01:30 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> Hello everybody, Im reading "ocaml from the very beggining" and also trying to read this book, but I found to mathematical.. so my question is this. Did you know a mathematics book that gives the math maturity to digest better the book of the screens, thanks in advanced 😄 or other programming/math book as this but more math easy maybeXD

01:30 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/436568060288172044/1308967770506919966/Nov21-022547.png?ex=673fdebb&is=673e8d3b&hm=acda83dd606652ea2cfbce72795cfa4dfed3a5038d1efa9c43f627018ae90ea7&

01:30 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/436568060288172044/1308967770964365363/Nov21-022556.png?ex=673fdebc&is=673e8d3c&hm=87f4222d251c4c4daec207390d217722048172c49d76647f6f656e8b3719e832&

01:46 <discocaml> <darrenldl> if you're focusing on picking up ocaml, then i think https://cs3110.github.io/textbook/cover.html is a nice choice

01:49 <discocaml> <darrenldl> ah you are already using ocaml from the beginning, nvm

02:00 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> yees I didnt see that book yet, but I think they said something about OOP course take it before that course in cornell school, but I never touch OOP

02:01 <dmoerner> i think that book does enough to teach the oop comparisons it makes. worst case, you can skim them or learn as you go

02:14 <discocaml> <darrenldl> @oijolisp_11693 so to clarify, your upcoming goal is to be able to digest the book shown by your screenshots?

02:14 <discocaml> <darrenldl> im just confused where oop fits into the picture

02:16 <dmoerner> i think the point is that that book is for a second semester course after already learning java. so at several points, especially in the discussion of modules and signatures, it draws many comparisons with java. but i don't know java well and found it perfectly clear

02:17 <discocaml> <darrenldl> ah gotcha, cheers

02:24 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> yees I never use java or a programming language with OPP.. So I will give a try, thankss for the encourage 😄

02:26 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> Yees will be cool, because that book of the screens and the "ocaml from the very beggining" are the most begginer ocaml books that I found, but they take a very different approach and I found interesting the mathematical approach of the book in the screens but I dont comprenhend very much all the math stuff

02:30 <discocaml> <darrenldl> my advice is both maths and programming are very hands on, so just start playing around with code, see what compiler says, what output you get

02:30 <discocaml> <darrenldl>

02:30 <discocaml> <darrenldl> after some experience with the code, you will have much less of a mental hurdle to reading the mathematical aspects of it

02:30 <discocaml> <darrenldl>

02:30 <discocaml> <darrenldl> if the book starts off with very mathematical definitions from the get go, then its probably for ocaml beginners, but not beginners of functional programming

02:31 <discocaml> <darrenldl> in my experience, students who try to just sit and read often get stuck much longer than students who just start throwing code into IDE and see what sticks

02:34 <discocaml> <darrenldl> and another advice that i think teachers unfortunately need to give these days: if you want to learn, dont use gpt/llm

02:34 <discocaml> <darrenldl>

02:34 <discocaml> <darrenldl> students who claim they are learning with "assistance" of gpt/llm often learned nothing, but these students also didnt care to learn to begin with to be fair

02:34 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> Ready for the next chapter 😄

02:34 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/436568060288172044/1308983770300416040/Nov21-022451.png?ex=673feda2&is=673e9c22&hm=2c738513941baed96c9d5bc0abe630c8bb65685d7495a7d77094a1239f9651c8&

02:36 <discocaml> <darrenldl> what about the tail recursive versions : v

02:37 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> got it, make sense that of not for functional programming.. Thank you for the advice.. and another question. I dont like very much the perl/bash syntax.. I was thinking to use nim or ocaml for this purpose, what do you think if I start playing with ocaml making little scripts to, could be a good language for this purpose too?

02:37 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> that screen was taken before that :v

02:39 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> got it, make sense that of not for functional programming.. Thank you for the advice.. and another question. I dont like very much the perl/bash syntax.. I was thinking to use nim or ocaml for this purpose, what do you think if I start playing with ocaml making little scripts too, could be a good language for this purpose too?

02:42 <discocaml> <darrenldl> re using ocaml as scripting: well it's a tradeoff - the initial development cost of compiled language is higher than scripting language (i cannot just edit a line and run again, compiled language generally not catered to "running a single file"), but long term performance and stability generally is better than scripting language

02:43 <discocaml> <darrenldl> my advice is when it becomes a cli utility where it's reaching into the territory where you need 100 lines of bash to do it, then yeah i'd start making it a proper program in nim or ocaml or whatever

02:45 <discocaml> <darrenldl> re capability: it is definitely fine to use ocaml for accomplishing what you'd otherwise do with bash, just to varying degree of ergonomics (i wrote a linux installer in ocaml once with fairly complex encryption setup and customisability, so it's definitely viable)

02:51 <discocaml> <darrenldl> ah hm, i think i'm too tired to read coherently: sorry i think i misunderstood what you wrote - yeah i think starting a small cli utility is a good learning project, that has been my go to option when learning new programming languages. it keeps you motivated and allow you to focus more on the part of CS that is likely closer to what you want to experiment with (otherwise you wouldn't be putting those features into your cli utility to begin

03:16 <discocaml> <oijolisp_11693> Thank youu very much to take the time for answer :D, and sorry for my bad english :v .. So I will start writting scripts too

03:16 <dh`> my recommendation would be: if what you're trying to do is a shell script thing, trying to do it with anything other than a shell will be horribly painful

03:17 <dh`> bash is, however, not the first shell you should reach for, whatever the linux world seems to think

03:17 <dh`> meanwhile, perl no longer has any domain where it's a reasonable choice, so by all means use something else

05:55 <discocaml> <darrenldl> dh`: what shell do you use?

10:13 <discocaml> <alyxshang> Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Rust compiler written in OCaml at first?

10:19 <discocaml> <._null._> Yes it was

10:20 <discocaml> <dinosaure> OCaml is a good language if you want to write an interpreter/compiler really fast 🙂

12:13 <discocaml> <azur1s> yes

12:13 <discocaml> <azur1s> agree!!

12:16 <discocaml> <deepspacejohn> Within dune projects, at least, it’s very easy to write “scripts” that you run with `dune exec`. I do that a lot to make helpers for tests or generating files etc.

12:16 <discocaml> <azur1s> although i miss `todo!()` 😅

12:16 <discocaml> <azur1s> i just do `failwith __LOC__` for now

12:24 <adrien> If I create first-class modules in a loop and use them for functors (first-class modules too), is everything going to be collected as expected?

12:26 <octachron> At runtime, modules and functors are records and functions

13:54 <discocaml> <._null._> People usually use `assert false`, since it also reports location information

14:00 <discocaml> <azur1s> oh, thats nice

14:01 <discocaml> <azur1s> sometimes i do `failwith __LOC__ ^ " " ^ ...` in match cases when im lazy to implement something for that cases for now

14:01 <discocaml> <azur1s> not sure if asserting would let me add some "reason" into it

14:04 <discocaml> <._null._> Ok, assert false is not really for todos but more for impossible cases; in fact I'd use failwith "todo" for a todo, assuming it won't stay so long that I forget about it

14:04 <discocaml> <azur1s> ohh

14:05 <discocaml> <azur1s> i actually have unreachable cases as `failwith "unreachable"`

14:05 <discocaml> <azur1s> good to know that, thanks

14:11 <discocaml> <barconstruction> Is __LOC__ a ppx thing

14:11 <discocaml> <._null._> No, it's compiler magic

14:12 <discocaml> <._null._> (You could see it as a builtin ppx I guess)

14:12 <discocaml> <azur1s> yeah

14:13 <discocaml> <azur1s> so i know which lines i was too lazy to deal with 😅

14:13 <discocaml> <otini_> yeah it’s substituted directly by the lexer

15:02 <discocaml> <deepspacejohn> See https://ocaml.org/manual/5.2/api/Stdlib.html#1_Debugging

15:22 <discocaml> <barconstruction> I have never seen this page come up on Google when I searched "OCaml debugging". I would expect search engines to do a better job but I guess it's a cycle of more trafficked pages being promoted more heavily in the results.

16:16 <adrien> octachron: thanks! now I need to look elsewhere to find my issue (which takes hours to be visible of course)

16:16 <adrien> :D