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<peepsalot>
is there an actual non-profit organization for openscad?
<InPhase>
I don't think anyone has registered anything, no.
<InPhase>
That was what Jordan was suggesting a month or so ago, that maybe it would be prudent to think about doing so.
<peepsalot>
i thought kintel had created something long ago
<InPhase>
Wouldn't it be written or noted somewhere?
<InPhase>
Doesn't do much good to have a secret organization. ;)
<InPhase>
Well, for conspiracies maybe, but not so great for open source.
<peepsalot>
idk, i thought i remember it mentioned somewhere, but maybe if it was, it expired? i dont know how registration like that works.
<JordanBrown[m]>
I wasn't suggesting anything legal, just formalities for how this unincorporated group would work together.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Something legal does have the advantage of having something other than a person who can hold a trademark.
<InPhase>
A framework would permit registering, and registering would make it easier to organize spending of donated money in a nice transparent way. That would be a nice thing for notions like having a library site.
<JordanBrown[m]>
There are certainly advantages to setting up a legal entity.
<InPhase>
You technically don't need them all together, but it combines nicer than separate.
<JordanBrown[m]>
There are costs too, both in dollars and in time.
<peepsalot>
isn't there a bank account with some amount of funds in it?
<JordanBrown[m]>
I know somebody who has done several CA nonprofits and I am sure would be willing to help, but somebody would have to commit to doing annual tax paperwork, et cetera.
<InPhase>
peepsalot: There's a donation site with something close to $20k built up.
<InPhase>
JordanBrown[m]: Well step 1 would be to hunt for the least burdensome jurisdiction I suppose.
<InPhase>
Or some combination of low burden and good framework rules.
<InPhase>
I am not sure how Libera picked Sweden, but they must have done some homework regarding their needs.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Low paperwork burden, low costs, easy to work with.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Whether geography is part of "easy to work with" I don't know.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Maybe they have people there.
<InPhase>
Someone local probably helps.
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<JordanBrown[m]>
Stupid question du jour: when you check "dump pictures"... where does it dump them?
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<JordanBrown[m]>
I think I found them, was looking relative to the wrong file.
<JordanBrown[m]>
InPhase where would you host a temporary video?
<InPhase>
JordanBrown[m]: imgur will do
<InPhase>
Some quality is dropped, but if it's just to show it, that's fine.
<JordanBrown[m]>
You can't run this, but you might be interested in what it does and how it does it: https://bpa.st/TQ7Q
<InPhase>
I'd like a dedicated object comprehension syntax, but this is a nice start.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Used in this case for interpolating between arbitrary states of an animation.
<InPhase>
Yep.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Exactly how you would fit in, say, interpolating along a bezier path, I don't know.
<InPhase>
Well, cubic spline or similar would fit better.
<InPhase>
A bezier is a "whole system" sort of path.
<JordanBrown[m]>
right, the question is how to have a single animation step that is "move from here to here along this bezier/spline/arc/whatever".
<JordanBrown[m]>
It would be easy enough to express every single step along the path in the animation list, but that would not be human-suitable.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Probably the answer is to have one of the values be "position along the path", set to -1 when not used and 0..1 when used, and then you do the interpolation along the path separately.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Perhaps the object interpolator should not get unhappy when the two objects don't match, but rather should interpolate val1...undef and undef...val2 as undef, so that you only have to supply the entries when you have val1...val2.
<peepsalot>
got distracted for a bit there, but the reason i brought up non-profit is: if we want to ever sign mac releases, we need membership in apple developer program, which requires a legal entity, and $99/yr... which a non-profit can apply to potentially be waived
<Scopeuk>
you do still need the apple dev account for the certificates becouse blessed apple and all that nonsense
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<linext>
is there any licensing issues for copying customizers from thingiverse?
<linext>
are there license that permit republishing the content/
<linext>
also, what's the * operator used for, for example: *translate([0, 0, handle_thickness/3])
<JordanBrown[m]>
The * modifier suppresses a part of the model.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Makes it go away.
<linext>
like commenting it out?
<JordanBrown[m]>
similar, yes.
<JordanBrown[m]>
it still has to be syntactically valid, but is not executed.
<J1A8481>
na it need to have a certain form that is all variables the module name all that is not checked.. » *cyliander(noway);
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<peepsalot>
linext: by copying customizers, you mean the individual .scad files? iirc each design is required to choose a license when they upload it, and they are all CC variants
<peepsalot>
share-alike, with attribution, non-commercial etc.
<peepsalot>
there is a pane on the left hand side of a thing titled "License"
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<nobody666>
Hi fellas
<nobody666>
Anybody know what may cause openscad to render a black box only? like the same way freecad ?
<nobody666>
Installed them on Void linux
<InPhase>
nobody666: OpenGL issue with the graphics drivers?
<InPhase>
nobody666: Test out glxgears perhaps.
<nobody666>
oh no glxgears
<nobody666>
found it and and the gears are rolling at 126 fps
<peepsalot>
linext: although, there can be potential issue when someone "remixes" a design, thingiverse does not seem to enforce that the derived work inherits the license of the parent
<nobody666>
does openscad require some kind of 3d thing that qemu cannot give ?
<InPhase>
nobody666: It's possible. qemu can have a lot of issues with 3D stuff.
<InPhase>
It might depend on how you have it all setup.
<nobody666>
i just did xbps-install
<nobody666>
But it seems that 3d rendering is borked
<nobody666>
At least in those 2 programs
<InPhase>
We share no code, as far as I'm aware, except that both freecad and openscad use Qt for the gui.
<InPhase>
So it might be a general issue with whatever Qt does to setup a 3D window not meshing with the qemu setup.
<nobody666>
the little black boxes at rendering 3d are the same
<teepee>
what's "openscad --info" saying, specifically the OpenGL stuff at the end?
<teepee>
and what's the platform? arm / intel / ... ?
<nobody666>
x86_64 0.20.1
<InPhase>
nobody666: You can run: openscad --info | tail -n 20 | nc termbin 9999
<nobody666>
x86_64 linux with new kernel
<InPhase>
nobody666: Then give us the link provided.
<nobody666>
oh
<InPhase>
nobody666: You will need nc installed for that, if it doesn't come with Void Linux (I've never tried this distro).
<teepee>
in other news, we probably have to cancel all the advent stuff, I'm likely reading too much twitter to do anything useful for a while ;-)
<teepee>
it's crazy, funny and sad all at the same time
<InPhase>
teepee: I think I have access to setup the web pages for it, and could probably do this on a weekend by just stealing your good stuff from last year.
<InPhase>
teepee: The only thing I don't have access to is creating the 2022 repository.
<InPhase>
teepee: Not sure if there's anything else involved with it.
<nobody666>
So you meant paste it
<teepee>
well, that was partially a joke :) but the repo exists already, I renamed the "collect all the things" repo prefilled by J1A8481
<InPhase>
nobody666: Yes, I was just trying to make it easier. Sometimes working in a VM can be a pain for copying and pasting out, depending on what you have setup. :)
<InPhase>
teepee: Ah. :)
<nobody666>
It actually works as a live system too btw, 2 web browsers now, even irc chats
<teepee>
and that single tweet I liked in years is now protected. so mr. elon is sitting at twitter hq playing whack-a-mole with employees making them ex-employees
<nobody666>
xfce desktop
<teepee>
hmm, llvmpipe and v4.5 compat looks good
<teepee>
something bad is going on. that matches the issue we saw with the github remote desktop thingy... what was the name
<othx>
teepee linked to YouTube video "Hitomezashi Stitch Patterns - Numberphile" => 2 IRC mentions
* teepee
will not click on things that have NFT in it unless the URL starts with theonion.com
<Friithian>
lmao nft
<linext>
i don't get how nft enables payments
<teepee>
I suspect that's mostly because they are not :)
<teepee>
I think there are likely meaningful use cases for NFT, but I don't see any of the current usages fitting that criteria
<J1A8481>
these stich pattern seem to be not too difficult to make .. i already had a coaster with a similar system
<J1A8481>
would be nice as animation (like the end of the vid)
<nobody666>
Are you programmers too? Who is into C ?
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<peepsalot>
C++ mostly, because that's what OpenSCAD is written in
<InPhase>
I used to be into C, but it's 2022 and C is pretty antiquated. I do C++ now for application-level development.
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<nobody666>
C is a bit weak in my opinion too, but i could give it a boost using macro magic
<nobody666>
The gcc preprocessor is not that smart, but it can replace text, and is quite usable
<InPhase>
I believe that is what they call Chaos Magic, but yes.
<nobody666>
That is no more C though
<Scopeuk>
excessibve macros tend to make horrible C
<teepee>
modern c++ can do much better with their latest stuff
<nobody666>
It becomes parametric C
<teepee>
linext: I watched it anyway and I don't see any sensible reason for using blockchain there
<nobody666>
:)
<teepee>
yeah, but text based parametric, where c++ has it in the language, so the compiler can even give useful errors nowadays
<teepee>
well, in the very latest version of c++ at least :)
<nobody666>
Oh i made lambda macro with GCC in a C source, also typeless logic macros
<nobody666>
If you have like 9 layers of macros macroing macros and something goes wrong you have a problem ofc
<teepee>
linext: if you are thinking about something decentralized, maybe activitypub connection for 3dcustomizer could be more interesting :)
<Scopeuk>
nobody666 that can be done. I tend to stay away from it, if you want all the toys a language with them with make life a lot easier, if nothing else the debugger knows what's going on. C is at it's best and cleanest on a micro with no os where you are twiddling registers and fiddling with DMA channels
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<nobody666>
Scopeuk, Your problem will be that you have to find what is wrong with the macro
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<Scopeuk>
nobody666 and that would arguably by design with multiple layers of macro
<Scopeuk>
order of evaluation and include becomes very important
<nobody666>
It is straight forward, but increases compile time after some time in development
<nobody666>
Parametric C is generated at compile time...
<Scopeuk>
all pre processor is done at compile time
<Scopeuk>
but its straight string replacement so the order of evaluation is critical when stacked
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<nobody666>
Who likes M4 ?
<nobody666>
It is an advanced form of macro processor
<Friithian>
it's an ok screw
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<Friithian>
really depends what type it is, if it is torx that's fine
<nobody666>
but a screw is easier to describe in openscad
<nobody666>
some 60 deg cones, cylinders and polygons
<nobody666>
*spiral cones
<Friithian>
iirc someone has done a screw lib anyways :P
<nobody666>
now you print it if you need one
<nobody666>
and you extrude plastic spaghetti from trash plastic
<JordanBrown[m]>
J1A8481: "*cyliander(noway);" is syntactically correct. The fact that it refers to a nonexistent module and variable is not a syntax error.
<InPhase>
nobody666: A good screw is actually quite burdensome to describe. I wrote one of the threading libraries, but it was fairly involved to get the smoothness good and keep it efficient.
<Friithian>
what's the wosrt shape for the actual threads? like you have square, triangle
<nobody666>
Sure, you need the rounding at corners or those will be where stress cracks propagate
<JordanBrown[m]>
I estimate that my professional work is about 40% C, 40% JavaScript, 10% Python, and 10% other.
<JordanBrown[m]>
0% C++.
<J1A8481>
JordanBrown so do we have two parser - one checking for syntax and another to check if those exist?
<InPhase>
Friithian: If I ever redo a threading library, I will implement it with a vector profile for the teeth. I'm a better OpenSCADer than when I made my first one, and I know how to do this now.
<InPhase>
Friithian: And then I'll just insert a few default profiles for standard teeth. :)
<JordanBrown[m]>
J1A8481: The simple answer is "yes". Technically, the latter is not part of parsing.
<Friithian>
hemispherical threads :D
<nobody666>
epicycloidal threads
<InPhase>
I think with a little thought I can even do bidirectional threads with a vector profile input.
<nobody666>
yeah nice, i saw a video where a russian guy made a huge bidirectional screw on the lathe
<nobody666>
and then screwed a left and right hand nut
<J1A8481>
those left right threads are quite simple to make in scad
<InPhase>
J1A8481: Yes, but tricky to do as a single polyhedron call. :)
<InPhase>
But I think it can be done.
<J1A8481>
an epicycloidal thread is probably unprintable if not offsetted
<J1A8481>
inphase oh yes i would never try this with a single polyhedra .. you would need to write the whole intersection calculation
<InPhase>
J1A8481: Yep. Which is straightforward to write until you want to make the triangles line up perfectly, which is where it gets a little bit tricky.
<othx>
J1A8481 linked to YouTube video "First 3D printed straight one-way manual hand drill in the world" => 2 IRC mentions
<JordanBrown[m]>
J1A8481: OpenSCAD execution has roughly three phases: parsing, which turns the text into an internal representation, evaluation, where we step through the internal representation doing arithmetic and generating a CSG tree, and then either previewing or rendering, where we turn the CSG tree into either an image or a single polyhedral representation.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Theoretically it could have a phase between parsing and evaluation where we resolve all of the variable, function, and module references, but we don't have that - instead, we do the lookups during evaluation.
<JordanBrown[m]>
(Actually, $ variables have to wait until evaluation; you can't resolve them until then.)
<J1A8481>
well a correct helical gear would change the profile
<Friithian>
threads, but they're curled like two hands
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<InPhase>
J1A8481: Here's an 8-start bidirectional thread with a single polyhedron call. It's actually not too tricky to write at all, taking me about 15 minutes to type out and bug fix. But you'll perhaps see what I mean about making the triangles line up. The hard part is all the edges being imperfect. Here the features are 0.01mm in z and 1 degree in angle, which is very high resolution, but you still get
<InPhase>
Figuring out how to rerun all the triangles along those lines, that takes a bit of thought, and was the thing I spent the most time sorting out on my first thread library. When you get the triangles aligned, you need a whole lot less of them to get a smooth result.
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<J1A8481>
inphase that is compact .. would assume to be more difficult .. already looks pretty good
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<alexises>
hello, I have issue with polyhedron, My drawing generate a bunch of face that render well on preview
<alexises>
but I'm not able to merge olml polyhedron to get a physical object, so my rendering is empty despite a good preview
<J1A8481>
alexises try F12
<J1A8481>
and F5 .. is there anything pink ?
<alexises>
hum yep
<J1A8481>
those are backward faces (wrong order) .. inside out
<alexises>
WARNING: No top level geometry to render : here my issue
<alexises>
my drawing is currently only a ni,cj pf faces
<Junxter>
these two image urls are current and up to date
<JordanBrown[m]>
Second, neither text() nor textmetrics() is ready to accept its arguments in the form of a list or object.
<J1A8481>
hmm seems to be not opensource with no scad files anymore .. and commercial -- guess we need to delete this permanently from the gallery
<Junxter>
okay
<JordanBrown[m]>
We've talked a little about having what JavaScript calls spread syntax and Python calls the ** operator as applied to keyword args, but I don't think there are even private experimental versions of OpenSCAD with that feature.
<alexises>
seriously, I have spend 4 hour on this thing :D
<J1A8481>
junxter now it is opensource so what ever you do with it .. but it just didn't fit the gallery
<J1A8481>
if you would sell the software (code) some restriction would apply but not for things you design that is up to you
<Junxter>
I have custom framework for openscad, which I made open source.
<J1A8481>
alexises i spend 10 years learning how to use SCAD .. so don't worry
<JordanBrown[m]>
I don't think there even *could be* a policy against commercial orgs adopting OpenSCAD. However, it wouldn't be silly for an "OpenSCAD Gallery" to have a policy that the sources for the object shown be open, so that people can learn from them.
<Junxter>
commercial and open source isn't mutually exclusive
<Junxter>
i will make my scad code and tooling code open source
<JordanBrown[m]>
I'm not a curator of that collection, so nothing I say is authoritative.
<J1A8481>
no it isn't you can sell something and offer the design files
<JordanBrown[m]>
But it seems to me that there are three basic policies one could have for such a gallery...
<JordanBrown[m]>
1) Anything. Hey, look at the picture of the thing I made. You're on your own to figure out how I made it.
<J1A8481>
oh just recognize i read that wrong Ü
<JordanBrown[m]>
2) Source visible and use restricted. Hey, look at the picture, and look at how I did it, but don't copy and paste.
<JordanBrown[m]>
3) Source visible and use (largely) not restricted. Look at the picture, copy what I did.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Any of those three seem like reasonable policies for selection.
<J1A8481>
We just should not link to a page that starts with "buy for 500¥€$
<JordanBrown[m]>
Indeed, links are a whole different question.
<J1A8481>
junxter still an amazing project and i hope you make some money out of it
<Junxter>
it's a hobby project; will do it on kickstarter
<Junxter>
OpenSCAD has been enormously helpful
<JordanBrown[m]>
And indeed maybe there should be a specific section of the web site for "organizations that use OpenSCAD" and "products designed with OpenSCAD", at least for those orgs that are willing to disclose that information.
<Junxter>
I have a whole toolchain around OpenSCAD to manage complexity and make things workable. i.e. not slowing down after things get complicated
<J1A8481>
let us know if you have the code on a page we can link to
<JordanBrown[m]>
It may be a different thing from "look at this project".
<Junxter>
I am trying to convince small companies and manufacturing shops around to take a look at openscad
<Junxter>
my framework toolchain is opensource already
<Junxter>
on github
<J1A8481>
JordanBrown we now have these sections within the gallery so "commercial projects" should be possible
<J1A8481>
Junxter if you have a good docu we could maybe include that toolchain on the library section
<Junxter>
it focuses on assembly management, iterative meshing, compiling modules into "smart" modules that auto-assemble using transform lookups
<Junxter>
so complex designs don't slow down
<J1A8481>
seems you need to add your toolchain .. there is only 5 lines scad code
<linext>
i'm going to do a presentation tomorrow on openscad wasm / 3dcustomizer.net
<linext>
it's for a makerspace
<alexises>
J1A8481:I will definitively rewrite it, it's just not readable for me :D and It's not exactly what I would like, but it's a good stating point :)
<Junxter>
it's a set of php file, run from command line
<teepee>
Junxter: links are updated, now lets see if the automation works
<Junxter>
cscad, lscad, sscad
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<Junxter>
the lib dict.scad is just a lookup function, to make "associative array" in openscad
<teepee>
there's no policy against commercial use in general. and the license certainly allows commercial use
<Junxter>
teepee, okay got it
<teepee>
for some stuff where I need to manage things manually I'm restricting to open source, like the library list on the main page
<teepee>
but that's because it's *my personal time* I'm spending there, not a general policy
<teepee>
if you can make some bucks with your work using openscad, that's cool and a nice example in the gallery
<J1A8481>
alexises you can also use that function to generate the polyhedron points without using hull .. i just want to show how and was lazy and wouldn't generate faces
<Junxter>
teepee, okay got it
<teepee>
now I need to find the button to make the website actually update :)
<JordanBrown[m]>
But by way of contrast, POV-Ray's gallery https://hof.povray.org/ has some awesome pictures... and absolutely nothing that helps you to learn how to make awesome pictures like that.
<JordanBrown[m]>
Must pretend to work now.
<Junxter>
adding source code with documentation is indeed very helpful
<teepee>
aha, there we go!
<teepee>
very cool beetle sitting in the gallery \o/
<Junxter>
teepee, thanks
<teepee>
your github repo shows the old link :)
<Junxter>
that original image was from 2 years ago.. since then i added bunch of functions, gear shift, clutch, mechanical engine sound, smoke exhaust, and brakes
<Junxter>
yeah. the github tooling is more or less the same. i rely on it to make designs with lots of parts and subassemblies
<Junxter>
parts are machined. so OpenSCAD is very helpful for CNC
<Junxter>
using openscad animation together with shotcut to make short film clips: