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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<leo_song>
is it safe to run Quicklisp in an unsafe network? like apublic wifi.
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<^[>
leo_song: It depends on your threat model. Some might argue that it's not safe to run Quicklisp anywhere, because it doesn't use TLS or verify downloaded packages.
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<pjb>
leo_song: what is not safe is to execute code that you haven't checked and validated. So ftp+asdf can be as unsafe as quicklisp, if you don't add an audit in the middle.
<pjb>
leo_song: now arguably, quicklisp doesn't have an audit hook between transfer and asdf (and asdf itself is already executing code from the asd file), so quicklisp is fundamentaly more unsafe than ftp+audit+asdf.
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<pjb>
leo_song: the security model adopted here is the herd security. You just keep your ear open, and listen if somebody else has had a problem. And you'll react in that case. But it may be you… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2KwRPtEjco
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<moon-child>
I guess the specific concern (given public wifi) is mitm. The question then is whether asdf uses a secure transport layer and/or does signature checking
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<kakuhen>
another day, another ccl kernel error
<kakuhen>
but this time it's for a really reason: turns out the placement of your assets folder matters A LOT if you use cl-sdl2... the wrong placement of the binary will give you "unrecoverable stack overflow error" and drop you to the kernel debugger
<kakuhen>
for a really funny reason*
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<Josh_2>
Hi
<Josh_2>
What fun should I pass to every to check if an element is non nil?
<Josh_2>
Obv null checks if its nil, whats the opposite of null :think:
<Josh_2>
maybe this is why people use (loop ... :thereis )
<Josh_2>
(every (lambda (e) e) just seems long
<_death>
identity
<_death>
THEREIS is SOME, not EVERY..
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<mfiano>
Josh_2: #'identity, or if it conveys the intent better, (notany #'null ...)
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<jcowan>
Or #'values, though that is not as clear as #'identity
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<Josh_2>
Thanks
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<gin>
Is there a funcall equivalent for invoking a macro?
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<beach>
You can call the macro function manually.
<beach>
(funcall (macro-function 'when) '(when aa 234) nil)
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<beach>
Or you can use macroexpand.
<beach>
gin: What is it that you want to do?
<gin>
beach: macroexpand only expands the macro? it does not invoke it, right?
<MichaelRaskin>
Arguably you want mactoexpand-1
<beach>
gin: What does it mean to "invoke" a macro?
<MichaelRaskin>
macroexpand and macroexpand-1 perform the expansion but do not evaluate the result of the expansion
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<gin>
beach: I have a macro add-key-value to add a key value pair to an alist. I wrote a macro for this because that is the only way I see to implement something like (add-key-value "name" "Harry" alist) type of calls.
<beach>
gin: Macros are usually compile-time features. It doesn't make much sense to "invoke" them at run time.
<gin>
beach: So the problem I have having is that if I have another function that takes alist and uses add-key-value, this function should also become a macro now to avoid alist being copied by value to this function.
<pjb>
gin: you can just eval the macroform too.
<beach>
gin: Nothing is ever copied implicitly in Common Lisp.
<pjb>
gin: you want to write a setf function or define setf-expander.
<gin>
beach: how can I implement function add-key-value so that (add-key-value "name" "Harry" alist) works then. With a function, I see the alist I pass never sees the change done within add-key-value
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<beach>
gin: So you don't mean that you add things to an alist. You mean that you modify the place that contains the alist.
<gin>
beach: yes. but I was originally looking to modify the alist itself. when I could not do that I modified the place containing the alist using defmacro
<beach>
gin: I suggest you turn your alist into an abstract data type that you can then modify with a function.
<beach>
gin: Alists and lists in general, are not abstract data types. They should mostly be used as building blocks for abstract data types. Not so much be used by themselves for things like this.
<beach>
gin: If you insist on using alists, then use the return value of your addition function.
<beach>
gin: Like (setf <place> (add-key-value <key> <value> <alist>)).
<beach>
gin: Then add-key-value can be an ordinary function.
<pjb>
gin: notice how (let ((a '())) (values (setf (aget a :key) 42) a)) #| --> 42 ; ((:key . 42)) |# (setf aget) both returns the new value 42, and mutates the place A (which could be more complex than just a mere variable reference, and still handled correctly thanks to get-setf-expander and define-setf-expander).
<pjb>
gin: of course, you can s/aget/key-value/g and (setf (key-value person-alist :name) "Harry")
<char>
What is suggested alternative to SET? I need SETQ but my symbol is already quoted.
<Xach>
char: nothing wrong with SET
<Xach>
char: it is pretty rare though
<Xach>
char: (setf (symbol-value symbol) ...) might be more modern
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<char>
hyperspec says set is depricated. It also seems that both set and symbol-value cannot access the lexical value of a symbol
<Xach>
that's right.
<Xach>
i don't let the hyperspec's deprecation tell me what to do!
<char>
okay, but the no lexical access is a problem because the symbol is lexically bound
<Xach>
char: that means it's time to think about a different approach, like maybe having a lookup table keyed by symbols instead.
<Xach>
but the best option depends on context and task
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<Xach>
Can you explain that stuff a bit?
<Xach>
I'm curious about how you get the symbol, for example
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<char>
it is for my tailrec macro, someone told me to stop using destructuring-bind and set the variables manually (to avoid code duplication in macroexpandsion). So I have quoted symbols (that were present in the original lambda list and used in the body of the function, and I have their values stored in a list in a (gensymed) symbol. I was thinking "just (mapc 'set ',params ,args)", but since the params are lexically bound, it is almost as
<char>
if they are never set at all.
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<char>
keep in mind that paramas is a list of symbols at macro time, and args is the gensym containing the list of values at run time.
<char>
my thought was that I can't map over args at compile time because the list doesn't exist yet, but is should be the same length as params, so maybe I can expand a bunch of (setq ,param (elt ,args n).
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<Xach>
char: a reasonable approach (though elt is not the best)
<char>
Jeez louise, what is wrong with elt? better to use nth?
<shka>
char: elt on the list has O(n) complexity
<shka>
where n is the index
<shka>
so clearly not ideal
<mfiano>
It's also more generic and potentially slower than other methods.
<shka>
less of a problem imho
<mfiano>
ELT is a good choice if the intent to the reader is that it is operating on a more generic sequence
<char>
shka: right, of course, but I don't have much of a choice in my situation. Also the list will be fairly short
<shka>
oh, there is one more good reason to use elt
<shka>
char: maybe you can paste your code somewhere
<shka>
?
<shka>
elt will signal error, when the index is out of bounds
<shka>
this works in such way that recursive call is replaced by go-to-start
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<shka>
which is what you were doing if i understand correctly
<shka>
this code is much shorter and simpler though
<shka>
thanks to that macrolet that will shadow the function-name in the lexical scope
<shka>
neat trick in situations such as this
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<char>
shka: That took me a bit to understand, but I think I get it now. It is neat, but I don't think it is right for this project, since once of the goals is that non-tail-recursive functions should still function properly.
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