02:59 <pjenvey> https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html#intentional-differences-from-python

07:00 <fijal> the "Chris Lattner" part makes me sad

07:00 <fijal> oh no sorry, I'm confusing people here

07:00 <fijal> cool!

07:03 <fijal> ot

07:03 <fijal> it's not open source though

07:03 <cfbolz> yeah

07:03 <cfbolz> it's cool that they have a fast system/GPU subset of python

07:04 <cfbolz> but how many normal python features you can use will be interesting to see (there aren't even any classes yet)

07:05 <fijal> I have been thinking about the topic for quite some time - I *think* it's not that critical

07:05 <fijal> but it's critical to be able to call between the two

07:06 <fijal> like, main problem of introducing new language is "how do you have libraries" - and if you can call python that's a good enough answer

07:06 <fijal> I even tried to start one

07:07 <fijal> I completely confused Chris Lattner with the guy who did some flashy JS demos but never followed up with anything

07:29 <cfbolz> no, chris has been shipping lots of amazing things (which unfortunately are all written in c++ though ;-) )

07:29 <phlebas> it definitely looks very interesting, i wish there was more info on the "100% compatible with Cpython, we just fall back to it"

07:30 <phlebas> because we looked into that (using libpython and then falling back to that transparently), but there are so many details starting with how do you pass objects, interpreter state etc

07:30 <phlebas> but they seem confident, and it feels like a good way forward, especially the "incrementally moving modules to mojo" part

07:31 <phlebas> this quote made me laugh a little "the complexity of the Clang problem appears to be an order of magnitude bigger than implementing a compatible replacement for Python" - not sure if they are underestimating?

07:57 <nimaje> in the why-mojo.html it read to me, that they just send all python code to cpython, then the problem "just" becomes interop between python and mojo (well and making sure both runtimes agree on the global state stuff) (just to make sure, to me that doesn't seem that easy, but it reads to me like they think that way, that's why I used '"just"' there)

11:44 <phlebas> yeah, the "just" part is the one i'd be interested in. we tried that, and it turns out to be quite hairy to do that without essentially giving up and just running everything on python, but I guess the trick is in drawing the boundaries just right