08:38 <Jmabsd> anyone, 32GB RK3588 in pipe?

10:02 <Jmabsd> okay so Radxa emailed back and asked me how much I'd be willing to pay more for a 32GB :-D

10:03 <Jmabsd> Firefly said they'll release a 16GB variant in 8 days

10:03 <Jmabsd> 16 days

10:03 <Jmabsd> and didn't say anything about 32GB variant

10:06 <mps> Jmabsd: for me 8GB is enough for building even big software (though now I have machine with 16GB)

10:07 <mps> I've built firefox on gru-kevin with 4GB with help of zram swap about year ago

10:13 <Jmabsd> mps: build jobs I do barely manage on 4GB

10:13 <Jmabsd> i cannot have a web browser/X and the build job open at the same time

10:13 <Jmabsd> Apple are so godly closed source, it's the biggest minus. Like can't even install an SSD, without needing a plastic glue gun to fix the Thunderbolt connectors in place

10:13 <Jmabsd> closed-everything

10:25 <mps> Jmabsd: maybe I'm lucky because I use musl based distro (alpine) which need less ram than glibc

10:26 <Jmabsd> mps: Maybe. But I'd say below 32GB RAM will have some constraints as desktop/computing environment.

10:26 <Jmabsd> For this reason also I'm incredibly excited that the RK3588 supports so much.

10:27 <Jmabsd> Honestly RAM is a more critical and scarce computing resource than CPU computing power.

10:27 <Jmabsd> Running out of RAM is more painful than going 100% CPU consumption on a multicore machine.

10:28 <mps> strange, I comfortably use old arm32 chromebook with 4GB ram for daily work (not for compiling big software)

10:32 <Jmabsd> mps: you may have a low resolution display, not so many tabs open and not so dense work in those

10:32 <Jmabsd> sure for a few web browser tabs and LibreOffice only especially with one <=2K monitor only, and presuming you have some swap enabled, 4GB RAM will be fine indeed

10:32 <Jmabsd> you need to have swap on.

10:35 <mps> 1920x1080, about 15-20 tabs in firefox

10:35 <mps> and without swap

10:37 <mps> at the same time playing video with mpv

12:46 <wens> wonder how the qualcomm chips compare

12:47 <wens> snapdragon 7c

13:11 <robmur01> SQ2 (8cx gen2) is certainly proving OK as my daily driver and even for doing a bit of light local development (the older 830 machine was inescapably more of a "hey look I'm running a desktop OS on a giant phone!" novelty)

13:14 <robmur01> the fact that essentially the same CPU setup as RK3588 but tweaked and clocked 50% higher is "OK" is where my opinion comes from that RK3588 is unlikely to be a major laptop/desktop contender :)

13:40 <wens> surface pro x?

13:40 <robmur01> yup

13:44 <wens> looks like chromebooks are lagging behind

17:25 <Jmabsd> wens,robmur01: snapdragon 7c, what did I miss?

17:25 <Jmabsd> robmur01: I see. your SQ2 had how much RAM?

17:30 <robmur01> 16GB, which again seems to be precisely "enough" for the day job

17:31 <robmur01> my typical working set seems to be 10-12GB, and that's with the big fat box at the other end of SSH doing all the heavy lifting :)

17:40 <Jmabsd> lovely, i see. for me 32GB is the lowest point I dare to use.

17:40 <Jmabsd> robmur01: actually on that 50%-faster-than-RK3588 machine, what did *not* feel fast?

17:40 <Jmabsd> did it feel like a Core 2 Duo (2008) or like an i7 (2014)? :-)

17:53 <robmur01> I'd say it doesn't feel noticeably different from my i5 Surface Pro 4

17:55 <robmur01> and my 2009-ish Core 2 Duo has long been superseded by the RK3399 board as my primary home Linux machine :D

18:20 <Jmabsd> robmur01: that's interesting. yet, the 32GB ARM64 has so much more RAM than an i5 doesn't it

18:21 <Jmabsd> robmur01: anyhow i'll get my hands on the 32GB RK3588 and let you know my experience ;)

18:22 <Jmabsd> the RK3588 is exponentially faster than a top of the line RISCV HA HA

18:22 <Jmabsd> by a power of maybe 4, 10, more? ha ha

18:33 <Jmabsd> robmur01: actually, RockChip could take RK3588 and scale up the core count like 10x?????

18:33 <Jmabsd> wouldn't that make a quite nice desktop

18:34 <Jmabsd> honestly, upping 4x cores to like 20x, isn't that trivial just linear scale

18:40 <macc24> Jmabsd: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+is+power+usage+influenced+by+core+number

18:40 <Jmabsd> macc24: more watts is OK

21:03 <psydroid> yes, give me a chip with 32 slow Neoverse N2 cores and I'll be happy

21:10 <robmur01> Jmabsd: well, *in principle* Rockchip could design whatever they want, but something with that kind of core count would need to be a ground-up new design around a fundamentally different interconnect

21:14 <Jmabsd> robmur01: are ARM offering any such interconnect

21:14 <robmur01> is a company with zero experience in designing large server-class SoCs likely to suddenly invest in making something that looks like Altra/Graviton2/etc.? I'm gonna say no...

21:14 <Jmabsd> eMag and the other one have homemade solutions?

21:14 <Jmabsd> mm you are riht

21:15 <Jmabsd> do any eMag/Altra/Graviton2 mini-ITX motherboards exist?

21:15 <robmur01> AFAIK the big stuff with Neoverse cores is mostly using Arm's CMN interconnects as well

21:16 <robmur01> there's certainly enough customers bugging me about the CMN PMU driver :)

21:16 <Jmabsd> uh. can Neoverse be bought for €€€€ anywhere?

21:16 <Jmabsd> i saw the 10,000 USD price tag for an N1 board

21:17 <robmur01> yeah, don't count Arm's N1SDP, it's a very niche development-focused thing

21:17 <robmur01> AFAIK originally it wasn't even intended to be productised at all

21:18 <Jmabsd> so apart from N1SDP what's available?

21:18 <Jmabsd> i'm aware of that NXP mini itx SBC with 16 cores but it is so niche

21:23 <robmur01> for mere mortals, probably just infeasibly-expensive Altra-based boards at the moment. Most of the current wave of Neoverse designs are cloud providers' private in-house stuff, like Graviton2

21:23 <robmur01> that fabled Huawei Kunpeng desktop board looked kinda cool, but I'm not sure what ever came of it

21:29 <robmur01> probably the most desktop-focused SoCs I know of are the Phytium stuff that's pretty much unobtanium outside of China (and by all accounts not all that great really)

23:21 <Jmabsd> robmur01: Phytium is what?

23:21 <Jmabsd> robmur01: But Altra is making non standard form factor so you need not just their motherboard but also their chassi?? and it's full size ATX? mobility factor is zero is it

23:21 <Jmabsd> cost price around 6,000-10,000 USD for Altra?