>
all of the shit around wayland and X is just one such example
<ehawkvu>
or the need to abstract away every minute fucking detail into its own separate library
<ehawkvu>
like, having monolithic, *clean* libraries is actually a feature, not a bug
<ehawkvu>
BSD code compared to the average linux project is leagues more readable and succint
<ehawkvu>
arguably correct wrt openBSD
<L0Wigh>
Yeah I agree with the X11 and Wayland situation. X11 is working fine and people jumping on the wayland board that fast without any reason seems a bit strange. I'm not saying Wayland is bad. I just don't think we need to kill X11 that fast or even at all
<L0Wigh>
Ok guys, I'm going off. Goodnight everyone !
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<riteo>
me like chaos >:)
<riteo>
fragmentation's a strength, not a bug
<riteo>
want to cathedral? Nobody's stopping you, the big kids are doing it too for their commercial products. Bazaar allows the little kids to do crazy things and brute-force on the top
<riteo>
even regarding wayland, nobody stops you from making your own bespoke extensions and use them only yourself. Think SteamOS and their "proprietary" fifo/HDR extensions