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<Guest53> Anybody knows how to get the QBSP for Beaglebone AI?
<rcn-ee> Guest53, have you asked the cQT?
<Guest53> rcn-ee I sent them a ticket, but will get an answer after 2 days
<rcn-ee> Guest53, not suprised, probally on a holiday...
<Guest53> I just started with embedded and choosed Beaglebone Ai as board, but it seems everything is going to be developed for Raspberry...
<Guest53> I searched QT and nothing for Beaglebone...
<Guest53> Some old versions had, but the current one nothing. I checked if they left in other versions, again nothing.
<rcn-ee> Guest53, why do you want to use QT... you know QT is pay to play company now.. right..
<Konsgn> isn't it free for basic tasks?
<Konsgn> any addon is paid right?
<Guest53> rcn-ee yes, but since I am at the beginning and need to develop some application for managing a machine through embedded adn from the search that I did, Qt was the best and maybe the easiest.
<Guest53> I bought the start-up version, as I was checking the shortest way to get the things done.
<rcn-ee> Guest53, yes qt makes things easy...
<Guest53> rcn-ee it seems because of the yocto project, the beaglebone still is not part of the project. I really like beaglebone...
<rcn-ee> Guest53, that is for the am335x BeagleBone Black.. The BeagleBone AI is based on the am57xx, so that image will not boot on it..
<rcn-ee> Guest53, why would yocto matter? Someone has to pay QT to develop a base image for the BeagleBone AI..
<rcn-ee> Guest53, yocto support just makes it much easier for QT to do that..
<Guest53> rcn-ee I agree, but really have no clue what to do.
<rcn-ee> Guest53, after i no longer touch any QT projects...
<rcn-ee> Your best bet is to deal with the QT developers or them directly..
<rcn-ee> our BeagleBone-AI debian images have QT5 from Debian if you want to develop and use that..
<Guest53> rcn-ee can you please give me more details, as everything is new to me regarding BeagleBone-AI?
<rcn-ee> Guest53, am57xx image under: "Debian 10.x (Buster) LXQt Snapshot" it'll boot up into LXQt, which is Qt based window manager..
<Guest53> rcn-ee Thank you! I did it and installed in my BeagleBone AI. Now the problem I have is how to deploy the applications I made in QT to the BeagleBone AI?
<rcn-ee> if it's qt5 based, just copy it over... if it's qt6... that'll be fun. ;)
<Guest53> Will the app build on qt6 work in this version of Debian?
<rcn-ee> Guest53, qt6 is way way way too new...
<rcn-ee> thus no released nor testing versions of Debian have qt6 support (today)
<set_> Hello...I hope you guys figure it out.
<set_> Qt5 was neat at first.
<set_> Then, the software got pricey. Anyway, thank you for posting all this info. I am glad I was not wrong about Qt5 and their future of software engineering.
<Guest53> rcn-ee thank you! Which way of making applications for BeagleBone AI would be best? (excluding QT)
<set_> I used to use the Sphinx set of tools also. Then, they switched up and only support 64-bit now.
<rcn-ee> Guest53, i'd assume you can configure QT's tool to build for qt5?
<Guest53> set_ and which one you are using now?
<Guest53> rcn-ee I am new to QT, had it just for 2-3 days. I need to check.
<set_> Aw. Oh me, I do not use voice-to-action software right now. I stopped for a bit, e.g. hoping the .org would produce a 64-bit monster!
<set_> This was it: and it ended in 2019. boo!
<set_> They produce vosk now.
<set_> Anyway...sorry for interrupting.
<set_> I got excited again.
<Guest53> set_ LOL
<set_> Seriously, when people chat, iterjections are not always appreciated. Sort of, right?
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<set_> Guest53: There is another tool for creating GUI UX stuff.
<set_> It is used in Debian. Let me see if I can find it.
<Guest53> set_ no as more people help me as better I feel
<set_> Oh. Okay. I think in the forums for the .org, there was a few posts. Let me see if I can find them.
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<set_> I found one piece of info. for lazarus. Are you familiar w/ that GUI UX interface designer?
<set_> I am pretty sure they are open source still and freely available.
<set_> It is free pascal. Oops. I know nothing now. Anyway, that is one.
<Guest53> set_ I am new to Linux too...
<set_> Oh. Nice. I like using the BBAI for tasks. I set up a funny rendition of grabbing peoples' faces in box format w/ a couple libs.
<Guest53> I am Windows and .NET developer. Now this project is everything new to me
<set_> Oh.
<set_> Okay. Nice!
<set_> I set up a tensorflow-lite couple of issues for fun too.
<set_> It works but not w/ LCD support yet.
<Guest53> Learning everything at once made me confusing...
<set_> Ha. Me too! I second that idea.
<set_> Learning is not the faint of heart.
<Guest53> First I was trying to learn the BBAI, then I found QT and I thought that I settled the problem. And now... again
<set_> Right. Like source, it is loopy. Things reiterate w/ issues and success!
<Guest53> Yes, you are right.
<set_> Stick w/ it. Things change and sometimes things are hard coded into normalcy. I like that 32-bit machines have been around, i.e. even though I have not completely figured them out. I am only one person!
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<Guest53> The problem in this new environment for me is that I am used on getting the books and doing the work.
<set_> Right. Linux books, hmm. There are many. The debian handbook may help. There is also Linux based books like study guides for the testing for certs.
<Guest53> Here I cannot do it.... the machine is different BBAI, the images are different, and the development is unknown, so pretty out of standards that I used to use.
<set_> Oh. Well, I think you will figure something out and come out more knowledgeable.
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<set_> If you figure out how to make the LCD work on the BBAI w/ porting vision libs. to them, let this person know, i.e. set_.
<Guest53> I got the book for Linux and it is OK, I read it. Done with it. Then I got another problem: If I want to make the GUI app should I get the image with or without graphic (maybe I'm making you laugh but that is when you get from windows)
<Guest53> I wired and LCD with BBAI and it is working, put the image that rcn-ee suggested and no problem.
<Guest53> The problem that I have now, is how to code for it and deploy on it.
<set_> Oh. Like rcn-ee says, Qt5 and onward will most likely be pay-to-play. If you can configure it on the AI, I say go for it but I cannot make certain that it will work like w/ the older kernels when Qt5 and 4 were open source.
<set_> Oh.
<set_> Nice about the LCD but I am talking about using the GPU. I know nothing about it for now.
<set_> It is a secret piece to me for whatever reason.
<set_> Not just signing into the system via LCD and pushing a set of source to it...this is not what I am after. I know that works for the most part.
<set_> So, are you using pyQt or Qt?
<Guest53> The problem (as I see) with BeagleBone AI is that there is now good IDE for developing on it.
<Guest53> QT
<set_> Okay. THe .org is pushing VS Code.
<Guest53> It has C++ as language
<set_> I ht ink.
<set_> Right.
<set_> VS Code instead of the older, outdated CLoud9 IDE.
<Guest53> I have experience with VS Code since I was using .NET for long time. Is there any tutorial how to use VS Code for BBAI?
<set_> Yes. Sign in to the BBAI via usb networking and go to your IP Address and the port for the server.
<set_> Let me check it out. I am sure I can figure it out again. it may be something like
<set_> Or.
<Guest53> is for cloud9
<set_> If you are using Windows, use the other address, i.e.
<set_> Cloud9 is being phased out.
<set_> AWS took it over a while back.
<Guest53> Immediately after I login on it opens the cloud9
<set_> Hmm.
<set_> At :3000 ?
<set_> Try :2000 or :1880.
<set_> Let me sign in again and try.
<rcn-ee> Guest53, Buster still ships Cloud9... Bullseye we will move to VSCode...
<set_> Ut oh. Sorry guys.
<set_> Yes. I have bullseye on my board right now. That must have been it.
<rcn-ee> Guest53, Bullseye still needs a few xorg tweaks for the BBAI, so not ready to release a Bullseye gui update.. Stick with Buster for the BBAI for any Gui...
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<Guest53> rcn-ee, Can you please send me any suggestion?
<set_> Oh and sorry to throw around your development so loosely. I know things are not easy to produce when users want it. No issue here.
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<zmatt> rcn-ee: vscode? hosted on the beaglebone itself? or just interacting with the beaglebone in some way?
<zmatt> I suppose it should be possible for a plugin to enable using either the desktop or cloud/web version of vscode to edit and run code on the beaglebone
<rcn-ee> zmatt, yeap... vscode (inside) the beagle, just like cloud9, just uses more resources, but "supported" unlike cloud9 which has been dead since 2017...
<zmatt> I didn't immediately see anything for self-hosting the web version of vscode, but I also didn't look very hard
<rcn-ee> zmatt, it's on a checklist requirements, it'll be mostly 'disabled', but 'enabled' on release images..
<zmatt> ew, the desktop version of vscode is an electron app? didn't know that
<zmatt> does explain why there's also a web version
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<rcn-ee> here's the initial web version.. then microsoft released their browser version, so everyone' been swiching over to microsoft's version..
<rcn-ee> it run pretty decent on a am335x, but almost everything assumes "arm64" with microsoft extensions...
<CoffeeBreakfast> I was just looking for "Remote" in the extensions of vscode, like the plugin of Eclipse
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<zmatt> something like that looks like it should be much more lightweight on the beaglebone
<CoffeeBreakfast> Yes, I was reading that
<rcn-ee> there's nothing stopping you from running VSCode on your "desktop" and remote into the Beagle.. (there's a plugin for ssh..)
<rcn-ee> If you run the same version of debian on both, you can use the same gcc-cross to make sure binaries line up..
<Guest53> Yes, this is very good. I hope in near future we will be available to develop gui applications
<zmatt> our strategy for gui development was to just develop the qt5 app locally on a pc, then transfer project to bbb and compile it there (using distcc to greatly reduce compile time)
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<set_> is distcc still a thing?
<set_> Yep. I just saw it again for the second time.
<set_> They say their build is passing!
<zmatt> why would it not be "a thing" ?
<set_> B/c...I have not uttered those "distcc" words in over three years.
<set_> I figured they just moved on.
<zmatt> ??
<rcn-ee> so set_ gave up on gentoo 3 years ago then. ;)
<set_> I moved on. I remember there was a combination of scripts I used to use.
<set_> Ha.
<zmatt> why would the distcc project care about when you last uttered the words :P
<rcn-ee> set_, distcc solves a real world problem... a problem that still exits today...
<set_> I understand that they do not care but I figured some of the time is when people just stop.
<set_> Oh.
<zmatt> and the solution works very well
<set_> Speed?
<rcn-ee> just like rsync, git, nano...
<set_> Aw.
<set_> Okay.
<set_> git is handy.
<zmatt> software that works and does something people need generally doesn't stop being "a thing"
<set_> Oh. See, I learned a new thing today.
<CoffeeBreakfast> I discovered "ed" the other day... now I love it
<zmatt> lol
<set_> Sometimes, even if it is something that is needed, it sticks around.
<set_> What is ed?
<set_> Like ED or ed or acronym?
<set_> Oh.
<set_> Okay.
<set_> Text! Editor!
<zmatt> set_: a text editor with the dubious honor of having been called "the most user-hostile editor ever created"
<set_> worse than emacs?
<set_> I keep trying to find more time to learn emacs but I have faltered in time.
<CoffeeBreakfast> I use (not in an expert way) ed, nano, vim, emacs, vscode, etc.. and I consider myself well adjusted (?)
<set_> There is way to much to learn for using emacs. Ah! I use vim and nano. On my system though, I have to C & P in caution.
<set_> It is not so P'd well at times.
<zmatt> rcn-ee: I really still want to figure out if WebRTC data channels can be exploited to establish communication with https-hosted websites and local devices, to work around the problem that there's no out-of-the-box way to use TLS with local devices but browsers don't allow non-TLS websocket connections to local devices
<set_> Hmm.
<set_> So, instead of ws://, one could figure it out to host https:// w/in the ws://?
<set_> Is websockets still a thing?
<zmatt> lol
<set_> I remember one of my older books but I have not seen anything recently. Is it for intranets and not the www?
<zmatt> other way around, they're a PITA to use on intranets
<set_> Oh.
<set_> Hmm.
<zmatt> ubiquitous on the web
<set_> Aw.
<set_> Hmm, so it is like some use it for conveying messages to-and-from ws:// but it cannot hold https:// w/in the websocket for viewing?
<zmatt> in general browsers make working with local devices a huge pain... and worse yet, impose restrictions that overall decrease security (by forcing sites that communicate with local devices to use http instead of https)
<set_> Oh.
<zmatt> ehm, you're not making any sense, as usual
<set_> I am understanding more. I was unaware of devices having only http usage. That is a rip off.
<set_> I mean...
<zmatt> local devices generally can't use https
<zmatt> you can't get a cert for a local device
<set_> One could host a site and use their device on their own hosted site right?
<set_> Oh.
<set_> Hmm.
<set_> So, that causes issues.
<zmatt> (my statement isn't completely true, but it's mostly true)
<set_> I understand.
<set_> B/c I hosted a site, then put forth some odd backends and upfronts, stacks things, and then controlled a bot via the net.
<set_> I had a self-made ssl cert.
<zmatt> I've arranged for a server here at work to be locally accessible via https, but that required messing with settings in the internet router
<set_> Aw. Yep. Settings. There are a given grace. What is the deal w/ www3?
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<set_> Are you upset yet?
<zmatt> because the router "helpfully" blocks the resolution of domain names that resolve to a local IP address
<zmatt> ?? what are you talking about?
<set_> www3!
<set_> The Internet v3
<set_> Let me get you a common link if you are game... Brb.
<set_> So, it seems that www3 instead of www2/1 or whatever are for load balancing servers in particular to heavy loads.
<zmatt> there's no "internet v3" ... the internet has no versions
<set_> Okay. Is the Internet not Wide World Web?
<zmatt> no
<set_> Oops.
<set_> See. I keep learning. It is a miracle to be so wrong continuously and keep learning.
<zmatt> web2.0 is mostly a vague marketing buzzword, web3.0 seems to be even more so since it doesn't correspond to any particular technologies afaict
<set_> @zmatt: That is the first direct answer you gave me, i.e. "no".
<zmatt> pretty sure I've given you plenty of direct answers
<set_> You usually hit me w/ a mallet in the head in your mind and then curse at me.
<zmatt> whenever possible, frequently whatever you're asking is too vague or unintelligible to give direct answers :P
<set_> Ha.
<set_> I understand that my technicalities are not to the point of your verbage and usage.
<set_> I keep trying!
<set_> Trust me, being in a field filled w/ high grass does not turn me into a technical person. I promise.
<set_> If I could just set up what I choose in that darn field, I could learn a lot...
<zmatt> the web has no "versions" anyway, it is developed continually in an organic way, with new technologies and ideas being introduced all the time
<set_> When the BBB breaks, when it is power hungry, and when or how it is surviving weather.
<set_> Oh.
<set_> Okay. So, a build of many to one common thing!
<set_> So, thank you for the "no". I appreciate the courtesy. Now, onto goofin' off w/ grasses as far as the eye can see and w/out the BBB. NO!
<zmatt> the "web" is a loose collection of technologies, albeit with HTTP and HTML at its core (from its inception in 1990 all the way till today)
<zmatt> (that also highlights that the Web is not the Internet: the internet is way older than that!)
<set_> B/c of networks?
<zmatt> that's what the internet is... a big network
<set_> So, long strands connected buildings, work spaces, and homes before the day the Web took its justice to serve the population?
<set_> "Justice of the web!"
<zmatt> the web exists on top of the internet, depends on it
<set_> Hmm. This is too technical, i.e. as I say. I think, well. Okay. You are right. So, a partical or atom is an atom. W/ power these atoms or at least part of them turn active. Right.
<zmatt> the web consists of documents, made available by webservers, with the ability for one document to link to other documents hosted on the same or other webservers, thus linking all these documents together in a... world wide web
<zmatt> the internet is what enables you to communicate with these webservers in the first place
<zmatt> it carries your request for a document to the webserver, and carries that document back to you
<set_> So, the network being held is the Internet and the WWW is all the pages, online available sites, and the "modern" technologies.
<set_> Like www3.
<zmatt> www3 is a meaningless buzzword
<set_> Oh.
<set_> Okay.
<zmatt> it doesn't correspond to any actual technology, it's not clear to me it even corresponds to any meaningful idea
<set_> Well, people in the news were discussing it like it meant the world to them.
<set_> I cannot find the article right now.
<rcn-ee> set_, those same people that say 5G will cure cancer... it's marketting...
<set_> 5G Cures Cancer? Dang, time to get implants!
<set_> I know you guys know a lot. I am not discrediting you all.
<set_> I am just thinking that some things mean the same thing b/c of what it actually is currently.
<rcn-ee> zmatt, wonder if we did... <serialnumber> ->
<zmatt> rcn-ee: two problems with this: 1. the beaglebone needs to have internet access to allow you to update the dns record to its local IP
<zmatt> 2. many home internet routers block DNS records that resolve to local IPs
<rcn-ee> 3. evil people might end up using your beagle...
<zmatt> not really
<zmatt> this doesn't give anyone remote access to the beaglebone
<zmatt> you do have the problem of how to authenticate the beaglebone though, so you may need to issue initial credentials during production, or use the device's public key (or hash thereof) instead of <serialnumber> so that it can use the private key to authenticate itself to update the record
<rcn-ee> wow, this hdmi/lcd has speakers... playing a youtube video on a am335x, audio actually came alive..
<zmatt> that also avoids the problem that I've seen two beaglebones with the same serial number ;)
<rcn-ee> about 0.2 frames per second...
<zmatt> the browser would also need to _find_ the beaglebone, but if the beaglebone has internet access then could assist with that as well (e.g. share the hostnames of beaglebones that are on the same IPv4 address or the same IPv6 /64 prefix as the client)
<rcn-ee> zmatt, would gopher:// work for your app? ;)
<zmatt> lol
<rcn-ee> idk think gopher got any tls extensions..
<zmatt> but 1 and 2 are the big problem... the requirement for internet access, and the fact that it just doesn't work
<rcn-ee> yeah, 'internet access' makes it not work... at all..
<zmatt> I mean, nothing stops you from running gopher over tls... tls doesn't care what protocol is being run inside it
<rcn-ee> ah, chrome needs an extension for gopher... firefox works thou..
<zmatt> there are ways to avoid internet access, e.g. issue the cert during production and then create a dns record that points to the device's link-local IPv6 address, but that's not really useful since the cert is only valid for 90 days, and again routers tend to block dns records that resolve to local IP addresses
<rcn-ee> and the image could be 2 years old..
<set_> Right. One would have to pay.
<zmatt> the TLS route is really only possible for devices that have internet access
<set_> Well, it seems simple. Make everyone have internet!
<zmatt> and routers that either do not block those DNS records or where the user adds an exception in their internet router for that particular domain name (which is what I did to enable TLS to a local device here)
<set_> It is a catch-22.
<zmatt> rcn-ee: WebRTC data channels is my only hope, because that uses TLS with self-signed certs that are provided via javascript, since it's explicitly used to make client-to-client connections
<set_> Anyway, fun time is over. YOu guys figure something out.
<zmatt> rcn-ee: but the spec is spread out over lots of RFCs and I haven't quite figured out what exactly is needed to make it work with local devices without internet access
<set_> Host!
<zmatt> it's also been a bit since I dug into it, so I don't quite remember my conclusions so far, but iirc my impression was that it *should* be possible
<set_> if people are willing, HOst and sign up like a regular user would do so...
<zmatt> set_: what are you rambling about?
<set_> Host a website and have people sign into it as users to provide credentials.
<set_> That way, you can grant access to users.
<set_> It is a pain in the whatch-ma-call-it but that way, if people are providing support (real support for the .org), one could sign in like usual to the site as a user to get access.
<set_> Sort of like you guys already did but in a different way. User experience?
<zmatt> ????
<zmatt> nothing you're saying is related to the problem being discussed
<set_> Okay. No issue.
<set_> Sorry.
<set_> I misunderstood as usual.
<set_> Off to roam the grasses!
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<CoffeeBreakfast> I'm curious about this: using buildroot, when, e.g. `make beaglebone_defconfig`, is this line making that rule?
<CoffeeBreakfast> *not "making" the rule, I meant like a macro
<CoffeeBreakfast> I think it does
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