dgilmore changed the topic of #fedora-riscv to: Fedora on RISC-V https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/RISC-V || Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/fedora-riscv || Alt Arch discussions are welcome in #fedora-alt-arches
<davidlt[m]> Yup
<davidlt[m]> That also means larger kernel patch releases now :)
<davidlt[m]> Well, RC1,2,3 might still bring more features.
<thefossguy> Yeah but we now know what’s in Linus’ tree :)
<thefossguy> Unlike some x86 patch, all RISCV patches were merged from -next
<djdelorie> davidlt[m]: is something wrong with my machine, or is koji just not offering any jobs for it?
<djdelorie> it did a bunch of jobs yesterday, then nothing
<davidlt[m]> djdelorie: yeah, it was a weekend :)
<djdelorie> ah, My paranoia was set to 11 since I had just rebuilt it
<davidlt[m]> This one, I was quite relaxed with just a few builds ;)
<davidlt[m]> I did more local work too.
<davidlt[m]> I tested binutils patch that fixes TEXTREL issue.
<davidlt[m]> It's gonna be fun to scan full repo and rebuild whatever is broken :)
<djdelorie> we've been using a "mass prebuilder" for such things, but I don't know how it would work outside copr and the official farm
<davidlt[m]> I don't have horse power for "mass prebuilder" :)
<djdelorie> i can at least scan a repo for build dependencies
<davidlt[m]> This issue is an old one, from like 2017, but it got way worse it seems.
<davidlt[m]> What?! TH1520 patches already on linux-riscv?
<davidlt[m]> [PATCH 0/5] Add Sipeed Lichee Pi 4A RISC-V board support
<davidlt[m]> Jisheng Zhang seems to be from Alibaba.
<davidlt[m]> If Alibaba will be working on it, it could kill VF2 :)
<davidlt[m]> This is just basics so far, enough to boot and get UART.
<davidlt[m]> Still cannot believe it :)
<thefossguy> Is this the SoC from the first riscv laptop?
<davidlt[m]> Yeah, but I don't think there are proof that it exist :)
<davidlt[m]> Apart that crazy announcement with tons of clickbait.
<thefossguy> I thought that was just an announcement that "hey we are working on this"
<davidlt[m]> Don't really care. That was had NFT, Web3, Crypto, etc. all the clickbait tags in it.
<davidlt[m]> (all that are not related to hardware).
<thefossguy> Yeah, felt bizarre to me too
<thefossguy> Does the SoC exist standalone though?
<thefossguy> For integration in some real products?
<thefossguy> Or is this like Shakti?
<davidlt[m]> Probably just a milestone.
<davidlt[m]> Most RISCV SoC are not designed for specific mass market product.
<davidlt[m]> But are just a learning milestone and to slowly break into the market (well, find it).
<thefossguy> Okay
<davidlt[m]> Yeah, basically, that means that making JH7110 is lost of money.
<davidlt[m]> loss
<thefossguy> Intern talk: well now, dont be sad, you gained experience 
<davidlt[m]> Depending on how much Baidu invested, StarFive might have their main market target already.
<davidlt[m]> A few initial SoCs might not have a particular large market and thus are technically e-waste.
<thefossguy> I didn’t know Baidu invested. Just checked, its very recent news.   
<davidlt[m]> Yeah.
<davidlt[m]> If this is a large investment, Baidu will define StarFive priorities.
<davidlt[m]> It would be nice to see some competition against Alibaba.
<davidlt[m]> So far, StarFive basically list all possible markets as their interest.
<davidlt[m]> You only do that for a few years as early startup.
<davidlt[m]> At some point, they need to narrow down their focus to make money.
<davidlt[m]> These SoCs are basically to acquire skills, processes, marketing, etc.
<davidlt[m]> So Baidu might be their moment.
<davidlt[m]> But we will not see any fruits of that some for years probably.
<thefossguy> I hope they go in HPC but not further into AI
<thefossguy> Because AI is such a vendor locked down segment
<thefossguy> But AI is also profitable for this exact reason 
<thefossguy> Personally, what Tenstorrent did with tensix cores is very genius 
<davidlt[m]> To be determined. It sounds cool, but will it survive we will know for some time :)
<davidlt[m]> Most companies don't care about some vendor 1st, or even 2nd gen stuff. You typically start gaining traction from 3rd gen. The roadmap and delivering on it is more important.
<thefossguy> Well, it Jim Keller. His name ought to hold some weight.   
<davidlt[m]> Just look how long it took for AMD to start going again in the server market.
<davidlt[m]> Not really.
<davidlt[m]> He worked in pretty much every large company by now.
<thefossguy> Yeah, first and second gens are just public beta 
<davidlt[m]> What's interesting (I would say) is that Tenstorrent used existing IP to start.
<davidlt[m]> They have 3 generations (I think) products based on 3rd party IP.
<thefossguy> I think that’s needed initially? Otherwise the ROI would take a long time
<thefossguy> Tensix is first party IIRC
<davidlt[m]> I think their last one is usign SiFive X280.
<thefossguy> Yeah
<davidlt[m]> Yeah, that's kinda of prototype phase.
<thefossguy> With the BF data type
<davidlt[m]> It takes half a decade basically from idea to a product in a customers hand.
<davidlt[m]> And again, no one really cares about 1st, or 2nd gen, and only considers you from ~3rd one.
<davidlt[m]> So basically you need to burn money for a long time before starting to make a profit.
<davidlt[m]> It's different for HPC. Government can drop you 500 million USD to build a chip, or similar.
<davidlt[m]> In that case you need to make profit on 1st gen.
<davidlt[m]> Otherwise you need significant killer app, or be competitive and deliver on your roadmap.
<thefossguy> You also need to deliver on first gen ;)
<thefossguy> *deliver well
<davidlt[m]> So if you are 1.3x better than Nvidia no one will care about you :)
<davidlt[m]> Delivering + roadmap.
<davidlt[m]> Because companies are working on their own products, and that depends on 3rd company roadmap.
<davidlt[m]> Like Apple depends on TSMC delivering their latest manufacturing process for a new iPhone.
<davidlt[m]> If you mess up, or/and mess up quite often you might go out of the picture.
<thefossguy> Yeah. Hardware is extremely cut throat.   
<davidlt[m]> fuwei: who is Jisheng Zhang <jszhang@kernel.org> ? Does he work at Alibaba/T-HEAD, or just a person interested in TH1520 upstream support?
<fuwei> I guess ,NO
<fuwei> maybe the people in community who wanna to do it
<davidlt[m]> Anyways, still cool to see someone doing it.
<davidlt[m]> The patches are minimal enough that this probably will land in v6.5.
<davidlt[m]> I just hope there will be more parts too.
<davidlt[m]> I looked at SDK and majority of IP blocks are well known. There is very little 1st party IP.
<davidlt[m]> If configuration of those IP blocks and revisions are supported it should be easy to enable them sooner than later too.
<davidlt[m]> GPIO is snps,dw-apb-gpio.
<davidlt[m]> QPSI is snps,dw-apb-ssi-quad
<davidlt[m]> SPI is snps,dw-apb-ssi
<davidlt[m]> Watchdog is snps,dw-wdt
<davidlt[m]> Ah yes, the interesting part was RTC because it's compatible with apm,xgene-rtc :)
<davidlt[m]> DMA is snps,axi-dma-1.01a
<davidlt[m]> eMMC is snps,dwcmshc-sdhci
<davidlt[m]> same for the SD card.
<davidlt[m]> I2C is snps,designware-i2c
<davidlt[m]> TRNG is inside-secure,safexcel-eip76, but I don't know this one.
<davidlt[m]> Networking might be a problem as it's thead,light-dwmac. So there is something specific for the SoC.
<davidlt[m]> USB is also problematic as it's thead,dwc3. Again some kind of deviation from standard IP block, or quirks, or something.
<fuwei> I am looking in to it , but I have ported it to 6.2, happy to see something in upstream
<davidlt[m]> fuwei: are you interesting in working in upstreaming some bits? I bet you already have the board.
<fuwei> yes, I am trying to sorting out the patchset
<fuwei> I have evb, licheepi 4a and beaglev
<fuwei> I have contacted with him , will call him for a sync today
<fuwei> alexfanqi:
<fuwei> davidlt[m]:
<davidlt[m]> fuwei: cool
<davidlt[m]> If possible focus on networking, USB and eMMC/SD.
<fuwei> sure, I am also working on uboot
<davidlt[m]> Yeah, that's also needed. The fastest storage on this would be USB.
<davidlt[m]> The benefit of having USB means you can plug pretty much anything (storage, networking, etc.)
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<thefossguy> <davidlt[m]> "GPIO is snps,dw-apb-gpio." <- Is snps Synopsis?
<davidlt[m]> Yes
<davidlt[m]> I think, I have a stupid script to scan all builds for breakage.
<davidlt[m]> But that's after lunch, starving already.
<thefossguy> Isn’t it 14:30-ish there?
<davidlt[m]> It is.
<davidlt[m]> That's why I am starving :)
<thefossguy> Get a habit, it’s literally harmful for your body
<thefossguy> It’s already affecting you if you have acidity now
<davidlt[m]> Let's see if I can setup the test on a remote server instead of enjoying that fan noise at home
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<davidlt[m]> Okay, let's do 30 minutes test and see how many packages we can check.
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<davidlt[m]> I think, this will be enough. ~30 min and ~4000 builds checked.
<davidlt[m]> I have 44 RPMs already affected by TEXTRELs bug.
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<davidlt[m]> 50+% of builds scanned.
<davidlt[m]> Almost done.
<davidlt[m]> 172 RPMs that have TEXTRELs broken, not bad.
<davidlt[m]> fuwei: did you get any news about 64-core dev kit?
<dtometzki> <davidlt[m]> "fuwei: who is Jisheng Zhang <..." <- In .mailmap you will see synaptics.com
<dtometzki> * davidlt: In .mailmap
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