08:02 <Regenaxer> razzy: Will you join? I'll talk about destructive operations

11:54 <razzy_> PilCon afterthoughts: maybe destructive functions suppose to look ugly so you notice them in text. :)

11:55 <razzy_> long and ugly in original lisps.

12:06 <razzy_> PilCon afterthoughts: Definition of destructive function as suprising is unwise because it is subjective. Only definition I could come up with is: non-destructive is when you can keep read only lock on insides of function.(Everybody else can also read data freely.)

12:37 <Regenaxer> razzy_, well, at least I see that my definition of changing only list structures was also not good

12:38 <Regenaxer> I would say it is destructive it it changes something not explicitly told

12:38 <Regenaxer> (cut 'cnt 'var) explicitly sags to change 'var', so it is not destructive

12:39 <Regenaxer> (flip 'lst) changes cells pointed to somewhere by 'lst', so it is destructive

12:40 <Regenaxer> "surprising" is indeed subjective

12:48 <razzy_> Regenaxer: I fail see how is it obvious that (cut) changes 'var. cut is arbitrary name that could mean anything.

12:51 <Regenaxer> It cuts several values out of the value of 'var', just as (inc 'N) increments the value of 'N'

12:51 <Regenaxer> So 'setq', 'inc' or 'cut' are not destructive, they do only what they are told to do

13:26 <razzy_> Regenaxer: I think I get your point. but I explain myself: If I read whole description of (cut) and examples and test it out I know what (cut) do for my case. But if i read whole description, destructive mark has lesser value to me. If I only know if function is hard-non-destructive(do not mutate anything) and nothing else, I could safely ignore it for some purposses in code. Which is help. (Imagine that

13:27 <razzy_> you do not know nothing about picolisp functions and you only glance a mark of destructivness.)

13:30 <razzy_> maybe we could make a mark on functions that read-only it insides.

13:31 <Regenaxer> Hmm, there is no concept of insides

13:38 <razzy_> inputs is better word?

13:49 <Regenaxer> arguments

13:49 <Regenaxer> yes, so this is close

13:50 <Regenaxer> when I said "told"

19:55 <razzy> somebody was interested in colouring lisp parentheses. there is emacs mod for that. https://github.com/alphapapa/prism.el

20:10 <razzy> possible inspiration.

20:21 <Regenaxer> ok