klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<moon-child> froggey: working on it...
<sortie> moon-child, you go!
<sortie> :)
<moon-child> sortie: I scoff at the filthy unix peasantry
<sortie> Join the Unix fifthist sect
<sortie> mbsnrtowcs! wcsnrtombs! wcsxfrm_l!!
<sortie> Become like the stars!
* kazinsal begins to manifest signs of Berkeley Syndrome
<heat> oh no, no comments D:
<sortie> Description: This implementation is ''new curses'' (ncurses) and is the approved replacement for 4.4BSD classic curses, which has been discontinued.
<moon-child> honestly the userspace stuff is fine. Just cruft
<moon-child> and no worse than lptcstr
<moon-child> I reserve my hatred for ioctl
<moon-child> and mmap
<heat> mmap is great lol
<heat> brk is for nerds, mmap 4 lyfe
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<gog> what if my design converges on on unix oh god oh fuck
<gog> unix is the carcinification of hobbyist osdev
<gog> become crab
<moon-child> in hebrew, the words for crab and cancer are the same
<kazinsal> it all returns to unix
<gog> in icelandic cancer is "krabbameins" crab disease
<epony> cursor and screen addressing libraries exist and get improved as long as there are such text mode / screen interfaces
<epony> no such thing as 'discontinued' ever
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<epony> moon-child, anti-UNIX sentiment is just commercial "rebranding" and "resale" of incomplete applications
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<kingoffrance> i have to mention very briefly, for gog's sake. crab was supposedly scarab long ago; kherub; https://archive.org/details/AncientEgyptTheLightOfTheWorldvolume1/page/n471/mode/2up?view=theater also gog as god goes way back, see diagram and top of 2nd page
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<zid> oh my AK sold I have £10 of steam credit to burn on something dumb
<zid> How many hours of ffxiv is that
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<gog> mewe
* moon-child pets god
<zid> matsuri is here!?
* gog curls up in moon-child's lap
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<sham1> I hope that curl was enabled with HTTPS
<zid> finding curls built with the right options is annoying unless you do it yourself/gentoo
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<kazinsal> it's four in the morning, I'm drunk, I'm on the internet, and I've realized that I really want to pet a penguin
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<moon-child> kazinsal: go to sleep
<moon-child> also penguins are cute
<sham1> They really are
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<terminalpusher> When I use `-hdd fat:rw:.`, how do I silence the `WARNING: Image format was not specified for [...] the 'raw' format explicitly to remove the restrictions.` warning? Where do I specify `format=raw` there?
<zid> ,format=raw?
<zid> suboptions are comma delimted in qemu I know
<zid> what the options are for hdd idk
<gog> i do -drive file=blah.img,if=ide,format=raw
<zid> I do.. -cdrom file=output/blahblah.iso :p
<zid> like I have an ahci driver in order to give a shit about a hdd
<zid> or a filesystem
<zid> or a vfs
<zid> or any programs to do useful work
<gog> those things are totally unnecessary anyway
<zid> agreed
<zid> tbh my plan was just to give another grub module to act as a ramfs later, when I wanted to add vfs
<zid> then splat it to a drive and get the same code working that way
<gog> i'm supposed to be working on something or other rn but i'm gonna have coffee and shitpost instead
<zid> nice
<terminalpusher> none of those work for me
<zid> deifne 'work'
<terminalpusher> I don't seem to be able to specify a raw format for a fat HDD
<zid> fat?
<terminalpusher> `-hdd fat:rw:.`
<terminalpusher> it doesn't accept suboptions
<zid> -drive does, -hdd is just for specifying files directly
<zid> if you want the drive to emulate special shit you need special commandses
<zid> not sure what fat *and* raw is supposed to mean tbh
<terminalpusher> yeah but -drive doesn't work for me
<zid> did you.. give it decent suboptions?
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<kazinsal> the -hdX fat: stuff is a bodge that won't do what you want it to
<gog> raw just means qemu accesses it as a raw disk image instead of a qcow or some other format
<zid> `fat` doesn't appear in my manual
<zid> fwiw
<terminalpusher> I did `-drive file=dir,if=ide,format=raw`
<zid> or format=
<gog> the file has to be an image, not a directory
<gog> afaik
<terminalpusher> how do I pass a dir?
<zid> and yes, files are files not dirs
<zid> mount it loopback and raid it with a flat file ;)
<gog> virtio maybe
<zid> (I have done this lol)
<kazinsal> zid: -hdX fat:/path/to/dir is a wonderful, horrible hack that presents a directory as a read-only device with a single FAT32 partition on it
<zid> my firefox profile was slow off a hdd so I made it a software raid array between a ramfs and the directory
<zid> with --write-mostly onto the ramfs
<kazinsal> the reason it's so horrible is because writing to the directory on the host while it's "mounted" on a guest is undefined behaviour
<zid> I seem to remember some thing for this, but it wasn't that
<zid> it had some silly protocol like ata it used
<zid> 9p?
<kazinsal> 9p is a mega-protocol of sorts from plan 9 but that tracks
<zid> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/QEMU/Devices/Storage This is the only place I can find that fat: thing
<bslsk05> ​en.wikibooks.org: QEMU/Devices/Storage - Wikibooks, open books for an open world
<kazinsal> it does basically everything from network file systems to interprocess communication
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<zid> dbus but not retarded? got it :p
<terminalpusher> gog: how would I use virtio to do that?
<kazinsal> it's also a network window manager
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<zid> disregard osdev, aquire one last kiss by utada
<kazinsal> ATAoE was an interesting thing for a while
<zid> I think most things should be oE tbh
<zid> it'd make my cabling situation a lot easier
<gog> terminalpusher: i have no clue tbh
<gog> i was spitballing
<kazinsal> making things oE is convenient as it lets the network people take over the datacenter cabling
<zid> we settled on oUSB which is just worse :p
<kazinsal> in my experience FCoE is a great bridge for getting people slowly off of FC and onto iSCSI
<zid> oPCIE would actually be my full preference I think
<zid> You can run pci-e cables for meters just fine
<zid> and maybe intel wouldn't have gutted their lanes
<kazinsal> considering some of the RDMA stuff that a lot of modern super-gigabit NICs can do
<zid> saves a lot of effort not having to have transceiver cards for everything too
<zid> instead of 18 usb ports on my mobo I could just have 12 e-pci-e links
<zid> I have *four* usb host controllers for those ports
<zid> (three are 4x and one is 4x + 2x)
<kazinsal> regrettably intel has not yet openly published the big fancy programming guide for nerds for the E810 big dingus ethernet controller
<zid> I've already got a big dingus so I don't mind
<kazinsal> but I would expect it has some serious RDMA capabilities baked in
<kazinsal> it's a 2x100GbE controller that supports running on up to PCIe 4.0 x16
<kazinsal> ah yeah it's got RoCEv2 in the ASIC
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<zid> kami-sama, please help me be the person I thought I was when I bought these vegetables. *eats chocolate*
<GeDaMo> Chocolate's made from plants :|
<zid> oh, phew
<zid> that makes it a vegetable
<GeDaMo> Damn right! :P
<zid> I'm also drinking vegetable soup
<zid> It's a special blend of roasted beans and sugar
<gog> same
<gog> without the sugar
<zid> i don't see the point without the sugar
<zid> then it's just bitter water I don't even have to drink to get calories
<kazinsal> the point is caffeine
<gog> if your coffee is bitter you're making it wrong
<kazinsal> beans + boiling water -> cup
<kazinsal> that's all you need
<gog> no
<gog> the water needs to be <95°C
<gog> but >90°C
<kazinsal> conveniently my kettle is kinda shit so it works out
<zid> The water in my mug is about 50C by the time it hits the half a kilo of room temperature sugar
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<zid> is this what geist means when he says I am rough with people being awful
<zid> gog: https://i.imgur.com/RkiyuXY.jpeg Is this your shop
<gog> looks like my kind of place
<gog> though i prefer real firearms
<zid> I've only shotted shootguns
<zid> pistols are kind hard to come by here
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<bslsk05> ​'I Love a Man in a Uniform' by Gang Of Four - Topic (00:04:07)
<zid> bet you do
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<j`ey> i just put a glucose monitoring sensor into my arm, and can read it from my phone with NFC, freaky
<zid> how many glucoses do you have
<j`ey> 7.6
<zid> is that good
<j`ey> for me, yes
<_eryjus> j`ey: what units? not familiar
<zid> go for the WR
<j`ey> Im trying to get it to average under 8
<j`ey> _eryjus: mmol/L
<j`ey> but im not sure what it's measuringg, sugar per litre of blood?
* _eryjus looks for his glucometer
<zid> thousands of a mole of glucose per litre if I had to guess
<zid> danthtshs
<j`ey> something like that
<_eryjus> mg/dL is what mine uses... tested 255 just now
<j`ey> _eryjus: what country are you in?
<j`ey> or continent
<_eryjus> US
<bslsk05> ​www.endmemo.com: Glucose mg/dL mmol/L Unit Conversion -- EndMemo
<j`ey> ooh, thats a bit high _eryjus
<zid> he's beating you though
<_eryjus> yup... bad dawn effect and caffeine driven
<j`ey> _eryjus: fuck the dawn effect
<j`ey> _eryjus: ive started giving myself small amounts of insulin early in the morning to combat that
<_eryjus> j`ey: I have a pump. it changed my life.
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<j`ey> _eryjus: oh nice
<j`ey> _eryjus: ive avoided a pump
<bslsk05> ​blog.providence.org: You May Not Know about This Diabetes Type--But You Should
<j`ey> oh weird
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<zid> I have a weird type where if I stop eating for a couple of weeks I just die
<_eryjus> zid, to combat that, do you follow the see-food diet?
<j`ey> _eryjus: lol
<gog> i should eat something
<gog> but i don't feel hungry
<zid> _eryjus: no, I begrudingly eat slightly more frequently than that
<zid> if I didn't have that condition I probably wouldn't at all
<gog> at least i'm doing better than when i was on a protein shake and cigarette diet
<gog> :p
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<zid> that sounds good
<zid> I am on the sugar water and cigarette diet
<gog> that's how you wind up in hospital in my experience
<zid> what for?
<zid> I've been at it for 30 years so far
<gog> self-care is important zid
<gog> you matte
<gog> r
<zid> It's not self loathing I just cbf to eat
<zid> it's a hassle and not fun
<zid> I'm mad all my drinks have gone from 40kcal to 20kcal
<zid> I'm not allowed to die anyway, bookworm hasn't finished being translated
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<gog> trying to wrap my head around how to do a red black tree
<gog> i was ditching class during this part of the algorithms course :|
<zid> yea that's definitely a thing I'd write once from wikipedia or whatever
<zid> then reuse forever cus C
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<zid> oh, good news, utada just announced her 8th album.. an hour ago
<zid> with all the new eva stuff on it
<gog> yeah that's what i'm doing currently
<gog> also having something to eat while hypocritcally chiding my wife for not having eaten yet
<zid> I mean, you're still ahead of her
<gog> how do i make this code less obviously cribbed from pseudocode
<GeDaMo> Change all the variable names! :P
<zid> split it into functions and get rid of all the locals by using the arguments
<gog> i guess my reputation as a terrible programmer won't be tarnished
<zid> gist it and I'll tidy it up to my personal taste, then it won't look like you stole it
<zid> It'll look like I stole it
<gog> and have a contribution i need to attribute to you in my work?
<zid> nah
<gog> i don't know howi feel about that
<zid> I'll donate it
<gog> how gracious :p
<zid> okay then I won't, $400 for a sublicence?
<zid> idk what you want :(
<gog> i want you to be happy
<zid> you hear that guys, gog's buying me a pony
<gog> ginuwine - pony.mp3
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<froggey> zid: this stupid game is making me *think*! I don't play games to think D:
<zid> yea fuck that
<heat> i play games to scream at my friends
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<zid> Just be glad it isn't stephen's sausage roll
<zid> If they'd have participated in the current steam sale I'd have bought it
<zid> turing complete, that is
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<zid> I could explain it to you but I've ran out of crayons
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<gog> ok i think i'm closer to groking this red-black tree
<gog> so you can keep the crayons in the box zid
<zid> I ran out ages ago, they're too tasty
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<gog> ok so i think i understand the rbtree with a single key
<gog> now i need to figure out the comparison of address and size as a key
<heat> why
<heat> you only need a single key
<gog> :thinking:
<gog> i'm not grasping this
<ZetItUp> Happy new year :)
<heat> the first function of a rb tree with vm regions is as a way to look up a region based on an address
<heat> the second function of a rb tree with vm regions is as a way to know what regions of address space are free so you can allocate a new region
<heat> no sizes here
<heat> size truly doesn't matter
<j`ey> dont you need the size to know if an address is in a region?
<rb> i needed to hear that, thank you
<gog> the size is contained in the node
<gog> ok i think i get it
<gog> you search for the requested address and then the requested address + size
<gog> if both are contained, move on
<gog> right?
<heat> j`ey, yes but you can do things like specify a cmp function that does magic stuff like that, for example edk2's rb tree has that
<heat> gog, no
<gog> :|
<heat> is this in the is_this_address_size_pair_available()?
<gog> yes
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<heat> search for nodes equal or greater than $address, if NULL that's great, if non NULL you check if node.address >= address + size
<sham1> isThisAddressSizePairAvailable
<sham1> camelCase is so readable guise
<heat> snake_case
<sham1> kebab-case
<j`ey> is_This_Address_Size_Pair_Available
<sham1> j`ey: no
<gog> is_heat_a_tosser
<gog> always returns true
<gog> huh
<j`ey> w0w
<gog> sorry you're tryign to help me :p
<heat> ;_;
<gog> heat i'm sorry i was playing and i play too much
<heat> i am so sadge
<heat> can we hit 1000 stars on Onyx? for me because im sadge
<sham1> These fireworks have been going on for a couple of hours now
<gog> i starred you
<gog> as penance for beign mean
<heat> onyx will into space
<heat> anyway did you get the logic?
<gog> i think so
<gog> will continue my experiment
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<gog> thank you :)
<heat> np :)
<heat> note: this is not how you're supposed to allocate
<gog> ??
<bslsk05> ​github.com: Onyx/vm.cpp at master · heatd/Onyx · GitHub
<heat> in this case you just need to be clever with the nodes and try to check if the gaps between nodes are properly sized for your allocation
<heat> doing lots of rb lookups all across a range of address space until you get something totally free is not ideal
<gog> no my plan was to keep a pointer to the lowest free address and start checking from there
<gog> if that address is free, check if that address + size is free
<gog> that doesn't mean there's a gap tho
<gog> hm
<gog> because size could skip over something in between
<heat> yes, the algorithm I described deals with that
<heat> but you'll still need to find the next lowest address if you go with that route
<heat> eventually you need something like the gap algorithm I described, because having the lowest free address always means you'll need to find the next free address
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<gog> i'm concerned i'm too stupid to understand this :|
<sham1> Oh, you went with RB trees for the memory management
<sham1> Neat
<gog> haven't yet
<gog> working on grasping how it works
<gog> then i'm going to write the actual code
<heat> gog, any question in particular?
<gog> no, i think i'm just tired and need a break
<gog> it's almost dinner time anyway
<heat> ACK
<zid> RB trees are hard to write and I still don't get how you're supposed to allocate it without an allocator :p
<heat> zid, you can have an allocator, it just can't use the rb tree
<heat> aka
<heat> BRK TIME
<zid> so I guess, a NODE POOL
<zid> and do the 'swap to end' trick to delete
<heat> brk or no deal
<zid> I use it for mapping FDs to pointers a lot
<gog> this is for vm space
<gog> at the point in time this is being initialized everything the vm allocator needs is ready to go
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<zid> right but it's a tree
<zid> so nodes get added and removed all the time
<gog> nevermind
<zid> I guess you could loop it back into the real allocator once it's booted up though
<zid> and it should be bootstrappable
<gog> it is bootstrappable i already have it set up like that
<gog> i sort of have a clue here
<zid> sick
<zid> I have absolutely no idea how you figure out how the tree should look while the tree is representing.. itself..
<zid> so gj
<gog> i have the nodes i know are going to be at fixed locations during runtime statically allocated
<zid> will free work on them correctly, like that?
<gog> it's not written yet, but the way i intend on it working that an attempt to free() any fixed memory location is a panic()
<zid> like, to boostrap my bitmap I had to do the math to figure out that each page can represent 128MiB so I had to subtract that from my total memory, then steal that many pages, and create the bitmap so that that many bits were already unfree etc to bootstrap it
<zid> bootstrap bootstrap
<zid> harder when it's.. list nodes
<zid> but probably doable once you write the code
<zid> just make it represent blah, see how much memory it uses, add that to the base address you're wanting it to represent in the first place in the code as a magic constant
<gog> well for physical page frames, if that's what you're talking about, the init code just has a basic bump allocator that'll steal pages from the memory map passed to the entry routine
<zid> those pages aren't mapped? :)
<gog> i use a trick to map them to a temporary virtual address
<gog> it's kinda hacky
<zid> ah if you're temp mapping then everything is free af yea
<gog> so like the kernel space is 2GB, so before boot i make two PD's, insert them in the last two entries of the higher PD
<gog> the temp space is the third to last
<gog> and i just map the whole 2MB that a 4KiB page lives in and find the offset
<zid> oh I have 128TB of kernel space so I tend to just.. map everything
<gog> idk what it is about my psychology but i just don't want things mapped that don't need to be mapped
<j`ey> gog: thats normal
<gog> even if there is virtually unlimited address space
<zid> hey if it makes free/malloc faster, I'll do it np
<j`ey> although, linux maps the entirety of memory heh
<zid> I do for the sole reason of writing 0s to my freelist
<gog> whatever linux does i want to do the opposite so maybe i shouldn't keep track of my allocated vm regions with an rb tree :p
<gog> i guess by not having a working kernel i'm doing exactly the opposite of linux
<gog> good job me
<j`ey> lol
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<gog> ok in struct rb_itor
<gog> err rb_node
<gog> you have key and datum
<gog> @heat
<gog> for its use in your vm allocator, is that roughly equivalent to base and length or am i misreading?
<Ermine> Happy new year!
<sham1> It's gonna be so weird to have to start saying 2022
<zid> You're 3 hours early
<zid> What weird tz is that
<zid> I'm too lazy to check usr/timezones
<bslsk05> ​en.wikipedia.org: UTC+03:00 - Wikipedia
<zid> I did wonder if it was moscow time
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<sham1> Just under one hour left here
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<gog> i'm a fuckin dumbass i think i get it now
<gog> XD
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* Bitweasil yawns.
* Bitweasil fights with Qubes.
<Bitweasil> Another day or two and I'll just give up and go back to Ubuntu...
<zid> gog: ah it finally clicked?
<gog> yes
<gog> i think so
<zid> nice
<gog> i'm writing stuff rn
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<moon-child> what happened?
<zid> gog was trying to solve P=NP, we've got a handle on it now though
<gog> i was tired and hungry
<gog> that's what happened :p
<zid> I'm always a constant level of stupid
<zid> there are no multipliers you can use for it
<gog> i'm less consistent unfortunately
<gog> what i'd give for the certainty of my own ignorance from time to time
<zid> I tend to focus better when *slightly* tired though
<zid> I have like a ballmer peak of 3 hours from 9pm to midnight
<gog> yeah same that's when i smoke weed :p
<zid> weed makes me have severe existential dread
<zid> and supreme anxiety
<FireFly> just let N=1, duh
<gog> existential dread is the background noise of my life
* FireFly taps heads, nods
<zid> like, borderline panic attack
<gog> FireFly: o damn thanks
<gog> yeah you smoked too much
<FireFly> you're welcome
<gog> that's what happens when you smoke too much
<gog> i do it like 5 times a month
<zid> I barely smoked any
<zid> it was an accident
<gog> it's potent
<gog> if you're not a regular smoker it will hit you
<moon-child> first time I encountered P = NP I was like 11 and playing nethack and got the oracle consultation about it
<moon-child> could barely parse it. I figured out N meant not, so I thought P was like a boolean variable
<zid> I'd completely ran out of smokes and took a couple drags off the end of a joint with no actual weed in that part
<moon-child> and they were trying to prove P = ~P
<gog> yeah that's where all the resin that isn't hot enough to stay vaporized ends up
<gog> thc is soluble in that
<zid> someone smoked the entire rest of it lol
<zid> and was fine
<zid> I'm definitely sensitive to it
<gog> they probably smoke regularly :p
<zid> I liked hash when I was 13
<zid> I do wonder if the hash was all indica and the weed is sativa
<zid> hash is more fun too, warming it up and crumbling it
<bslsk05> ​www.youtube.com: Smoke Weed Everyday - YouTube
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<zid> oh, fireworks
<zid> 2 hours early you silly sausages
<Bitweasil> "I tried snorting coke once... but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose!"
<zid> Bitweasil: that's why I don't like tea, the stabbing pains in my eye
<gog> yeah they're going wild here
<gog> i think there's a curfew so they might be trying to beat it?
<zid> there's.. someone, who lives near me who likes fireworks
<zid> any excuse
<zid> just launching them from their garden
<gog> i just don't like stepping over the charred remains of a repeater cake that somebody left in the sidewalk :p
<gog> sorry, pavement
<zid> I kinda like finding random rocket sticks
<zid> it's like a message in a bottle, but inland
<gog> do you write little notes on them
<zid> usually, MADE IN CHI
<gog> and hope somebody reads it and feels happy
<zid> or IN CHINA
<gog> ah yes
<gog> are you sending out an sos to the world zid
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<geist> good afternoon my pretties
* Bitweasil flies.
<FireFly> g'evening all :3
<gog> :)
<FireFly> T-30 min for CET new year
* gog passes a bagel to geist
<geist> yay bagel
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<geist> now everytime i see bagel i can't unhear Britta saying bagel
<bslsk05> ​'Taylor Swift - 22 (Taylor's Version) (Lyric Video)' by TaylorSwiftVEVO (00:03:51)
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<geist> eep, netsplits ville
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<zid> beeg split
<geist> eep
<geist> well looks like only about 20 of you left my side of the shard at least
<geist> so probably just one server
<zid> I should register zid`
<geist> but that woulda been big for you
<zid> when I reconnect I never log in and can't join channels
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<zid> okay that was fairly easy
<zid> just /nick to it and /msg nickserv group
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<geist> yah dunno when nickserv added the group thing but it's nice
<geist> may have picked that up with the new network
<zid> freenode had it fairly sure
<gog> it did
<blockhead> the group thing?
<gog> you can group your nick with another
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<blockhead> interesting. i didn't know that. ty.
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<geist> yah i think on freenode i had just separately registered them, but then i had done it like 15 years prior, so if the feature was added later i wouldn't have seen it i guess
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