cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: #pypy PyPy, the flexible snake https://pypy.org | IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end and https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/pypy | the pypy angle is to shrug and copy the implementation of CPython as closely as possible, and staying out of design decisions
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<cfbolz> woops, I think I found the reason for the occasional slow outliers/big pauses in the incremental GC
<cfbolz> the code has this nice comment: "The idea is to ensure termination at the cost of some incrementality, in theory." (but it seems the theory is wrong and it trades a huge amount of incrementality for termination here)
<cfbolz> maybe there's another theory that explains the spikes, checking
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<krono> :D
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<cfbolz> and the answer is 🥁
<cfbolz> finalizers
<cfbolz> surprise
<nimaje> hm, would replacing finalizers with some cleaner api, like java tries (jep 421, ...), help?
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<arigato> cfbolz: how is that? finalizers in RPython should run quite quickly
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<cfbolz> arigato: it's the computation of the order I think?
<cfbolz> also that part is not incremental
<arigato> ah I see, annoying
<cfbolz> yeah :-(
<cfbolz> but would be really annoying to fix i think
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<fijal> arigato: hi!
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<arigato> fijal: hi!
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<arigato> cfbolz: I *think* I remember that it wouldn't be too hard to make that incremental, but of course that's assuming someone has got all the details in mind
<cfbolz> yeah, which I very much don't for example 😅
<fijal> arigato: I'm a zombie, but I did write about rhino on slack
<cfbolz> arigato: did you see this paper yet, btw?: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2204.10455.pdf
<fijal> I see you even responded, I *am* a zombie
<cfbolz> arigato: the idea is kind of neat, but it's also the only VM paper I've ever seen that mentions Langrange multipliers in a footnote :-)
<arigato> cfbolz: yes, I've seen it
<arigato> might be worth trying it out
<cfbolz> yeah, should be relatively easy. racket did a somewhat more minimal variant and that was a one line change, essentially
<cfbolz> I just find it hard to identify how one would say that it's an improvement, without very careful measurements
* hpk waves briefly before dropping off train wifii
<hpk> reading these nicks in succession revives some memories ;) hope you are all well.
<cfbolz> hpk: hah, hey holger :-)
<cfbolz> hpk: but arigo has a whole three extra letters these days!
<cfbolz> (these days = since like ten years or something)
<cfbolz> ehm, two
* antocuni also waves 👋🏻
<cfbolz> hehe, paging mwhudson then
<cfbolz> pedronis hasn't been on irc in a long time I think. I met him this summer though
<fijal> hpk: I was pondering what you doing these days
<arigato> hi all
<arigato> for the story, I remember I changed my nick to "arigato" in response to hpk changing his own to hpk42 :-)
<cfbolz> arigato: that just proves that it was long ago I think ;-)
<arigato> ;-)
* mwhudson waves
<cfbolz> hey michael, you doing well? :-)
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