klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<geist> yay space
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<clever> some progress, `return 5*5` gives 25!
<clever> but `5*5` crashes the system
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<moon-child> crashes the compiler, or the generated code crashes?
<zid> 25! is too big, no wonder it crashes
<geist> that's what i was thinking too
<klange> clever: I'm sure you wouldn't have these problems with Kuroko! https://klange.dev/s/Screenshot%20from%202021-09-16%2009-49-37.png
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<kingoffrance> quote i'd pledge my fealty to a based foss king if he wasn't a j-hole those are fake kings. real king: King Osric: What daring! What outrageousness! What insolence! What arrogance!... I salute you. </conan the barbarian>
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<klange> The actor who played that role, Max von Sydow, passed away last year. Also he was originally "Carl Adolf von Sydow", and adopted the name Max while serving in the Swedish Army Quartermasters Corp.
<klange> And relevant to your name, he naturalized in France in 2002, so he was French and a king!
<klange> Unrelated, ugh, I did a thing a while back so my tiled windows wouldn't have two-pixel-wide borders in the middle, but while I think I wanted to have their one-pixel borders overlap that does _not_ seem to be what I did...
<klange> Instead they have overlapping pixels, so their borders swap back and forth and it's covering some text if I have two terminals side by side...
<klange> Might just be a rouding error...
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<klange> Ah, I see what I did.
<klange> This is the behavior I want, one pixel of overlap to account for the borders on decorated windows: https://klange.dev/s/Screenshot%20from%202021-09-16%2013-03-48.png
<klange> so then when they're decorated it's a single pixel gray line https://klange.dev/s/Screenshot%20from%202021-09-16%2013-04-41.png
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<kingoffrance> well gog isnt even here :/
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<klange> In my "silly little things" adventure... How about an I-beam cursor? https://klange.dev/s/Screenshot%20from%202021-09-16%2016-44-14.png
<klange> The terminal even does the right thing and switches to the regular pointer for apps that accept mouse input, just like a VTE terminal does.
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<klange> also prototyping a file picker mode for my file browser so that apps can call it to provide an "Open" menu option: https://klange.dev/s/Screenshot%20from%202021-09-16%2017-16-18.png
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<[itchyjunk]> I have a bit of a convoluted question. I wanted to write hello world in assembly in RISC-V. But it turns out that without a kernel, i would need to write drivers to let the video card know how to print that hello world to a screen or some such.
<[itchyjunk]> As such, i supposidly want some bare minimum kernel that had printf and some emulator that can run said kernel so i can learn to write a hello world
<[itchyjunk]> I was also told that someone here would have such a kernel lying around. if that is the case, can i have it?
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<Mutabah> I'd suggest going for qemu as the emulator, and implementing a basic UART driver
<Mutabah> Or, just write your code targeting linux
<[itchyjunk]> How difficult is it to implement a basic UART driver.
<[itchyjunk]> "driver" sounds big and scary
<Mutabah> very simple
<[itchyjunk]> oh.. so qemu will emulate the hardware and i can directly write a driver to display stuff ?
<[itchyjunk]> Nice!
<Mutabah> Yep
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<GeDaMo> Is it possible to get Qemu to allocate an area of memory as video memory along the lines of a PC text mode? So you could write bytes to memory and have them display?
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<Bitweasil> Isn't there a region of legacy PC memory that's exactly that? Or are you not in x86?
<Bitweasil> [itch...
<Bitweasil> Oh, sorry, RISC-V.
<GeDaMo> I was asking in relation to [itchyjunk]'s query about RISC-V
<GeDaMo> Yeah
<Bitweasil> I mean, banging on a PL011 or 16550 is about as simple as it gets.
<Bitweasil> 16550? Whatever the standard PC UART chip is, 3f8 sort of thing.
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<graphitemaster> confusing HDMI for LPC bus because same damn port
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<geist> it's even easier in emulation, since many emulators dont bother emulating a full uart
<geist> ie, you write data out of the fifo with an instruction and it pops out the other end
<geist> no fifo, no back pressure, etc
<geist> depedns o the emulator and emulated uart, etc but that is the case i'd say at least 50% of the time
* Bitweasil whistles.
<Bitweasil> Yup. Baud rate settings. Got it.
<Bitweasil> Toooootally will tell you the same thing if you ask for it.
<Bitweasil> <GlaDOS>Speedy byte come in, speedy byte go out!
<geist> heh yep.
<Bitweasil> No. The transmit FIFO is not full. It has zero bytes. Still zero. Always zero. Look, no matter how much you send the transmit FIFO will be empty! :D
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<superleaf1995> heh
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<rebidio> with smaller transistors it is not about capacitance, the last which is resistance of transistors, it is about wires being shorter on those logic dies, shorter wires have less resistance. When you switch faster and push things through shorter wires, you gonna win the war against older chips too.
<rebidio> So in the end when on wired logics some parallel muxes are present, they fight over one chip the victim for an example of the attack vector, fills in stall cycles to detect timing errors, but a blackhat hacker has faster chip in terms of shorter wires on parallel unit muxes than he is gonna sense it sooner and win the battle also
<[itchyjunk]> Sounds complicated :x
<[itchyjunk]> Do you guys mostly use C or somesuch to write stuff?
<clever> [itchyjunk]: i prefer using C, because i'm targetting at least 5 different cpu cores at once
<clever> having a compiler translate things for me, saves a lot of work
<clever> Bitweasil: i noticed something in qemu + lk, when looking at the pl011 drivers
<clever> Bitweasil: when the software fifo gets full, LK will turn off the rx interrupt, so, it just stops getting interrupts and the hw rx fifo begins to fill up
<clever> Bitweasil: i believe this causes some backpressure, where qemu will stop reading from whatever fifo is tied to the uart, and then cause the source program to also block
<[itchyjunk]> What is the "hello world" equivalent in the os dev world?
<clever> [itchyjunk]: id say printing to the uart is a hello world app
<[itchyjunk]> ;_;
<kazinsal> Probably "hello world".
<clever> when i lack a debug port, and am just starting out, i just jam some print statements in
<clever> and i have done uart with raw asm as well, just to get uart earlier
<[itchyjunk]> well then back to figuring out how qemu works.. i wanted to do hello world for RISC-V.. which needed me to write a uART thingy.. which needed me to understand how to do it with qemu
<clever> [itchyjunk]: does the qemu risc-v use a pl011 uart?
<[itchyjunk]> i .. have no idea
<clever> thats the first thing you need to figure out, which uart is it using, at what addr
<rebidio> actually it is not complicated at all, it's all hw, so truth table I allready gave , at one end you have a procedure that upload a tcp checksum and on the dma master you keep the bus closed by corrupting a bit which should scan it out, then the truth table based procedures can arbitarly corrupt the bits, on the victim side if faster interface fills in some encoding of stall cycles , the attacker loses cause one can not react as fast to compute the stall
<rebidio> cycles, but if he can with faster interface he is going to win
<rebidio> samewise as faster runner would always win the running sprint
<[itchyjunk]> i can't even figure out how to get qemu to emulate RISC-V xD
<moon-child> qemu-system-riscv(32|64)
<[itchyjunk]> hmm says command not found.. but i have `sudo apt install qemu`. do i need to install that particular thing first?
<rebidio> they had this exploit always there it's called webRTC ip leak
<[itchyjunk]> i see `qemu-system-x86` but no `qemu-system.riscv*`
<rebidio> to design those exploits to compromise some target server is not very hard task when you know what you are doing
<clever> [itchyjunk]: you may need to build qemu from source
<[itchyjunk]> ;_;
<rebidio> the fast pipeline is nothing complex either
<rebidio> cause the chip is authored with clock domans which have compensation latches
<rebidio> in terms of cross domain clock checking
<rebidio> clocks have compensation phases, when one of the interconnect masters is pulled into self-timed mode, everything else will be too
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<rebidio> why am i so confident, cause i have all the timing reports
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* clever cheers
* Mutabah morningyawns
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<jundertwo> You consider those things as nuclear science the last which is easy too, but to authore the hw just like it was meant to be authored by the underlying design is just a lot easier thn you grasp atm. it's no real work at all incolved.
<jundertwo> *involved
<clever> Mutabah: is he back already?
<kazinsal> the +b is a necessity. keeps the channel stable for approximately 45 minutes
<clever> kazinsal: yeah, he's on the same ip, so that would work
<jundertwo> the memory multiplex encodings is not a big work either, when you know what you are doing
<jundertwo> the microsoft DNA memory was developed by me anyways
<jundertwo> all the infra as of today even if the pals were not doing it the wisest is allready there, hence i was not much interested to unneeded work on windows kernel reimplementation cause there is mono and nuget long since there, and public domain code can be converted legally from this
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