08:07 <indyZ> Hi. I think I'm doing something wrong. I am runing Ubuntu 20.04 and installed the "pypy" pacakge from the repos. When I run my program using "pypy3" instead of "python3," "import PIL" seems to fail because it's trying to load PIL from /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages, aka where my distro keeps cpython packages.

08:08 <indyZ> Also, if I try "pypy3 -m pip install pillow" it complains that pillow is already in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages. So my question is, how do I get pypy to install its own PIL or pillow, instead of clashing with the cpython module?

08:09 <indyZ> This is the actual error from "from PIL import Image": ImportError: cannot import name '_imaging'

08:14 <indyZ> Or am I going about this all wrong?

08:35 <mattip> indyZ: debian/ubuntu packages pypy in a way that tries to share /usr/lib/python3, but on the other hand does not ship pypy3-specific binary packages

08:36 <mattip> this creates a confusing situation where users think they have a valid package for pypy (like PIL) but in fact do not

08:38 <mattip> so you need to install pypy-specific packages, which are available via "pip"

08:38 <mattip> another option is to use conda, since then the chances you will be able to use pre-compiled binary packages is greater

08:39 <mattip> there are ~1000 precompiled binary packages in conda, and much fewer on PyPI

08:39 <mattip> if all you need is PIL and NumPy, you may be able to get by

08:44 <Olliemath> I have good luck using the ubuntu PPA https://launchpad.net/~pypy/+archive/ubuntu/ppa (as long as you don't mind frequent version bumps - which I reagard as a good thing ;) )

16:46 <tumbleweed> olliemath: those packages are conceptually the same ones as in the primary archive, just always the latest version

17:08 <Olliemath> hmm, my bad then - I must have done some extra voodoo to get it working

17:09 <Olliemath> I have both the apt version of pillow and several pypy venvs with pillow on ubuntu 20.04

17:10 <mattip> ahh, so pypy3-pillow is a package and I was giving bad advice?

17:11 <Olliemath> ^ not an apt package - I meant that I just installed it via pip

17:15 <Olliemath> possibly I get away with this because I use "https://bootstrap.pypa.io/get-pip.py | python3" to install pip, rather than using the version in apt?

17:26 <tumbleweed> olliemath: pypy3-pillow *could* (and should) be a package, but isn't there yet

17:26 <tumbleweed> err mattip

17:27 <tumbleweed> olliemath: python3-pip should work just fine

17:27 <tumbleweed> but really, you should use pypy3 -m venv to create a virtualenv and install stuff in there with its pip

17:34 <mattip> thanks for the clarification

20:03 <cfbolz> I am now officially terminally confused by the object model

20:09 <cfbolz> ah, no, good again

20:38 <cfbolz> and with that pip works on pypy3.9

21:37 <mattip> whohoo!

23:42 <indyZ> mattip: thanks for the insight re: pypy, PIL and ubuntu. Sounds like I ought to just remove the distro packages alltogether and go another route.

23:42 <indyZ> since "pip" clashes with the cpython packages

23:45 <indyZ> or use a virtualenv.