09:09 <cfbolz> mattip: did we come to a decision about multiprocessing and spawn? Should we document it in the release notes?

10:20 <mattip> cfbolz: If it is still occurring on the nightly, then we should document it

10:20 <cfbolz> mattip: I can try in a bit

10:36 <mgorny> are you referring to the multiprocessing deadlock or something else?

10:57 <mattip> mgorny: the multiprocessing deadlock specifically in compileall

13:20 <krono> Hi folks.

13:20 <krono> It seems pypy3.8-v7.3.7-osx64 is built against macOS 10.15.

13:20 <krono> It crashes on my 10.13

13:21 <krono> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/XMlz1J0l/

13:29 <krono> The libintl seems to come from a homebrew install…

13:29 <krono> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/WGj0dZeH/

13:31 <mattip> hmm. It seems we ship that inside the tarball, in an attempt to be "portable"

13:32 <krono> thats a good idea, per se…

13:32 <mattip> krono: if you rename /opt/pypy3/lib/libintl.8.dylib so that libpypy has to find another one, does it crash hard or just work?

13:33 <krono> I "fixed" it for me by symlinking my old libintl from my homebrew

13:33 <krono> mattip: yes, that works, too

13:34 <mattip> ahh. So maybe we should avoid packaging those libraries

13:34 <mattip> s/those/that/

13:34 <krono> well, it works for me, because I _happen_ to have it installed somewhere. It's not standard on macOS

13:37 <krono> (I would have used a homebrew one, but they don't support macOS older than 2years :( )

13:42 <mattip> interesting. libintl provides gettext and friends in the _locale module, which seems to be disabled for macOS in CPython

13:44 <mattip> _locale.gettext is available on CPython on linux

13:45 <LarstiQ> GPL3 making it something you can't depend on?

13:57 <krono> Gettext is "just not" on macOS traditionally, I think

13:57 <krono> Maybe something along the lines like libreadline vs libedit

13:58 <krono> ah: bsd again. Homebrew had this blub regarding gettext

13:59 <krono> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/3BKw3PS5/

14:21 <Atque> krono: Can you upgrade macOS? Two releases ago might have security problems and what not.

14:28 <mattip> I think if CPython doesn't ship gettext, we also should not

16:12 <krono> Atque: no. Because I would lose all of my workflows and whatnot. 10.13 is the last sensible release as of yet for me…

16:26 <krono> mattip: fair enough

16:27 <mattip> krono: thanks for pointing it out

16:27 <krono> np, I help where I can :D

17:08 <Atque> krono: Fair enough. It's unsupported now, so using it is quite risky.

17:14 <krono> i sound old when I say, OSX peaked between 10.6 and 10.8 and declined from 10.10 onwards. but alas.

17:50 <LarstiQ> krono: I'm curious, what workflows would change?

18:03 <krono> i rely on colorful finder sidebar, folder colors that i can spot (cause there is more than a dot)

18:04 <krono> and circumventing gatekeeper gets harder and harder

18:05 <krono> also i would have to buy some software *again* that i already paid for

18:06 <krono> overall, whenever i used 10.14+, it felt more hostile

18:09 <mgorny> krono: sounds like you're discovering the joys of commercial software

18:14 <krono> well, the last 2 years i learned the joys of enterprise software, so my problems feel a bit less severe

18:15 <Guest27> Mimalloc seems to be coming to python-3.11 https://bugs.python.org/issue46657 , pushed per Christian Heimes , a big name of the community

18:17 <Guest27> it means Nogill is in motion, our next PCs (or MACs) may not be 90% idle

18:26 <Guest27> well, reading further, it will be made an alternative option at this point ... 1 year delay to glory