teepee changed the topic of #openscad to: OpenSCAD - The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller | This channel is logged! | Website: http://www.openscad.org/ | FAQ: https://goo.gl/pcT7y3 | Request features / report bugs: https://goo.gl/lj0JRI | Tutorial: https://bit.ly/37P6z0B | Books: https://bit.ly/3xlLcQq | FOSDEM 2020: https://bit.ly/35xZGy6 | Logs: https://bit.ly/32MfbH5
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<JordanBrown[m]> peeps[zen]: Indeed, the automaton cannot (yet!) read the documentation. But there could be markup that a human could apply that says "it's OK to access D's stuff through B" or "don't use D directly".
<peeps[zen]> yeah but that also assumes every library would agree on an annotation style, for this very niche tool
<peeps[zen]> JordanBrown[m]: all you need to do is convince CGAL, Eigen, and Boost to fill their headers with that.
<peeps[zen]> hmm, maybe I should mark all the includes in our cgal.h / cgalutils.h with that...
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<WenxuanZhao[m]> I'd like to make a cube-human.i had made a head.i hope the tutorial can help me to do the next step
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<WenxuanZhao[m]> It is difficult for me to make an arm
<WenxuanZhao[m]> If you're making your first model what would you like to make?
<InPhase> WenxuanZhao[m]: 23.scad has a Santa with two arms.
<InPhase> WenxuanZhao[m]: Basically you can do anything that gets things into a shape you're comfortable with. :)
<InPhase> WenxuanZhao[m]: Whoops, forgot the link. 23.scad here: https://openscad.org/advent-calendar-2019/
<InPhase> WenxuanZhao[m]: Basically all I did was smash some deformed spheres and an elongated rounded disc together, and trusted the eyes to fill in the blanks.
<InPhase> Sort of like his whiskers and eyebrows are rounded disks embedded into his face. Cheap hack and effective.
<InPhase> His beard is a smashed sphere that extends into his brain stem, but nobody's looking in there. :)
<JordanBrown[m]> peeps[zen]: Didn't somebody mention something about a configuration file for the tool that let you control stuff like this?
<peeps[zen]> yes, there are also .imp mapping files
<peeps[zen]> i've been editing some for openscad also
<peeps[zen]> its a pain to figure out everything for CGAL, but I
<peeps[zen]> I have gotten it to build now, though it still requires a bit of manual fixing after applying the changes
<JordanBrown[m]> Am I doing the TZ math wrong, or is it 0320 there?
<InPhase> Backwards.
<JordanBrown[m]> You're 22:20, I know. But I thought peeps[zen] was in Germany at UTC+1.
<InPhase> Or, wait. Not backward. Wrong continent.
<JordanBrown[m]> Where is peeps[zen] ?
<peeps[zen]> Texas
<JordanBrown[m]> peeps[zen] == peepsalot ?
<peeps[zen]> its 9:22 Central time
<InPhase> But with more zen.
<peeps[zen]> yes
<JordanBrown[m]> That's a lot more reasonable.
<peeps[zen]> it is an alt nick for when my client auto reconnects
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<JordanBrown[m]> peepsalot == Hans L, right?
<peepsalot> yeah
<JordanBrown[m]> Updating my scorecard, er spreadsheet of OpenSCAD people. Can't tell the players without a scorecard.
<peepsalot> very german name, born Texan though.
<JordanBrown[m]> As it happens, I'm half Texan.
<JordanBrown[m]> Hence why I made the wrong assumption. Also assumed you were part of the cluster of Germans who work on OpenSCAD.
<JordanBrown[m]> Where in TX?
<peepsalot> Austin
<peepsalot> now quit doxxing me :P
<JordanBrown[m]> My in-laws retired to Kerrville. My mother was born in San Antonio, grew up in Sherman.
<JordanBrown[m]> OK, sure, just trying to get to know people...
<JordanBrown[m]> Anyhow, yes, that .imp file seems like the right thing... which you have already figured out, I'm sure.
<InPhase> peepsalot: Let's see... And your social security number is... 4 and then a 4, or a 5, or a 6, right?
<InPhase> JordanBrown[m]: Make sure to add that to your spreadsheet. ;)
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<joseph_> teepee: I saw your approval of my GSoC project. Thank you! I'm looking forward to discussing next steps and their suggested order. Things like resource cleanup, adding new unit tests, and the shader selection lifetime questions that InPhase brought up earlier. Some weeks are significantly busier than others, so I'll try to fit in blocks of work on the occasions that I have enough free time. A couple additional notes:
<joseph_> 1) It's becoming clearer that IRC communication will be more natural if the client is always open, so the scrollback can be passively checked more frequently. I'll try this, but it will take some getting used to. I'll look into autostart/autologin for the client because unfortunately I need to reboot my laptop once every day or two for some MS Office exclusive features.
<joseph_> 2) My semester is full of coursework, largely due to an interesting but very challenging quantum computing class. Combined with the previous note, this means the best way for me to see message(s) is still to mention me each time (the bouncer will send a push notification to my phone, as long as Google Cloud isn't down and Libera stays connected).
<JordanBrown[m]> joseph_ Element / Matrix will backfill in the stuff that happened while you were away.
<JordanBrown[m]> It also sometimes has multi-minute time warps that you have to watch out for, so alas it is not a perfect solution.
<joseph_> JordanBrown[m]: Thank you for the suggestion. I can investigate it a bit tomorrow, although I have been using the ZNC backlog module which lets me query and replay a specified number of previous messages. It's more of a habit challenge than a technical one, but if the replay was to happen automatically then it would indeed be easier on my end
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<peepsalot> InPhase: well, it looks like the IWYU changes save maybe 8s of ~12m50s
<peepsalot> InPhase: i didn't expect it to have much effect anyways. if it has any, it would be for recompiling after edits like JordanBrown[m] was focusing on
<JordanBrown[m]> Yes, agreed. After all, we're building the same set of files. The most it might do is not include some header files that aren't used.
<InPhase> peepsalot: I guess that's a harder concept to come up with a clear test for.
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<peepsalot> oh yeah... I forgot to run the qt mapping file that is distributed with the program
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<peepsalot> that makes it take like 100x longer though, from a bug in v.17, (fixed in v.18) https://github.com/include-what-you-use/include-what-you-use/issues/981
<peepsalot> without it, it changes all Qt includes from e.g. <QStatusBar> to <qstatusbar.h>
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<peepsalot> i don't think I want to submit it as a PR, but if anyone is curious what the changes look like, i think this will show:
<peepsalot> in hindsight, I'm not sure why I spent 2 days getting a result (that compiles on my pc) for this
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<JordanBrown_> Matrix has fallen into a time warp again.
<JordanBrown_> Well... maybe. "in hindsight" hasn't made it over to my Matrix client, but that time warp comment made it over immediately. Sigh.
<JordanBrown_> I'm not sure about the value either, but I have to say that that kind of thing gives me warm fuzzy feelings. Not exactly sure why, but it's along the lines of making things ... tidier.
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<peepsalot> JordanBrown_: yeah, its just that in this case it mostly made a mess of things, after a lot of effort to rein it in.
<JordanBrown[m]> To certain extent it depends on what you consider "tidy". There's an argument that #include <everything.h> is very tidy, since that's all you need. OTOH, separate #includes for each thing are tidy in a different way.
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<JordanBrown[m]> And keeping incremental-build times down certainly has value for developers, albeit not for users.
<peepsalot> JordanBrown[m]: I'm talking specifically about trying to get IWYU running and applying its changes. The other changes, which came from clangd and you, were already merged and I have no regrets on that.
<JordanBrown[m]> You don't think this pass contributed improvements of that sort?
<peepsalot> I wouldn't want these changes merged without a lot more fixing up.
<peepsalot> all the Qt includes are weird now. it included C style std headers instead of C++: <stddef.h> vs <cstddef>
<peepsalot> a lot of the CGAL includes still feel questionable if there's any reason to go into that detail
<JordanBrown[m]> Concur that it is probably not necessary to go into detail on CGAL includes. Probably not even desirable.
<peepsalot> after having to fix so many compile errors, it feels like it makes the project more brittle overall
<JordanBrown[m]> Hmm. I do not yet understand the practical difference between C style and C++ style includes, so I don't really have an opinion there, other than that I would say that for Qt components whatever they document is by definition the preferred variation.
<peepsalot> the C headers are more of a code style preference. the C++ headers basically include the same things in the end, afaik
<peepsalot> our code uses things like "size_t" and "nullptr", which technically should be "std::size_t" and "std::nullptr", but rarely do people bother with the std:: prefixes because defacto standard is that you can get away with it
<peepsalot> so IWYU devs argue that without the std::, then you are actually using the C version of those defines
<JordanBrown[m]> Didn't I see a way somewhere to explicitly import something from std:: into the global namespace?
<peepsalot> yeah. "using std::nullptr_t;"
<JordanBrown[m]> Perhaps doing that makes everybody happy?
<peepsalot> we do that in our "memory.h" file, but its not included everywhere
<JordanBrown[m]> Strictly, by IWYU, you should do it in every file that uses nullptr, right?
<peepsalot> er, that's just the type nullptr_t , i guess we don't have the value "std::nullptr" in there
<peepsalot> yeah, supposedly if those were all correct then I guess it would suggest to use the C++ headers
<JordanBrown[m]> Anyhow, net, it seems like the kind of project that I might do to satisfy my OCD, but I don't know that I could claim that it was truly valuable. Except, of course, for the next time that I touch some random Foo.h and the world rebuilds, and then I would be unhappy with myself if I hadn't done the project.
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<Scopeuk> nullptr is a c++ keyword isn't it? https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/nullptr it doesn't need to sit in a namespace (since c++ 11 )
<Scopeuk> nullpointer_t ignore me, yes that is in std
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<Guest18> hi, i have problems to get OpenScad run on my MacBook. I tried with brew and it was 'successful' but when try opening the app in my app folder it said "OpenScad cannot be opened as ... cannot be verified". any ideas? I need this app for my studies in maths.
<Guest18> or are there any good alternatives for Mac?? thank you
<Friithian> oh lovely macos security features, right click the application and click open
<Friithian> that should give you the option to open anyways
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<teepee> Guest18: I think the best option at this point is the development snapshot, this is updated for at least reasonable support for newer macOS versions
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<teepee> otherwise, the not verified, you have to allow the application to run specifically. at this point it's not signed and blessed by the gods at apple
<Friithian> right clicking and opening bypasses it, for some rason
<teepee> unfortunately those options tend to be in various state of brokenness, but my macbook is now too obsolate to run, so I can't test anymore
<Guest18> the snapshot thing has worked! great thing! thanks a lot!!
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<teepee> oof :)
<Friithian> we- oh
<teepee> I would have another suggestion... ;-)
<teepee> we may hear about it eventually
<teepee> hmm, strange, just the dev snapshot should not have made a difference to security settings, so like I said, various levels of just kaputt
<Scopeuk> maybe it didn't so much make a difference of drove some popup again whilst the user was expecting to see it so they answered better
<Friithian> I'm still betting on right click → open would work
<Friithian> macos is a weirdo
<teepee> hmm, 4,5h test print?
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<Scopeuk> ?
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<teepee> I wonder if printing the whole box just for testing is a good idea
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<teepee> preparing christmas presents :)
<Scopeuk> it's still march right?
<Scopeuk> where do the years go
<teepee> yes, somewhere it's always march
<teepee> custom led strip electronics based on esp32, simple but very nice
<Bram[m]> This is normal on MacOS. Any app you download outside appstore will refuse to run until right-click->open->you sure->yes. After that its fine.
<teepee> this time with button control + small oled, the first one got exactly one button and no display, plenty enough as present to parent who is not interested in fancy stuff
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<teepee> also esphome is crazy cool for creating a firmware with OTA support
<Scopeuk> did a project with a friend turning a bunch of https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/atom-matrix-esp32-development-kit?variant=31880178532435 into "tally lights" for the camera in his churches live streaming setup. there is a host application that reads the state of an atem mini and obs and does the logic to work out camera in use or camera being
<Scopeuk> previewed for use and set a red orange or green light
<Scopeuk> have bunch of table tennis balls with holes cut in the bottom that clip over the top to make defusers/glowing orbs
<Scopeuk> bit of a waste of programable led's but they are cheap and fairly solidly made
<teepee> nice, similar to the bitluni (?) led wall
<teepee> I love those 10 meter 3-copper-wire led strings
<teepee> desolder the crappy usb controller, toss it into the bin, add wemos d1 mini esp32, write yaml file, ready is the much better deko
<teepee> does not even need any programming when just going with the default effect, although my 3 lines custom effect is not that complicated either
<teepee> alternative, cut to 60 leds and make a huge clock :)
<Scopeuk> I always keep a look out for led lighting that looks like it might be individually controllable, have yet to stumble across any going cheap
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<Friithian> wl12swhatever
<peepsalot> Scopeuk: try keyword "addressable" LED
<Friithian> ws28111 that's what it was
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<teepee> all of the 3 wire I've bought so far (3 different versions) are all ws2811 style leds
<teepee> just watch out for those https://smile.amazon.de/gp/product/B09BTRNRGX/ which are 2 wire and just fixed color
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<Scopeuk> peepsalot I was mostly keeping track of it when looking in shops and what have you (clearance Christmas lights that sort of thing) I have some ws2812 tape
<teepee> I've not seen the ideal combination: addressable rgbww with 4 wire (vcc, gnd, data, clock)
<Scopeuk> yeh the apa leds are normally jsut rgb that I've seen
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<teepee> and the 4 wire WS2815 is not data/clock but data/backup-data
<Scopeuk> ok the 109's are rgbw http://neon-world.com/en/product_detail.php?cid=59&id=167 but I guess that is white
<Scopeuk> yeh the apa series ones are spi (sure classic shift register
<Scopeuk> or atleast some of them are
<Scopeuk> looks like even they have gone to silly timing combined clock/data
<Scopeuk> yeh the 102's are the spi/clasic shift register design
<Scopeuk> only rgb though
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<linext_> i updated the editor on 3dcustomizer.net/create/customization
<linext_> should be less buggy, and no memory leaks
<linext_> next i want to block rendering attempts if the code is comments only
<linext_> it's valid, but cannot return an STL, so sort-of invalid
<linext_> so if .ast is a blank document, then don't try to render STL
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<linext_> also, 3dcustomizer.net works on OSes not supported by OpenSCAD
<linext_> such as Android
<linext_> not sure about the Chromebook
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<peepsalot> JordanBrown[m]: I am now thinking about if it would be worth splitting Expression.h / Expression.cc into separate units for each subclass. and maybe a few other cases like Value, node
<peepsalot> primitives
<JordanBrown[m]> Maybe. It would certainly decrease incremental build times when you're only messing with one of the subclasses and most dependents only care about the superclass.
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<gbruno> [github] t-paul closed issue #4388 (Feature request: Support JPEG XL (.jxl) for exports) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4388
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<linext_> is there some way to detect when the OpenSCAD file will not produce an STL file?
<linext_> however, there is code
<linext_> ok, i see it's: Current top level object is empty.
<linext_> when trying to output an STL
<linext_> also, does OpenSCAD have support for "Color in binary STL" ?
<JordanBrown[m]> There is no standard way to represent color in STL. (Well, other than having multiple STL files, of course.)
<linext_> hmm...
<linext_> it looks to me that a binary STL non-empty file exists
<linext_> 80 ascii chars + 4 bytes for size
<linext_> so in Uint8 format, 80 "00"'s for the comment + 4 "00"'s for size
<linext_> or 168 zeros
<linext_> lol
<linext_> actually worked
<linext_> maybe that's what openscad should output when there's no to level geometry
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