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<sicelo> KREYREN: easiest way would be to partition the internal storage, then have an u-boot config that will point to that. you probably don't want to remove Maemo
<sicelo> anyway, we generally prefer SD cards since they're (likely to be) much faster than the emmc.
<freemangordon> Wizzup: ok, it is not only mafw
<freemangordon> actually paplay does not work right after reboot here
<freemangordon> [pulseaudio] shm.c: mmap() failed: Cannot allocate memory
<freemangordon> seems we hit some shmem limit
<freemangordon> this is from paplay
<freemangordon> pulseaudio has 45 shmem maps and that seems to be the limit
<freemangordon> ok, so 45*64MB = 2880MB, ~3GB, which is basically the max 32 bit address space, no?
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<freemangordon> so, does anyone know what would be the issue if we reduce shm-size-bytes to 8MB or something?
<freemangordon> heh, on fremanlte shm is disabled :D
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<sicelo> thanks Wizzup (@ merging)
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<Wizzup> freemangordon: interesting @ shm...
<Wizzup> Please note that data transfer via shared memory segments is always disabled when PulseAudio is running with --system enabled (see above).
<Wizzup> fremantle was running in system so yeah
<Wizzup> freemangordon: but why do we hit this limit
<Wizzup> ah, I see...
<freemangordon> because we are 32 bits :)
<freemangordon> Wizzup: not only fremantle is running with --system, shm is also disabled in client.conf
<freemangordon> on fremantle that is, check it
<Wizzup> but system disabled shm
<Wizzup> disables
<Wizzup> but yeah we can control client.conf changes
<Wizzup> want me to try?
<freemangordon> I've already disabled shm here and everything looks fine so far
<freemangordon> but, we have the option to not allocate 64MB VM space per client
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<uvos__> why would it be holding so mutch shm anyhow
<freemangordon> it does not
<freemangordon> it just allocates the space
<uvos__> would not a couple of meg per client be enough
<uvos__> ok
<freemangordon> I don;t know, was about to ask :)
<uvos__> but why dose it allocate all the this space
<freemangordon> this is the default
<uvos__> sure i get that but i dont understand under which circumstances this would be benefital
<uvos__> i gues we need to ask pa devs
<freemangordon> I was not able to find anything useful in inet
<uvos__> we dont really want to disable shm ofc
<uvos__> since it saves cpu time over using the socket
<freemangordon> shm-size-bytes = 0 # setting this 0 will use the system-default, usually 64 MiB
<uvos__> iirc enableing shm (via loss of system) was what a factor that made call audio tollerable on n900
<uvos__> freemangordon: ok yeah we can just make it smaller thne
<freemangordon> yeah, but how much?
<uvos__> i gues we mesure how mutch it uses
<freemangordon> there is absolutely no explanation what this is used for
<freemangordon> no, as it deletes /dev/shm files
<freemangordon> so we don't know the real size
<uvos__> iiuc its used to transfer samples
<freemangordon> and I am not sure what to check in /proc/$pid
<uvos__> ok ill see if i can figure it out
<freemangordon> but yeah, I guess we can make it 1MB and see if it is ok
<uvos__> otherwise lets ask #pulseaudio on matrix
<freemangordon> do I need account fo that?
<freemangordon> *for
<freemangordon> "Zero-copy mode"
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<uvos__> freemangordon: yes at account
<uvos__> but i can do it
<freemangordon> please do
<uvos__> freemangordon: hmm maybe its pas fault at all
<freemangordon> wtym? it is PAs fault
<uvos__> depends on for what reason shm regions are allocated
<uvos__> a misbehaveing client mit be creating the problem by transfering a tonne of small buffers?
<freemangordon> no matter, on 32bits we have 3GB address space per process
<freemangordon> no, no, it allocates ^$MB address space, not memory
<freemangordon> *64MB
<uvos__> sure but i think pa mapps client space on thair request
<freemangordon> does not matter
<freemangordon> if it is mapped or not, as long as it is allocated
<uvos__> ok not sure why not but ok
<freemangordon> so, for every new client PA allocates 64MB of virtual address space
<Wizzup> I think the point is that there's a limit to how much more can be allocated virtually
<freemangordon> yes
<uvos__> yeah but dose pa allocate vm space because it wants to or because a client is requesting for it to happen
<uvos__> ok
<freemangordon> and that limit for 32 bit linux is 3GB
<freemangordon> PA allocates no matter what client does
<uvos__> ok
<freemangordon> it is sevrer setting
<freemangordon> *server
<freemangordon> see pa_mempool_new()
<uvos__> i gues an application might be creating a tonne of pa connections, ie being lots of clients
<uvos__> but other than that ok
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<uvos__> if its 64MiB per client and its exausting 3GiB space then thats over 40 clients
<uvos__> which seams excessive
<freemangordon> yes, that's what happens it seems
<freemangordon> we have 45 pools
<freemangordon> so, more that one connection per client
<freemangordon> but we have about 20 something clients
<freemangordon> how is that excessive?
<uvos__> 40 clients seams excessive
<uvos__> 20 is maybe less so
<uvos__> still seams high for the amount of stuff we have running
<freemangordon> clients are ~20, but they have more than one connection
<uvos__> 20 clients that want to play audio?
<uvos__> who are these
<freemangordon> mhm
<freemangordon> sphone, mafw, xinput-sounds, accounts, notifications, etc,etc
<freemangordon> do pa-info and you will see them
<freemangordon> but yes, we have them
<Wizzup> pacmd
<Wizzup> list-clients
<Wizzup> all of the ones I see now are valid ones
<Wizzup> but yeah like fmg just said
<freemangordon> still, 20 clients should not lead to resource exhaust
<Wizzup> in any case we clearly need to allow more clients than 20/40
<Wizzup> yeah
<uvos__> i only have 11
<uvos__> but ok
<freemangordon> well, you don;t run leste then
<Wizzup> systemd-logind also has one open :D
<Wizzup> two actually
<freemangordon> mhm
<freemangordon> and it opens new one for each session IIUC
<freemangordon> so every ssh session has new PA connection
<Wizzup> lol
<Wizzup> well this might be less of an issue eventually with pipewire
<freemangordon> don;t quote me on that one though
<Wizzup> so we can decrease shm or disable it I guess
<freemangordon> decrese
<freemangordon> so, with 64MB we have 1024 'slots', whatever it is
<freemangordon> with 8MB segment size we will have 128 slots
<freemangordon> and that will allow ~380 clients
<freemangordon> maybe we can do 16MB, dunno, lets see what uvos__ can get from PA devs
<Wizzup> seems easy enough to try to change client.conf and see
<freemangordon> there is client.conf.d :)
<Wizzup> yeah that too, but I mean for us now
<freemangordon> yeah, I'll make it 16, you can make it 32
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<Wizzup> no 8?
<freemangordon> no idea
<Wizzup> so you want this:
<Wizzup> shm-size-bytes = 32768 # setting this 0 will use the system-default, usually 64 MiB
<freemangordon> *bytes*
<Wizzup> oh
<Wizzup> 4096 then
<freemangordon> 32*1024*1024
<Wizzup> oh sorry
<Wizzup> waking up still :)
<freemangordon> lemme see if it parses MB
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<Wizzup> shm-size-bytes= Sets the shared memory segment size for clients, in bytes. If left unspecified or is set to 0 it will default to some system-specific default, usually 64 MiB. Please note that usually there is no need to change this value, unless you are running an OS kernel that does not do memory overcommit.
<Wizzup> maybe the last part there is relevant
<freemangordon> maybe
<freemangordon> perhaps that our issue
<freemangordon> lemme check
<freemangordon> overcommit_memory is 0
<freemangordon> but, I still think we cannot overcommit more than address space
<freemangordon> Wizzup: do you know if we have something like PAE on arm?
<Wizzup> it does exist yes
<freemangordon> maybe it is disabled in our kernel
<freemangordon> Features: half thumb fastmult vfp edsp thumbee neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
<freemangordon> no lpae here
<Wizzup> I don't think it works like that on arm
<Wizzup> maybe
<freemangordon> I think it we have to enable huge pages
<Wizzup> LPAE is optional in the v7-A architecture and is presently supported by the Cortex-A7, Cortex-A12, and Cortex-A15 processors
<freemangordon> and then we'll ahve more than 4G address space per process
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<uvos__> if lpae is like x86 pae then no
<uvos__> that extends physical address space only, virtual memory space is still 32bit
<uvos__> ie you can have more than 4GiB allocated on physical ram, but the mmu can only map 4GiB at a time
<freemangordon> hmm, yeah, right, address space is still 4GB
<uvos__> anyhting else would make no sense anyhow, the abi would have to change to account for bigger pointers
<freemangordon> yeah, agree
<freemangordon> ok, I am going to decrease segment size to 16MB, Wizzup to 32MB, if you want you can make yours 8MB
<freemangordon> to see what will work
<uvos__> ok
<uvos__> where is the config file exactly?
<uvos__> found it
<uvos__> ok done
<freemangordon> /etc/pulse/client.conf.d
<uvos__> 8388608
<freemangordon> mhm
<freemangordon> hmm, client.conf.d seems to be ignored
<Wizzup> freemangordon: I put it in client.conf, but ou want us to start a call then, and then try omp?
<freemangordon> paplay does the job too
<freemangordon> cat maps | grep memfd | wc -l
<freemangordon> in /proc/$pid_of_pa
<freemangordon> better restart first, so all clients to connect
<freemangordon> Wizzup: please verify that setting took effect, in /proc/$pa/smaps
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<freemangordon> as here it seems to be ignored
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<freemangordon> Wizzup: no ide why, but that setting is ignore
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<freemangordon> Wizzup: uvos__: the change must be made in daemon.conf, not in client.conf
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<freemangordon> oh, ok
<freemangordon> *both* daemon.conf and client.conf have to have shm-size-bytes, otherwise one side keeps 64MB
<Wizzup> ah...
<Wizzup> will do in a bit! on a call atm
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<Wizzup> freemangordon: btw did you push anything for the headset? or forgot the status
<KREYREN> sicelo, i kinda need a solution that lets me plug a cable and flash the thing ideally tbh it seems that the maemo-flasher works that way though?
<freemangordon> Wizzup: no
<freemangordon> will try to do it after I am back
<freemangordon> btw, I still ahve issues with reboot/poweroff
<Wizzup> yeah I do have it now (@reboot)
<freemangordon> Wizzup: also, it would be good to push some stuff to -stable, if you have time
<freemangordon> for wure tracker/mafw
<freemangordon> *sure
<freemangordon> I can do as well, if you give me the diff script
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<Wizzup> freemangordon: shall we do that a bit later @ devel?
<Wizzup> maybe when you're back?
<freemangordon> ok
<KREYREN> sicelo, for context nixos is heavily focused on reproducibility so ideally i need a way to flash the firmware and the internal storage in one go prior to system boot
<Wizzup> KREYREN: can you dd to the sd card?
<Wizzup> or, how does this impact rperoducability?
<KREYREN> Wizzup, I can, but i want to be able to flash the internal storage as well for e.g. setup where the OS runs there and sdcard is used for swappable things
* KREYREN wants to use the device for gaming
<KREYREN> The idea is kinda to get a bunch of very cheap sdcards and then place playstation and j2me games on them to swap them like it's nintendo ds with prints alike https://www.datart.cz/pametova-karta-sandisk-micro-sdxc-128gb-uhs-i-u3-v30-pro-nintendo-switch-100r-90w-sdsqxao-128g-gnczn.html tbh
<Wizzup> you can do this either using an os from the microsd card or if you prepare it correctly, using 0xffff, but I don't know how
<KREYREN> 0xffff can write to the internal storage?
<freemangordon> yes
<KREYREN> oh cool thanks
<freemangordon> (IIRC)
<freemangordon> KREYREN: see https://code.tools/man/1/0xFFFF/ , 'supported image types'
<freemangordon> 'mmc'
<KREYREN> perfect, i can define a nixos-generator for this
<freemangordon> but, don't ask me how to create FIASCO image :)
<KREYREN> is that what pali uboot uses to flash the uboot via 0xffff?
<freemangordon> I don't think so as it is executed on device
<freemangordon> and there we have flasher, iirc
<freemangordon> unfortunately Pali did a rage-quit on everything FOSS a while ago, so we can't ask him :(
<KREYREN> sad
<KREYREN> is the uboot unmaintained for the device then?
<freemangordon> yeah. still, FIASCO image format is well known, but not by me
<KREYREN> what's fiasco
<freemangordon> they dropped n900 a while ago
<freemangordon> "0xFFFF is the Open Free Fiasco Firmware Flasher for Maemo devices. It supports generating and unpacking FIASCO images."
<KREYREN> oh
<KREYREN> i see
<KREYREN> why did they ragequit
<Wizzup> disagreements with uboot maintainers
<KREYREN> i see
<KREYREN> so the uboot compat for the device is up for grabs? I am currently working on maintaining that for teres-i
<freemangordon> I think they dropped n900
<freemangordon> they = upstream
<KREYREN> last week relevant update
<freemangordon> hmm
<freemangordon> no idea then
<freemangordon> but yeah, nothing stops you from asking
<KREYREN> Hmm seems that the uboot support is implemented and they are merging linux kernel development on top of it
<freemangordon> no nokia/rx51 I can see
<freemangordon> that's unrelated
<KREYREN> will look through it
<freemangordon> that's not in master
<KREYREN> i see
<KREYREN> thanks for info
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<dsc_> freemangordon: requestLeave() on a channel from conversations for leaving channels
<dsc_> how is this picked up on the manager side of things?
<dsc_> e.g telepathy-tank
<dsc_> do you know?
<freemangordon> no, sorry
<dsc_> i dont know what signal to listen for
<freemangordon> sorry, don;t have time now
<freemangordon> in a week :)
<dsc_> np :)
<dsc_> I think I need to install a ChannelInterfaceGroupInterface
<dsc_> then listen to MembersChanged
<dsc_> will investigatge further
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<Wizzup> freemangordon: with server.conf and client.conf I still have working omp after calls
<Wizzup> with 32mb
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<arno11> Wizzup: server.conf ? i guess you mean daemon.conf or ?
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<arno11> anyway if it works, that's great
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<Wizzup> arno11: daemon.conf and client.conf yes
<arno11> ok
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<freemangordon> Wizzup: when it bugs, it is clearly visible in syslog
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<arno11> Wizzup: sicelo: amazing...i did the shm changes after discovering that i'm able to record sound @8000Hz on N900 now.
<arno11> and then calls work both ways @8000Hz now !!!
<arno11> (with 2 small changes in cmtspeechdata)
<arno11> (previously PA was crashing @8000Hz)
<arno11> it even works @16000Hz but sound is distorded
<dsc_> arno11: /usr/bin/maemo_kodi_remote exists now
<dsc_> (after apt upgrade)
<arno11> dsc_: cool will try this night
<dsc_> i didnt test on n900 so not sure if it scales well, I did try to account for smaller screens though
<arno11> ok
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<arno11> but @8000hz cpu usage is very high due to xorg burning 40%
<Wizzup> arno11: shm changes being, decreasing the size?
<arno11> yep i just tried 32MB atm
<arno11> but really not sure it is directly related
<arno11> but i can't explain why PA stopped crashing @8KHz (as you know it was a well known old issue)
<arno11> sound is very good btw (as expected)
<freemangordon> arno11: 32MB might be related with memory_overcommit precent
<freemangordon> *percent
<arno11> ok, btw do you think i should try a lower value ?
<freemangordon> I am using 16MB on d4 for the last few hours
<arno11> ok
<freemangordon> but, lets run different values for now
<freemangordon> as we don't know what potential issues that could have
<arno11> yep makes sense
<Wizzup> honestly even 16MB is quite a lot for 44.1khz
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<arno11> ok
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<arno11> Wizzup: with 32MB, already a big diff in emulators
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<freemangordon> Wizzup: does this mean that you have an idea how this shared mem is used?
<Wizzup> I assumed data is put in it and played from pa
<Wizzup> not sure what else it would be used for for the most part
<Wizzup> since it still communicates over unix socket
<arno11> well, sound through headset is also very good @8KHz now
<arno11> let's try dsc's kodi remote now
<freemangordon> Wizzup: no, they said they communicate over shm
<Wizzup> arno11: sweet @ better sound
<Wizzup> freemangordon: it says that unix socket is a requirement to use shm
<Wizzup> iirc in the link you provided
<freemangordon> but it is used as a kind of mutex/semaphore/event
<freemangordon> not for data transfer
<freemangordon> anyway, I think we can decrease shm size to somethign like 4MiB or somesuch
<freemangordon> this is still *lots of* data dammit
<freemangordon> and if we see issues, well, can always increase
<arno11> Wizzup: yes :)
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<Wizzup> freemangordon: agree
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<arno11> dsc_: kodi gui is ok but can't connect to my kodi (both manual and auto)
<arno11> *atm
<arno11> i'll have a look tomorrow
<arno11> rebooting with shm 4MB
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<KREYREN> arno11, hey got the tips? :p
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<arno11> KREYREN: most of them are in the wiki: https://leste.maemo.org/Nokia_N900
<KREYREN> and those which ain't? :p
<KREYREN> i am the kind of guy who would spent weeks of work to get 0.1% improvement
<arno11> ah cool same as me lol
<KREYREN> :D
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<KREYREN> it's passion art and a curse!
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<arno11> definitely. so to resume, you mainly need to block trackers from $HOME, use 500MHz as min freq, deactivate apt-worker and the important stuff missing is a custom transitions.ini file
<arno11> let me find a link
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<Wizzup> ah yeah let's see if we can get these things in tomorrow, the swap as well, for 6.6
<Wizzup> since I think we can put 6.6 in devel this weekend
<arno11> ah yes could be really cool
<Wizzup> my n900 doesn't always boot well still, but this could be home wrt trackers or not havnig 500 as min freq
<arno11> KREYREN: other tips: in the wiki there is the old overclock method using uImage: this way you can tweak dts and change voltage and freqs
<arno11> Wizzup: ah ok
<Wizzup> but I also have *both* swaps atm since when I removed the emmc one I didn't get it to boot well at all
<Wizzup> not sure what's up :D
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<arno11> emmc is definitely buggy now but boot issue seems an 'unknown' stuff (mine doesn't boot well also)
<arno11> i tried to remove everything i can and still have boot troubles
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<KREYREN> why is 500 as min frequency important? won't that hurt the battery life?
<KREYREN> Wizzup, elaorate on the fails to boot part? Mine sometimes boots without backlight on, but that seems to be due to getting it to boot via plugging in the USB cable instead of doing the power button that seems to be very important to charge capacitors to get proper display initialization
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<arno11> KREYREN: absolutely no impact on battery life
<KREYREN> arno11, that sounds like it's breaking the laws of physics O.o
<arno11> not really, there is a bias
<KREYREN> What's the benefit of that? faster overall responsiveness and avoiding the annoying times when the apps loading and maemo seems frozen?
<arno11> exactly
<arno11> and avoid power draw during unresponsive times
<arno11> but other things make it unresponsive: trackers, emmc swap (with kernel 6.6), blur effect in transitions
<KREYREN> i see
<arno11> and slow sd cards ofc
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<KREYREN> yea
<arno11> tbh now it is quite easy to improve/solve. the difficult stuff with n900 is power management
<arno11> long weeks needed for few mA lol
<dsc_> arno11: ok, thanks
<arno11> no probs
<KREYREN> arno11, yea i imagine that NixOS would make things a lot easier for like the deep optimization, but getting hildon packaged will take some time
<KREYREN> Do you get a good audio for SIP calls btw? mine is currently very unusable i hear like every 4th word and bad at that
<KREYREN> i noticed that there is a command to change the pulseaudio priority though
<arno11> yes it helps most of the time
<arno11> and yes i get good audio with sip
<KREYREN> Do you get more than 2G network?
<arno11> yep 3.5g
<KREYREN> says 2G for me at all times in country which has 3G everywhere
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<KREYREN> calls are much better with that chrt command, but still way too quiet and it seems to be loosing signal a lot
<arno11> weird
<KREYREN> oh it suggests Twinkle i am using the sphone thing
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<arno11> ??? so you mean you got sound both ways with sphone/sip ?
<KREYREN> yes
<arno11> Wizzup: ^^^
<arno11> great
<KREYREN> is that not suppose to happen? :D
<arno11> yep :D
<KREYREN> lol
<KREYREN> was using that for phone calls for last 2 days kinda had to employ talking as if it was a very unreliable radio but it got the message across.. with the chrt it seems much better though
<KREYREN> i just sometimes get the phone vibrating in my pocket and wont stop unless i reboot it though
<KREYREN> without like anything on the display
<arno11> ok that's an old bug being back
<arno11> and when you say phone calls, you mean sip calls through sphone, right ?
<KREYREN> yes
<arno11> ok let's see what Wizzup and uvos think about that.
<KREYREN> also with those tweaks the phone feels like a modern flagship in terms of responsiveness :D
<arno11> yes :D
<arno11> did you try boost mode btw ?
<KREYREN> nope how to enable it? though i kinda prefer the battery life
<arno11> oh no worries, almost no impact (well...just a bit)
<arno11> see overclock in the wiki
<arno11> just 2 command lines to use boost mode
<KREYREN> will do though i should probably wait for the new battery as the one i am using is kinda really old and i fear that it won't be able to pull a lot of watts out of it
<arno11> yeah ok
<KREYREN> bought paxona branded one but it didn't arrive yet
<arno11> ok
<arno11> zzz time here
<arno11> gn
<KREYREN> woah that boost is fast :D
<KREYREN> good night thanks for helps <3
<KREYREN> now i just need a functional web browser and i am happy :D
<arno11> you're welcome
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