ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Developer talk: #armbian-devel | Forum feed: #armbian-rss | Off-Topic: #armbian-offtopic | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
KREYREN has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xoan4 has joined #armbian
xoan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
xoan4 is now known as xoan
lemonzest has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
lemonzest has joined #armbian
DC-IRC has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
DC-IRC has joined #armbian
xoan4 has joined #armbian
xoan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
xoan4 is now known as xoan
wd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
lemonzest has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
lemonzest has joined #armbian
jantones has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
lanefu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
lanefu has joined #armbian
jantones has joined #armbian
wd has joined #armbian
buzzmarshall has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
califax_ has joined #armbian
califax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
califax_ is now known as califax
jasmint- has joined #armbian
jasmint has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jasmint- is now known as jasmint
lemonzest1 has joined #armbian
lemonzest has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jasmint has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1 - https://znc.in]
jasmint has joined #armbian
Dex_2x has joined #armbian
archetech has joined #armbian
_whitelogger has joined #armbian
jasmint has joined #armbian
Dex_2x has quit [Quit: Client closed]
xoan8 has joined #armbian
Dex_2x has joined #armbian
xoan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
xoan8 is now known as xoan
Smedles has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
Smedles has joined #armbian
lyri has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
laz0r has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
laz0r has joined #armbian
lemonzest1 is now known as lemonzest
Laskolnyk has quit [Quit: Upgrade]
Laskolnyk has joined #armbian
Dex_2x has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Dex_2x has joined #armbian
laz0r has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
laz0r has joined #armbian
buzzmarshall has joined #armbian
Dex_2x1 has joined #armbian
Dex_2x has quit [Quit: Client closed]
Dex_2x1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Dex_2x has joined #armbian
laz0r has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
laz0r has joined #armbian
alekksander has joined #armbian
Smedles has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
laz0r has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
laz0r has joined #armbian
laz0r has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
laz0r has joined #armbian
jasmint has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1 - https://znc.in]
jasmint has joined #armbian
Dex_2x has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
archetech has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
archetech has joined #armbian
laz0r has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
laz0r has joined #armbian
PhotoJim has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
zeemate has joined #armbian
PhotoJim has joined #armbian
PhotoJim has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
xoan1 has joined #armbian
xoan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
xoan1 is now known as xoan
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Anyone else getting the problem of a black screen at boot after updating?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> os does start + can ssh in but the screen stays black
OwlWizard has joined #armbian
<OwlWizard> hi. i was wondering why there seems to be a need to make a iso for neerly each sbc or arm computer. do arm chips not have standartisation?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> u-boot
<OwlWizard> as in it has to do with u-boot?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Expensive ones do. Cheap ones, which are the most SBCs armbian takes care of, don't have standards like uefi
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Check FAQ in documentation
<OwlWizard> im just asking here as i have heard weird stuff about arm
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> weird stuff?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Needs elaboration, indeed.
<OwlWizard> i thought so
<OwlWizard> so im somewhat exited about qualcomm's x series laptop chips. however in a different irc channel people where telling me that arm chips in general have poor standartisation and are in general incompatibil with one another
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Well x86 in theory would have the same problem but there isn't because all manufacturers implement standards.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Bios/uefi to say
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Vendors from cheap SBCs either won't or can't afford to do that because it eats from their earnings
<OwlWizard> are there such standarts for arm?
<OwlWizard> as i dont feel all that comfortable with going with arm if there arent
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Luckily there are projects like armbian that try to mitigate this 😉
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> As said get something expensive like ampere altra stuff and you will get uefi just like you familiar with from x86
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> there are such things as platforms. each use a diff u-boot and deal with bits diff. for example if using say freescale and you don't get the u-boot right it may boot but bits of the bord won't work... get it wrong and say good by to eth.
<OwlWizard> i hope things get standardized more with arm prozessor in laptops and probably desktops becomming more common
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> people like to pretend we can just use uefi and it will solve all problems. in my opinion it just isn't true. maybe someday? i'm sure when that day comes i will be long dead.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Thing weren't as easy with x86/windows either years ago, a lot depends on drivers/updates. Arm is maturing more and more for computers/laptops etc.
<OwlWizard> i just hope they wont add non-optional-intel-ME like functionality
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> U-Boot in its own way is basically becoming an OS. Once thats become mature things will be easier.
PhotoJim has joined #armbian
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> flash points though... thats a big issue.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> What is the difference between u-boot and tow-boot?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> read it; https://tow-boot.org/
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> From a quick look I'd say it is a fork from uboot that cut support down to just a hand full boards which may work
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> ohh
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Allegedly easier to handle, whatever that means
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> u-boot for dumb dumbs
<OwlWizard> is u-boot a firmware or a bootloader?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> Like any OS it requires firmware. It is a bootloader.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Kind of both. It was does the job on a standardized system uefi would do and has the ability to load either a kernel image or another "real" bootloader
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Kind of both. It does the job on a standardized system uefi would do and has the ability to load either a kernel image or another "real" bootloader
<OwlWizard> so i could load say grub with u-boot?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> "u-boot is becoming an OS"? In what way?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> I mean, is UEFI an OS? (I personally say yes, but it ends itself and passes control, too)
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> people builds drivers for u-boot.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> it requires firmware in most cases to work
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> You can chain to grub from u-boot, yes
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> Of course, you can chain to grub from linux, too
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> I think there is even an extension for Armbian to add grub?
<OwlWizard> i feel like the distinctions between bootloader and os are rather nebolous
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> A lot of Armbian supported boards are supported by armbian BECAUSE they have weird patches or non-standard bring-up. Frequently, u-boot has to be loaded on your boot media, rather than being inherent to the SBC. Only really really good cheap SBCs have such luxuries as u-boot on some EEPROM of some kind...
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> Such as the espressobin, which boots from its flash media and can boot a standard arm64 uefi linux.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> But don't go thinking that it was Marvell (the chip maker) or globalscale (the board maker) that made this happen. It was Turris's work, right?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> Well the use of EEPROM is a bit diff right? I mean rpi's use eeprom and don't require u-boot.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> But they also boot from the GPU
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> using u-boot on a pi os a step backwards really
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> The pi bios is actually pretty neat
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> But having a processor that can read instructions and data isn't really enough to have "a working computer". And ARM doesn't (usually) have PCIe, which is a discoverable thing.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> So you need to have *something* tell the operating system (whether u-boot or linux) where to attach drivers to be able to get things like serial outputs, graphical connections, sd cards... And that "something" is usually Device Tree (though I hear ACPI is catching on)
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> My VIM3 does have a m.2 slot so probably more common than we think? (also pi 5 does have pcie)
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> ACPI is why x86 works. It's not too broken, most of the time.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> @wsy1 Its lack of being completely `OPEN` sucks. But they are neat boards.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> sure, but it's unlikely that MOST of the system is on PCI bus or PCIe... uh, fabric?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Anyone knows some fun ideas to use my spare sbcs for? ( kind of collect them)
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> mostly a bunch of orange pi's I got for a deal in bulk
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> So, if you don't have firmware or integrated storage, you have to put the device tree on the SD card, and u-boot on the SD card, and you have to hope the SBC manages to grope blindly to run u-boot, find the device tree, and bring up the rest of the system for handoff to linux.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> And that process is a steaming pile of manure, controlled by the whims of Tcheench
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> I suggest to dig through "awesome selfhosted"
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> but as long as someone, somewhere, once got it working with Android 8 and Linux kernel version 4.14, then the board is GOLD and ready to throw over the fence!
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Bookmarked the github!
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> 👍
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> I have a pihole running for years on an sbc. Recreated recently and moved from an opi1 with armbian Buster to an opi1+ with bookworm 😄
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Another one has paperless ngx on
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> @.manofthesea I thinks the question has been asnwered. ARM boards and whatnots are not unified.
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Another one was serving a nas with cloud backend and local caching
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Lots of stuff you can do with these things
<OwlWizard> i think my question has been answered thouroughly
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> once it goes over the wall, someone here says "that looks interesting and also I like self-flagellation", and picks up the board and collects random people's efforts into a tower of barely holding scripts, and maybe you get a working linux.
<OwlWizard> do you people think that windows going arm will speed up standardisation?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> For cheap boards? No. For expensive stuff? They already do that. Well more than vendors may come up doing proper stuff but well... There is only one way to find out
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> For cheap boards? No. For expensive stuff? They already do that. Well more vendors may come up doing proper stuff but well... There is only one way to find out
<OwlWizard> i meant as in things like laptops
<OwlWizard> not sbc's
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Just checked the hoard, 4x orange pi plus 2 3x pc
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Just checked the hoard, 4x orange pi plus 2 3x pc 6x prime
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Thinking about a cluster project
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> 🤔
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> For lightweight server stuff they are fine. Desktop not going to be fun
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> my orange pi's?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Yes
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Ah prime ones. Yeah that one can double a bit more
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Ah prime ones. Yeah that one can do a bit more
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Man I hate typing on phone...
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Same! i miss qwerty keyboards on phones
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Also have a bunch of pi 1b's (ancient) that i saved from the shredder
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Any uses for those? (Armv6)
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Oldest one I have is an opi0.... Well besides the unusable i96😅
<OwlWizard> i think ive seen an android/linux phone with a keyboard
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Yeah unihertz titan
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Also pinephone does have a keyboard addon with extra battery
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Sadly the pine phone is not usable as daily driver
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> you mean an N900?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <.manofthesea> (yes, I know it's not android)
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <Werner> Pine phone. Wasn't that the thing where they called first batch explorer edition or something because there was no usable software for?
<OwlWizard> no i meant fxtec. i think they stopped though
<OwlWizard> i swear someday ill buy a pinephone pro
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> I have one of the first editions
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> The ubports edition (with some hardware issues)
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Fun thing to play with!
<OwlWizard> i mean i dont do much with my phone so it might be able to replace my android phone
<OwlWizard> i dont really like smart phones all that much
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Does anyone know what to do with account single core armv6 devices?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Does anyone know what to do with single core armv6 devices?
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <c0rnelius77> use it as a print server
<DC-IRC> [Discord] <wsy1> Sadly I don't print a lot good idea though!
OwlWizard has quit [Quit: OwlWizard]
ArmbianHelper has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
DC-IRC has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ArmbianHelper has joined #armbian
xoan has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
xoan has joined #armbian
PhotoJim has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
PhotoJim has joined #armbian
danilogondolfo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lyri has joined #armbian
TheCoffeMaker has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
TheCoffeMaker has joined #armbian
TheCoffeMaker has quit [Excess Flood]
TheCoffeMaker has joined #armbian
TheCoffeMaker has quit [Excess Flood]
TheCoffeMaker has joined #armbian
TheCoffeMaker has quit [Excess Flood]
TheCoffeMaker has joined #armbian
TheCoffeMaker has quit [Excess Flood]
TheCoffeMaker has joined #armbian
Smedles has joined #armbian
Smedles has quit [Client Quit]
Smedles has joined #armbian
carlop3333 has joined #armbian
carlop3333 has left #armbian [#armbian]
lyri has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
lyri has joined #armbian
carlop3333 has joined #armbian
carlop3333 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
alekksander has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
laz0r has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
zeemate has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]