<beneroth>
Seems to me that german state-run "digitalization projects" are even worse than Switzerlands.. here we have corruption and never finished/usable projects. but the creation of new bad pseudo-standards is mostly not happening (they try, everyone ignores it)
<Regenaxer>
sigh
<beneroth>
did you change bin/ssl in pil21? I guess there were updates?
<Regenaxer>
yes, I think it changed meanwhile
<Regenaxer>
14apr21
rob_w has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<Regenaxer>
Nothing critical though
<beneroth>
ok, thanks for the info
razzy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
razzy has joined #picolisp
<razzy>
at least switzerland and germany still looks like democracies
<razzy>
I am testing debugger, i think i can have contribution on PilCon.
<razzy>
I want to debug picolisp core system that is written in picolisp. i have learned that it is not possible now. I want next best thing, i do not know what it is.
<razzy>
Is there good reason to not have possibility to compile picolisp and have self-hosting core?
<Regenaxer>
PicoLisp is not compilable to have the interpreter more powerful and faster
<razzy>
Regenaxer: could you explain more powerfull?
<Regenaxer>
The language can express things not doable if the code is going to re compiled. For examqle FEXPRs, and dynamically bound symbols are not efficient
<Regenaxer>
In Pil, each built-in function interprets its arguments individually
<Regenaxer>
it decides for each arg what to do
<Regenaxer>
A compiler cannot know this
<razzy>
I want self-hosted interpretter|core and "normally" interpretted picolisp. i can avoid using powerfull features in compilig core|interpretter.
<Regenaxer>
What is a "self-hosted" interpreter?
<razzy>
Regenaxer: if I compile C compiler in older C compiler, it is self-hosted
<Regenaxer>
So is PicoLisp. It compiles itself.
<razzy>
Regenaxer: can i run ./pil ./src/* + and debug what picolisp interpretter is doing?
<Regenaxer>
so pil loads lib/llvm.l and yhen loads main.l
<razzy>
omg, I want to debug it sooo much
<Regenaxer>
that is, main.l *is* executed
<razzy>
so in other words, I can interpret picolisp interpretter and in this interpretted interpretter i could interprett my code. yes? and I could debug my code and underlaying picolisp interpretter. uff :]
<Regenaxer>
so that they generate low-level code instead of maniplating cell structures
<Regenaxer>
The low-level code is the interpreter
<Regenaxer>
that interpreter interprets cell structures
<razzy>
now i feel problems, redefining gives me head ache
<Regenaxer>
It redefines by building new symbols in the 'llvm' namespace
<Regenaxer>
(symbols 'llvm 'pico)
<Regenaxer>
For example, 'de' is redefined:
<Regenaxer>
(local) de
<Regenaxer>
(pico~de de Prg ...
<Regenaxer>
i.e. the pico 'de' is used to define 'de' in llvm namespace
<Regenaxer>
So in the followin, executing (de _foo will compile the code for _foi
<Regenaxer>
*_foo
<razzy>
I think i cannot have my-new-pil with my-new-code interpretted in old-pil. it would be convenient to just compile my-new-pil into machine code if i like it
<Regenaxer>
Why is it not possible?
<razzy>
I am looking at Makefile and i do not know how :D. maybe PilCon?
<Regenaxer>
yes, let's talk about it
<razzy>
Thank you.
<Regenaxer>
:)
<Regenaxer>
I'm looking forward to next PilCon
<razzy>
me too :]
<razzy>
for record i also think that speed argument is not obvious.
<Regenaxer>
speed for an interpreter - compiled code is of course faster
<razzy>
speed of the interpretter would depend on programmer, self hosted interpretters tends to be bigger and slower, because it is easier to write them. in my unexperienced opinion :]
<Regenaxer>
I would agree with these statements
mario-goulart has quit [Remote host closed the connection]