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<jcowan>
a function that returns the max and min of a sequence as two values might well be called `extrema`
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<jcowan>
paip ch 23
<White_Flame>
also, the most direct standard function to build it around would likely be REDUCE
<White_Flame>
(having not looked up if that's how PAIP implemented it)
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<jcowan>
Not on lists, though
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<Bike>
not on lists?
<jcowan>
reduce on lists is inherently O(n), I think
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<Bike>
but how you could you compute the extrema of an unsorted sequence in sublinear time?
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<White_Flame>
Bike: just have it guess really luckily? :-P
<Bike>
probably some quantum nonsense
<Bike>
after grover's algorithm i believe in nothing
<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<pve>
Shinmera: Very interesting talk! I can well imagine people in the audience being intrigued by your examples. How do you feel it was received? Did the audience understand?
<pve>
Man, now I feel like making a game :)
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<Shinmera>
I have no clue
<Shinmera>
There was only one question, so I feel like it went by too fast for most people :v
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<jdz>
Shinmera: My guess is that all of those features went well over everybody's heads without a demo.
<jdz>
Shinmera: Did you get a chance to show how it all works in practice to somebody in your "booth"?
<Shinmera>
No, nobody came by :(
<Shinmera>
But yeah, I considered doing a live version of the talk instead, but then didn't have any time to properly test and prepare something like that.
<Shinmera>
Plus, when I *did* do a live version of this during my ELS talks I still felt like most people didn't even get what was happening
<Shinmera>
so I'm not sure how much it really helps
<jdz>
What do you mean "prepare for an on-line demo"?
<jdz>
As if anything went wrong with those, ever.
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<xaltsc>
Hey, is it possible to use dolist with a list of functions ? doing (dolist (fun funlist) (fun arg)) doesn't work.
<jackdaniel>
xaltsc: (dolist (fun (funlist)) (funcall fun arg))
<jackdaniel>
functions and variables doesn't share the same namespace, so you need to pass the variable to this operator
<jackdaniel>
there is also apply for applying lists to the function
<xaltsc>
jackdaniel: do I need the surrounding parentheses around funlist ? I didn't know about funcall, I tried #'fun, but it didn't work either...
<jackdaniel>
no, that's my braino
<jackdaniel>
(dolist (fun funlist) (funcall fun arg))
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<pl>
jackdaniel: is there "oxford comma" option?
<edgar-rft>
...and what about diatonic commas?
<jackdaniel>
I'm sure they are pretty educated them commas :)
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Why is the GUI situation in common lisp so annoying? I have tried GTK (cl-cffi-gtk3/2), QT (CommonQT and QTools), Nuklear (bodge-ui-window) and quite a few more. One problem they all have is documentation, I can live without docs on a small library but an entire GUI Framework! QT was by far the most annoying... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/efe508be33c31a7774aab0490b20cb2c8f95ac70)
<jackdaniel>
pl: if you don't add :suppress-separator-… then comma will be added before the conjunction
<jackdaniel>
i.e "bam, sam, and wow
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<jackdaniel>
CodeBitCookie[m]: probably because writing documentaiton is a very tedious task
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<pl>
jackdaniel: ahhh, great
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
jackdaniel: True but can anyone suggested even in the ones I listed?
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
s/jackdaniel: True but can anyone suggested even in the ones I listed?/jackdaniel: True but can anyone suggest any GUI solution, even in the ones I listed?/
<edgar-rft>
CodeBitCookie[m]: Common Lisp GUI usually means using CAPI (Lispworks) or CLIM (Franz Inc.), and there is McClim, a free CLIM implementation.
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<CodeBitCookie[m]>
edgar-rft: So do you know how to theme it, even slightly?
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<jackdaniel>
CodeBitCookie[m]: I can't recommend anything given problems you have encountered. I had a pleasent experience with ltk
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Since this is aimed at newbies, which can only stand pretty GUIs. I don't think that McCLIM is ugly, others do.
<jackdaniel>
but its documentation is lacking (i.e it has numerous widgets that are not present in the documentation)
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
jackdaniel: I have tried LTK but have heard and understood that it is not that viable for a bigger application. Maybe I am wrong?
<jackdaniel>
you can tell them that it is retro, not ugly ;)
<edgar-rft>
Newbies write bigger apps?
<pl>
CodeBitCookie[m]: is it really? A lot of stuff got done in Tcl/Tk
<jackdaniel>
or wave you hand and say: if you find it ugly you may easily theme it ,p
<pl>
I feel like "not viable for larger application" is C++ meme
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Oh and another one was IUP. This one looked (and still looks?) interesting to me. That is actually pretty cool. I only encountered some problems with it. It has good docs too.
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
pl: Hmmm, Okay I am now looking into Tcl/Tk
<pl>
Ltk is essentially a thin wrapper around Tcl/Tk
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
pl: What about FLTK?
<pl>
I seem to recall it being C++
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
pl: Can you give me any examples for Tk being used?
<pl>
not on hand, used to be bigger, including various tools on linux that are now dead :(
<pl>
I haven't done much GUI programming in last decade
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<pl>
there was for example a pretty popular Jabber client in Tcl/Tk
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
pl: Woowwwww, it works right of the bat, I just created it and it immediately ran just like nuklear! Except, this is much more popular ANDDD https://tkdocs.com/tutorial/styles.html
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
It might just be the GUI Framework I use.
<pl>
personally I was going to investigate Tcl/Tk sometime soon again, with possibly writing GUI completely in Tcl while having "business logic" in CL, linked with CORBA
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
The live coding part is also settled with `(start-wish)`
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
pl: CORBA? Except for the long accronym that flew over my head, what is it?
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<pl>
CodeBitCookie[m]: RPC system, used to be more popular but still there in niche applications, with pretty wide support between languages, so I think linking CL, Tcl, and other languages together should be somewhat simpler
<borodust>
CodeBitCookie[m]: it's too much work for zero return :)
<borodust>
answering your question why
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
borodust: I follow with you question too.
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
s/you/your/
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<borodust>
CodeBitCookie[m]: btw, you can get nice UI with good documentation from LispWorks
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<borodust>
ah, i see, edgar-rft already suggested it
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<asarch>
Is there a short way to test zero string other than (= (length "") 0)?
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<borodust>
alexandria:emptyp
<varjag>
string-equal
<hayley>
(zerop (length "")) is just more specific.
<Catie>
I usually just wrap it into an inlined function, empty-string-p
<asarch>
Thank you! Thank you very much! :-)
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
<edgar-rft> "Newbies write bigger apps?" <- I meant normies.
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
pl: One thing I see is that the linux version doesn't look native at all. It looks more native to Windows on Linux.
<Odin->
... that's ironic.
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<CodeBitCookie[m]>
hmmmmm
<pl>
CodeBitCookie[m]: because there's no native look on linux
<Catie>
One of the downsides of not being a monolith
<pl>
well, unless one considers Motif look to be native X11, then old-style Tk looks native ;)
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
pl: You are right but most people call "native" just the GTK theme.
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<pl>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<pl>
I find motif style to be pretty nice
<pl>
just like standard Windows style works pretty well.
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
True, and most linux users won't care much, if they do care I will maybe add an option for theming?
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Anyways I have to go sleep. Hopefully LTK or nodgui works for me since this is my last hope, after this I either ditch Common Lisp for GUI Programming or create a GUI framework from scratch in OpenGL. This is very darastic I know.
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Hopefully I won't have to make that choice.
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<CodeBitCookie[m]>
How many times have I typed hope again?
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
lol
<Catie>
Hope springs eternal
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Catie: Atleast I learnt a new idiom today. ;)
<Catie>
I'm glad! It's one of the more uplifting ones, I think
<Catie>
Get some good rest!
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