cr1901 changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
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<emilazy>
[03:20:30] -keitwo- [Global Notice 1/3] We are moving past legacy freenode to a new fork. The new freenode is launched. You will slowly be disconnected and when you reconnect, you will be on the new freenode. We patiently await to welcome you in freedom's holdout - the freenode.
<emilazy>
[03:20:47] -keitwo- [Global Notice 3/3] When you connect, register your nickname and your channel and get started. It's a new world. We're so happy to welcome you and the millions of others. We will be posting more information in the coming days on our website and twitter. Otherwise, see you on the other side!
<emilazy>
[03:20:41] -keitwo- [Global Notice 2/3] If you're looking to connect now, you can already /server chat.freenode.net 6697 (ssl) or 6667 (plaintext). It's a new genesis for a new era. Thank you for using freenode, and Hello World, from the future. freenode is IRC. freenode is FOSS. freenode is freedom.
<emilazy>
you can't make this shit up
<emilazy>
they just rebooted the entire network retaining 0 state
<tpw_rules>
it's not quite dead yet
<emilazy>
yeah i guess they still have the old one around
<emilazy>
I wonder how much of this is "all their previous servers suddenly noped out"
<miek>
it's amazing, inertia was the only thing they had left and threw that away too
<emilazy>
I mean, obviously wiping away any record of communities that moved to libera is a nice benefit for the Crown Prince I'm sure, but it seems... rushed? in a way that makes you wonder how forced it was
<emilazy>
this has to be a brewster's millions type thing right?
<emilazy>
he made a bet with one of his rich friends that he could run freenode completely into the ground?
<Lord_Nightmare>
the old network cannot be connected to anymore
<Lord_Nightmare>
if you were connected you still are
<Lord_Nightmare>
but SASL is dead
<Lord_Nightmare>
so you can't reconnect
<tpw_rules>
i should prooooooobably set up sasl on libera
<Lord_Nightmare>
I did that not long after i joined, the setup is identical to old-freenode
<Lord_Nightmare>
since the ircd is the same
<tpw_rules>
i never set it up on old freenode either :P
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<tpw_rules>
is there a way to test that i used sasl?
<tpw_rules>
ah, you get a message from SaslServ
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<cr1901>
>if you were connected you still are
<cr1901>
Ahhh, aren't in-use/stale file descriptors great :P?!
<cr1901>
The lone freenode channel I'm still in had a netsplit, so there's only one person left in the room besides me
<KitsuWhooa>
they're not going to be merged again from what I can tell
<KitsuWhooa>
rasengan calls the old split servers "classic freenode" now, which is hilarious
<KitsuWhooa>
or was it "freenode classic"
<cr1901>
So not all of the servers are (were?) using the "new (tm) freenode" settings/daemon/whatever (Idk how netsplits actually work)?
<KitsuWhooa>
they changed the round robin to point to new servers running the new ircd and new services
<cr1901>
Could I still theoretically connect to one of the old servers by connecting to a domain _besides_ "freenode.net"?
<KitsuWhooa>
and during that, the old servers split
<KitsuWhooa>
yes
<KitsuWhooa>
I think rinnegan is still up
<KitsuWhooa>
I think that's the one left with the old services as well
<cr1901>
That worked
<cr1901>
Now to make increasingly frantic requests to move the last channel I'm on off Mr. Lee's Wild Ride
<cr1901>
Or just stop idling there
<KitsuWhooa>
:D
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<Sarayan>
cr1901: irc network are trees, e.g. servers are connected to each other without loops. Which means every connection is a single point of failure
<NiGHTS>
William D. Jones sur Twitter : "Just found out how ops work on plain IRC... (12:20:16 AM) cr1901: That is SO [expletive] stupid (12:20:20 AM) [redacted]: That's how IRC works"
<KitsuWhooa>
that's what services are for =p
<KitsuWhooa>
except for when they nuke them and people gradually join your channel on a completely different network under the same name and suddenly you are no longer the owner
<KitsuWhooa>
I mean, what?
<KitsuWhooa>
:p
<Sarayan>
irc was a 100% decentralized system
<Sarayan>
with everything dynamic
<Sarayan>
nickserv/chanserv is centralization actually, which has the "freenode" issue of being possible to take over
* KitsuWhooa
points at efnet
<Sarayan>
decentralization doesn't work very well with ownership. Crypto could help but it's a nontrivial thing
<Sarayan>
ownership of names, ownership of channels
<Sarayan>
noone wants to be named or have their channels names with 4096 bits RSA public keys
<cr1901>
The feature of "once everyone loses ops, nobody can get it back" seems in direct conflict with a communications channel where failure is an expected condition
<KitsuWhooa>
well, I couldn't say no one
<KitsuWhooa>
*wouldn't
<KitsuWhooa>
or onody
<KitsuWhooa>
oh for fuck's sake my brain is dead
<Sarayan>
4096 bits is a little too much
<cr1901>
This has been a stressful 3 weeks for IRC netizens
<KitsuWhooa>
we can use ed[numbershere] instead
<KitsuWhooa>
to have less bits :p
<Sarayan>
we geeks manage 32 usually (ip addresses), kinda hate 128 (ipv6) and bigger is just impossible to tackle
<KitsuWhooa>
avahi ftw
<KitsuWhooa>
although by default that only does v4
<Sarayan>
to you have less bits you need some quasi-centralized naming authority (think DNS, the root is unique) or you'll have collisions (think pgp key hashes attacks)
<qu1j0t3>
cr1901: stressful if you have a foot still in freenode, pretty blissful otherwise?
<KitsuWhooa>
^ was about to say
<KitsuWhooa>
Sarayan: and then your isp refuses your ip
<KitsuWhooa>
well
<KitsuWhooa>
they just kill you
<KitsuWhooa>
and you have to find another isp
<Sarayan>
(I thought a lot about the irc protocol 30 years ago, does it show? ;-)
<Sarayan>
cr1901: failure is not an expected condition, when there is a split nobody loses their op status, and they get them back when it rejoins
<Sarayan>
You see it in the protocol as the server changing the mode actually
<cr1901>
If you disconnect, due to transient network conditions, you lose op status
<KitsuWhooa>
that's not a split though
<KitsuWhooa>
but I agree
<Sarayan>
If your starting point is that channels are ephemeral, it doesn't matter
<Sarayan>
It's a wrong starting point, but as an evolution of inter-terminal live messaging, it wasn't stupid
<cr1901>
It matters when a single idle user who's rarely paying attention prevents the channel from being recreated w/ fresh new ops
<Sarayan>
In practice people *want* ownership, and certral authorities to enforce it
<cr1901>
Ppl don't want to move between channels to fix the ops' mistakes. Ask how I know :P
<cr1901>
You were prob there- I lost ops before registering this channel initially. I had to move EVERYONE to a temp channel and then back
<Sarayan>
huhu
<cr1901>
Surprised the 15 or so ppl at the time put up w/ my bullshit
<KitsuWhooa>
you could've probably asked an ircop to help :p
<cr1901>
Probably
<cr1901>
But if there was no registration/ChanServ/NickServ, this would be my only choice every time all the ops DC'd
<cr1901>
simultaneously
<KitsuWhooa>
yes
<KitsuWhooa>
you could've probably had a few bots on different servers connected with op
<KitsuWhooa>
to retain it/give it to yourself
<KitsuWhooa>
but again, efnet :p
<cr1901>
And THAT is why I think how ops work is f***ing stupid in light of network conditions
<cr1901>
https://twitter.com/cr1901/status/1404723736792686592 Siiiiigh... I'm going to rest for now, but if anyone has ever seen this, I could use some help here (provided that delisting doesn't solve it in a few hours)
<NiGHTS>
William D. Jones sur Twitter : ""The IP you're using to send mail is not authorized to 550-5.7.1 send email directly to our servers. Please use the SMTP relay at your 550-5.7.1 service provider instead." Anyone ever see this while trying to send mail to gmail accounts (running your own mail server)?"
<cr1901>
gmail used to work just fine, but can't run your own mail server in 2021 I guess
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<Spance>
not really no. at a previous job we gave up on that and used a 3rd party mailing system for it, and it turned out for sending mail to gmail addresses, they sent them FROM gmail
Spance is now known as Foone
<KitsuWhooa>
cr1901: check the rDNS and see if you're in any blacklists
<KitsuWhooa>
although that error implies a misconfiguration
<KitsuWhooa>
sorry I just woke up
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<andlabs>
holy shit the new kurzgesagt video is great
<andlabs>
I should share i—
<andlabs>
<guy in video> ...yeeted into space...
* andlabs
immediately loses control and just shares it now
<NiGHTS>
William D. Jones sur Twitter : "What the fuck am I supposed to do? I added an SPF record. Removed from Spamhaus. Google won't tell me what the fuck's wrong!"
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<cr1901>
Oh, that's ironic... comcast send and receive now works, but gmail doesn't
<KitsuWhooa>
Add a DMARC and wait I'd say
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<cr1901>
DMARC doesn't seem to be the problem, based on comparing to someone else running a mail server on DO
<KitsuWhooa>
it's probably not a problem, but it helps
<KitsuWhooa>
I'd just say wait
<KitsuWhooa>
*I'd say just wait
<emilazy>
I wouldn't put too much stock in comparing different setups
<emilazy>
you don't get to choose what your IP reputation is, though admittedly all VPS providers have quite abysmal ones I think
<emilazy>
you're probably better off implementing as many of the "optional" things as you can if you want to optimize for long-term deliverability
<cr1901>
emilazy: That's fine, but... I'
<cr1901>
m more pissed off that "it worked for 5 years and _now_ Big Corp decided to hand down the IP ban"
<KitsuWhooa>
my emails have been going to spam ever since I made my mailserver :p
<cr1901>
5 years of literally "fire and forget" down the toilet
<cr1901>
Like I almost want to get a new IP to reset my reputation on principle
<KitsuWhooa>
will make things worse most likely
<KitsuWhooa>
you won't have any prior reputation on other providers + whatever the previous owner did + whatever subnet blanket ban there is
* cr1901
utters a number of swears
<cr1901>
I'll at least take a deeper look this weekend, apparently deep within Gmail there is a form you can fill out so they will tell you "what is wrong"
<KitsuWhooa>
good luck :p
<KitsuWhooa>
I don't think they ever answered mine
<KitsuWhooa>
microsoft on the other hand tends to be considerably better at this
<cr1901>
Anyways, my solution for now is to use my ISP relay, which works fine. I feel incredibly annoyed/dirty for doing this tho.
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