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<lisp123>
scymtym: Thanks! That worked well
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<lisp123>
Good morning beach
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<ebrasca>
Good morning beach!
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<jackdaniel>
lisp123: it seems that I gave you somewhat incorrect information about asdf yesterday (scymtym provided correction), sorry about that
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<lisp123>
jackdaniel: No issues :)
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<puchacz>
morning - in trivia a pattern (list :x y z) means match to a list that starts with the keyword :x, then bind remaining 2 elements to variables y and z. How can I say that I want to match to a list that has a specific symbol, like I did for the keyword please?
<lisp123>
Why was CMUCL conceptually hard to port to new platforms and how did SBCL solve that (if anybody knows)?
<jackdaniel>
cmucl build relied (still relies) on a previous version of cmucl, sbcl now may be boostrapped from a conforming common lisp implementation
<lisp123>
Ah, that makes a lot of sense
<jackdaniel>
also cmucl bundled (bunles?) various contribs like clx etc, so there were more software to "port" if necessary
<lisp123>
That's true. Stuff like hemlock as well
<jackdaniel>
sbcl has only the implementation and implementation-specific contribs (if I understand correctly)
<lisp123>
So ECL & CLISP play a big role in portability of the ecosystem
<jackdaniel>
I'd say that sbcl is also a conforming implementation you may bootstrap it from
<lisp123>
I see
<jackdaniel>
here's a funny quiz: (define-symbol-macro foo 42) (constantp 'foo) ; <- what is the result of the second form?
<puchacz>
jackdaniel - thanks, I will try
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<hayley>
jackdaniel: It might be true or false, depending on if CONSTANTP expands macros.
<jackdaniel>
exactly
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<puchacz>
jackdaniel - FYI, quoting a symbol in trivia works.
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<puchacz>
okay, fare-quasiquote is a better syntax for matching lists in trivia. works for ABCL. not sure how standard named readtables are.
<jackdaniel>
puchacz: what are you working btw?
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<puchacz>
jackdaniel - at my day job, I am analysing a spreadsheet with visual basic formulae.
<puchacz>
so I load it with Java's Apache POI (hacked to show me VBA tree) and map it to Lisp's nested lists
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<puchacz>
I match against these VBA abstract syntax trees
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<puchacz>
in excel, people tend to copy-paste formulae so only cell references are different, but the formula structure is the same
<puchacz>
like =IF(ISNUMBER(cellRef), something, elseSomethingElse)
<jackdaniel>
indeed sounds like a pattern matching :)
<puchacz>
yes, first time ever I tried it and it is a perfect match, pardon the pun
<jackdaniel>
or parsing
<puchacz>
parsing is done by Apache POI in Java, but their default source code does not expose it, so I had to add a minor hack there first
<puchacz>
I match against what Apache POI returns (but represented as Lisp's nested lists)
<jackdaniel>
I see
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<puchacz>
by the way, can I "install" named reatable permanently in my package?
<puchacz>
so I don't need to have (in-readtable :fare-quasiquote) in every file and in REPL?
<hayley>
Packages don't know anything about named readtables, so it seems unlikely.
<jackdaniel>
you could write asdf extension to do that
<puchacz>
is it per file, this form? (in-readtable ...) ?
<jackdaniel>
like asdf-flv
<jackdaniel>
yes, *readtable* is a file local variable
<puchacz>
ok, another day then :)
<puchacz>
tks
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<puchacz>
is the named-readtables library written in standard common lisp btw?
<puchacz>
i.e. guaranteed to work in any compliant lisp? or something that relies on non-standard language extensions?
<hayley>
It's all standard Common Lisp to my knowledge.
<hayley>
At least, I don't see what implementation dependent code would be needed.
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<rotateq>
and even when the #+ and #- save the day ^^
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<puchacz>
thanks :)
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<jackdaniel>
I've heard that if you run in-readtable under three different implementations at midnight and look in the mirror.. it is too scary to tell
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<puchacz>
:)
<rotateq>
hehe
<rotateq>
so who spawn then?
<rotateq>
*spawns
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* candlejack
can't tell but his nick contains a hint why
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<Guest7476>
couldn't you just change the readtable in your config file?
<puchacz>
not sure, these things are new to me
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<puchacz>
and I need to balance my time between actually progressing with analysing the spreadsheet and improving the toolset
<puchacz>
so for now I am accepting I need to change the readtable in every file or when I start REPL
<puchacz>
on another note, I think changing readtable knocked out reader macro in ABCL that I used to call into Java, e.g. (#"methodName" object arg1 arg2) etc.
<puchacz>
I will figure out later how to restore it
<puchacz>
of course things that are already compiled with this macro still work
<puchacz>
(possibly just call the line from the JSS package that installed this macro in the first place)
<puchacz>
(in its source file)
<Bike>
hayley, puchaz: named readtables has some implementation specific stuff to paper over minor differencdes, and also to iterate over readtables efficiently (since the only standard way would be to go over every character in the charset). i think it will load without implementation-specific support, though.
<puchacz>
Bike, I will find out sooner or later :)
<puchacz>
as now I am starting to use it
<Bike>
and named-readtables has a thing to import individual macros from other readtables you could probably use for #"
<puchacz>
oh, what am I looking for please?
<puchacz>
and will it modify the fare-quasiquote readtable, or I need to add the #" macro each time I change readtables?
<Guest7476>
you should probably make your own readtable with everything you need in it.
<puchacz>
ok, I will explore it, I see named-readtables has a faciilty to merge readtables
<puchacz>
but for now, back to actual work :)
* edgar-rft
thinks about doing some hypothetical meta-work
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<Guest7476>
Is there a way to have print-object only apply to a certain package. bit-vectors seem like a bad choice now when I've got over 600 elements of which only a handful are set.
<Guest7476>
I mainly want to change how bit-vectors are displayed in slimes inspector.
<yitzi>
You might be able to come up with something with an :around method that does call-next-method conditionally.
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<lisp123>
Guest7476: Can you try shadowing it?
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<Guest7476>
i think slime just uses the cl generic.
<Guest7476>
yitzi: It seems like print-object just gets the object, no symbol, so can't see how I would constrain that.
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<lisp123>
Guest7476: So what do you currently do? Am I correct in assuming you have written a method specialising PRINT-OBJECT for your class but don't that particular version to apply for objects interned in a particular package?
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<Guest7476>
I wouldn't want it to affect the display of bit-vectors in any body else's stuff. Maybe i'll just use it while debugging. or maybe I'll just ditch the bit vectors. I'm not sure what the speed difference is constantly counting under 10 elements ina 600 bit array compared to just having a list of the 10 elements.
<pjb>
Guest7476: methods dispatch in classes, and on objects.
<pjb>
Guest7476: so you'd have to make a specific class, or dispatch on specific bit-vector instances.
<Guest7476>
or maybe there's something in slime? Which is what I'm mainly after.
<yitzi>
Maybe you could just check to see if the swank package is loaded?
<etimmons>
You can probably do something with `emacs-inspect` That's the GF swank uses to prepare the display for the inspector
<etimmons>
If all your bit vectors are within your own classes, just specialize on your class and change how they're presented
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<Guest7476>
no, the best way would be to specialize on the stream type if slime had a specific type of stream. this would still affect other packages.
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<_death>
you could add a parameter to emacs-inspect's GF that allows different clients
<Guest7476>
etimmons: they get passed around and are sometimes standalone. checking out that fn.
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<etimmons>
I think your problem is ill specified. Why are you so concerned about the package? It seems like you want them to display differently only while you're developing/debugging. If so, just put it in your init file and not in your project
<Guest7476>
looks like all the inspect things are functions.
<etimmons>
Or put it in your project as a helper and tell others to evaluate it if they're starting to debug your code
<Guest7476>
Like I said, I could do that. But it would be nice to know if it's possible some way. Knowledge never hurts.
<Guest7476>
ah, found the methods.
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<etimmons>
If you're focused on package, the best I think you can do is yitzi's :around method and look at the current *package* binding. As far as I know there is no way for you to take an object and figure out which symbols are bound to it (which is what it sounds like you want).
<Guest7476>
thanks _death: that's interesting.
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<Guest7476>
etimmons: yeah, that kinda works if you're in the package. kinda impossible to trace back the value to the package, so I guess that's out.
<Guest7476>
ugh, now I got to remove a method. Guess it's time to try it from the slime inspector.
<_death>
very easy using the inspector
<Guest7476>
lol, how do I inspect the generic in the first place?
<_death>
#'foo
<_death>
C-c I * RET
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<Guest7476>
thanks!
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<Guest7476>
oh, that's so painless.
<lisp123>
_death: Thanks! Didn't know that shortcut
<_death>
(replace * with #'foo if you wish.. often I find that I evaluate things in the repl because I want to inspect them)
<Guest7476>
what else works with C-c? There documentation somewhere?
<lisp123>
Guest7476: C-h b in your slime buffer will tell you all the bindings
<Guest7476>
thumbs up
<_death>
or C-h m .. recently emacs developers overhauled its design, though I don't compile emacs often enough to have it
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<Guest7476>
wonder what all the ^L 's are in the output
<Guest7476>
man it's impossible to call code-char on it.
<_death>
the lhs shows the old, rhs shows the new
<_death>
(code-char 12) => #\Page
<_death>
(string #\Page) => " "
<Guest7476>
yes, just can't get it from a copy paste
<lisp123>
I guess the drop downs are nice
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<_death>
the little images are weird, as the post hints.. but there are much worse discussions on emacs-devel that aren't for the faint hearted long time emacs user.. though often in practice UI conservatism wins, as it should :)
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<lisp123>
Indeed, Emacs conservatism is one of its best features! Guaranteed to stay the same (more or less)
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