08:45 <mattip> pypy recieved $50 from "github sponsors", it seems they are distributing money to lots of different orgs

08:45 <mattip> https://opencollective.com/github-sponsors/transactions

08:46 <mattip> I wonder what the criteria were for deciding the amounts

08:59 <mgorny> mattip: now you'll have to release pypy3.10 x)

09:38 <mattip> mgorny: :)

12:25 <mattip> tumbleweed: I tried the ponyorm tests.

12:25 <mattip> We are missing CALL_METHOD_KW, and tests run 3x slower with PyPy

12:25 <mattip> https://github.com/ponyorm/pony/issues/673

12:30 <LarstiQ> huh, a project not compatible with pytest

12:49 <tumbleweed> ah, right

13:50 <mattip> we have CALL_METHOD_KW, but something in the way they use it doesn't work

13:51 <mattip> for NumPy, I have spent a few days optimizing a tight loop in C

13:51 <mattip> basically doing what the JIT does: eliding constants, creating specialized paths for different types

13:51 <mattip> too bad it is C and not Python :)

13:57 <tumbleweed> mattip: yeah, their bytecode thing is a bit suspect

13:58 <tumbleweed> they compile python to bytecode and decompile it to understand what it is doing and turn it into sql queries

13:59 <tumbleweed> but their "evaluation" loop makes some *big* assumptions about what's going on, and doesn't track stack usage very accurately

13:59 <tumbleweed> I helped port it to Python 3.11 (which is why it was on my mind) and there was a lot of confusion and hair-pulling in the process

14:00 <mattip> well, that means we are somehow not quite compatible with CPython when they handle CALL_METHOD_KW for python3.8

14:00 <tumbleweed> they may be making assumptions about the order of bytecode

14:00 <tumbleweed> i.e. some optimizations cpython / pypy does break their assumptions

14:15 <mattip> we pass most of the tests, I think only one failure is a success

14:23 <tumbleweed> yeah

14:23 <tumbleweed> my experience was thousands of them failing at a time

15:23 <Hodgestar> Are there lots more bytcode changes coming in Python 3.12?

15:29 <mattip> so far no

15:29 <mattip> https://docs.python.org/3.12/whatsnew/3.12.html#cpython-bytecode-changes

15:31 <mattip> here are the faster-cpython ideas though, so there may be more changes

15:31 <mattip> https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/tree/main/3.12

15:33 <mattip> https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/blob/main/3.12/interpreter_definition.md

15:34 <mattip> https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/blob/main/3.12/tier2.md

15:46 <Hodgestar> Thanks!

15:49 <Hodgestar> I can't tell from that page what will actually be in 3.12. It's a mixture of very big projects (e.g. tracing JIT for CPython that can stitch traces together) and very small ones. The better calling convention seems nice. Maybe HPy could collaborate on the better calling convention somehow? Or at least give feedback. I know faster-python is likely mostly thinking about calling out to C code in CPython itself, but it would be good if extensions and HPy

15:49 <Hodgestar> could benefit too.

19:06 <mattip> almost ready to release. Any comments to the release note or blog post are welcome

19:06 <mattip> https://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/release-v7.3.11.html

19:07 <mattip> https://deploy-preview-86--keen-mestorf-442210.netlify.app/posts/2022/12/pypy-v7311-release.html