beneroth changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | The scalpel of software development | Channel Log: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp | Check www.picolisp.com for more information
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<razzy> hm, i wanted to compile pil21 with disto pil and then compile it again with pil21 again. than i wanted to compare both binaries and check if they are the same. they sould be right? Regenaxer?
<Regenaxer> Yes, but not sure if pil64 can still compile it
<Regenaxer> Is the distro version also pil21?
<Regenaxer> In any case, you can 'diff' the src/*.ll files
<Regenaxer> Should be exactly the same
<razzy> Regenaxer: hmm, i remember that some time ago you needed distro pil to compile pil21. than you change Makefile to recompile next pil21 with old pil21. how does it work now?
<Regenaxer> Now you don't need any running pil to build from the TGZ file, because the *.ll files are already there
<razzy> (I do not uderstand linux make and makefiles.)
<Regenaxer> Only to build new *.ll files you need pil
<Regenaxer> Make compares file modification times
<Regenaxer> if src/*.l files are newer than the src/*.ll files it needs to rebuild them
<razzy> ok, so comparation of files would test nothing. issue solved. Thank you Regenaxer :]
<Regenaxer> :)
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<Regenaxer> Hi aw-! Do you know if there is a way to set a file descriptor to "tty", so that isatty() returns true?
<Regenaxer> I looked at fcntl() and ioctl() but ni success
<Regenaxer> Or anyone else with an idea?
<beneroth> I only know that tty is arcane magic
<beneroth> maybe this helps? I haven't read it yet http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/tty/index.php
<beneroth> (from my link/tab collection, not from research now)
<Regenaxer> Checking ... :)
<Regenaxer> hmm, I think this does not help
<beneroth> sorry :(
<beneroth> so the title (TTY demystified) is a lie? :D
<Regenaxer> I have no problem with TTYs in general
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<Regenaxer> I need a special Unix system call
<Regenaxer> But probably that does noy exist
<Regenaxer> Perhaps I't trying the wrong thing
<Regenaxer> I made a socket interface to the REPL in PilBox
<Regenaxer> I can connect from Termux
<Regenaxer> But the socket is not a TTY (of course)
<Regenaxer> So readline() does not work well
<beneroth> yeah your use case is obvious to me
<beneroth> basically "how to create a tty"
<beneroth> [OT] a year2k event might be upcoming this October 2021 https://twitter.com/ariadneconill/status/1422163289518313474 https://gitlab.com/gpsd/gpsd/-/issues/144
<Regenaxer> True that the socket is not a tty
<Regenaxer> but the other end of the connection is
<Regenaxer> So I want to tell readline() that it should go ahead
<beneroth> you already tried to solve it by flush() ?
<Regenaxer> Flushing is not the problem
<Regenaxer> Mom, Telephone
<beneroth> SSH appears to have a concept of "allocating pseudo TTY"
<Regenaxer> yeah, this is the right direction
<Regenaxer> good point!
<beneroth> piping through tee might be an option..unsure
<aw-> hi Regenaxer beneroth
<beneroth> also found this, but its' not the solution yet.. but something from the moat around it.. https://man7.org/tlpi/code/online/diff/tty/ttyname.c.html
<Regenaxer> I have no shell or so
<beneroth> hey aw-
<Regenaxer> just PilBox
<Regenaxer> Sorry, still on phon
<Regenaxer> e
<Regenaxer> a little later
<aw-> hmmm tty, i always thought tty was a special file you can create with 'mknod'
<Regenaxer> right aw-
<beneroth> "A process may read or modify the configuration of an open TTY device using ioctl(2). The API is described in tty_ioctl(4). "
<beneroth> from the first link I sent ;-)
<Regenaxer> But not in an Android app
<Regenaxer> I did look at ioctl() and related
<beneroth> oh wow you just increased the difficulty :D
<beneroth> you sure Google didn't mess around with tty in Android?
<Regenaxer> The "pseudo" tty is the way
<Regenaxer> I have no tty
<Regenaxer> I have a Java ServerSocket
<beneroth> termios(3) interface
<Regenaxer> which connects to stdio of PicoLisp
<DKordic> Regenaxer: Would it be more clear to integrate <<# VIP>> as <<#! vip-client>>, inspired by <<emacsclient>>?
<Regenaxer> on the *other* end of the connection is a tty in Termux
<Regenaxer> Hi DKordic
<Regenaxer> vip-client looks ugly
<beneroth> Regenaxer, yeah you want to do the same thing that SSH does
<Regenaxer> Let me finish phune!!
<Regenaxer> phone
<beneroth> sorry :D
<beneroth> just ignore us
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<aw-> sorry i can't be more helpful
<DKordic> Call it <<VIP>> then.
<Regenaxer> phone done
<Regenaxer> No, DKordic, I *really* like just VIP
<Regenaxer> why make it verbose
<Regenaxer> like the Unix #!
<Regenaxer> I do *not* intend to be like emacs in any way
<Regenaxer> So the thing to search for is pseudo-tty
<Regenaxer> beneroth: Thanks for the idea!
<beneroth> welcome. seems to be a hard-to-google term. mostly just ssh results
<beneroth> this has some android C code, probably not useful https://askandroidquestions.com/2021/07/19/android-cant-use-even-parity-8e1/
<Regenaxer> I look the man page for pty
<Regenaxer> man 3 openpty
<Regenaxer> looks right
<Regenaxer> forkpty()
<Regenaxer> (%@ "forkpty" 'I '(Master (4 . I)) 0 0 0)
<Regenaxer> Something along that way :)
<Regenaxer> I continue tomorrow
<Regenaxer> Thanks beneroth!
<beneroth> I didn't do much :)
<beneroth> please write an email or wiki article when you solved it :D
<Regenaxer> No, a big step! :)
<Regenaxer> yeah
<Regenaxer> plus a PilCon demo once it works
<beneroth> you want to keep your working style, but go remote? because of the Google Daumenschrauben?
<Regenaxer> No, because in PilBox there is only a rudimentary REPL
<Regenaxer> in a browser TextField
<Regenaxer> I want a full terminal, where Vip runs
<beneroth> ah
<beneroth> that is interesting for me.. and Olaf.. concerning pil IDE going further than VIP...
<Regenaxer> indeed
<beneroth> bbl
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