beneroth changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | The scalpel of software development | Channel Log: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp | Check www.picolisp.com for more information
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<olaf_h> hi all, last time i told completely rubbish here proposing (cut 2 (list (foo returns list))). Completely false!
<olaf_h> (head 2 (foo returns list)) would be correct, i think.
<olaf_h> thanks for pointing to that yesterday in PilCon!
<Regenaxer> Thanks too!
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<Regenaxer> Gender discussion with my daughter. In Germany there are activities to replace "Studenten und Studentinnen" with "Student*innen".
<Regenaxer> I don't like it, and proposed Student*n
<Regenaxer> sounds logical to me
<Regenaxer> Wildcards
<Regenaxer> Is that too foreign for non-shell-users?
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<olaf_h> Regenaxer: i think it's too 'regex :-)
<Regenaxer> hehe :)
<Regenaxer> Student.*n
<Regenaxer> hmm
<Regenaxer> Student[e|inne]n
<olaf_h> people discussing that topic don't care so much about logic, i think
<Regenaxer> Japanese are more clever. There is no gender in the lang at all
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<olaf_h> yes, StudentInnen with upper I is another writing i think (they call it 'binnen-I' ?)
<Regenaxer> also no plural
<Regenaxer> Yes, binnenI
<Regenaxer> but that's worse. Only the female form remains
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<olaf_h> ProfX did'nt made it, that was another try in that topic, i think
<Regenaxer> It is discrimination for males
<Regenaxer> ok, I stay with regex pattern then
<olaf_h> :-)
<Regenaxer> The discussion is because of the Sushi page
<Regenaxer> so not completely off~topic here
<olaf_h> in speaches and writings i like the 'old school' Dear Studentinnen and Studenten (female and male form)
<Regenaxer> yes, that's ok
<olaf_h> on the sushi page it may be *very important* if the customers are caring about that topic
<Regenaxer> Not sure
<olaf_h> so in the end: two sushi pages, one with gender* and one without - no problem in picolisp at all? Another variant of the localization mechanism ?
<Regenaxer> haha, true
<olaf_h> and landing page only has two buttons: "Course for Student*innen" and "Course for Studentinnen and Studenten"
<Regenaxer> First ask Facebook and Google to find out the gender of a user
<olaf_h> and after that they are in the wording they like
<olaf_h> sure - i forgot that, of course :-)
<Regenaxer> On the page there is only Teilnehmer*
<olaf_h> second field with *pointer* (:-) ) to same '*Var and label Teilnehmer*in - then see, which field is filled in .... :-) ... just trying to joke a bit
<Regenaxer> :)
<olaf_h> but of course the facebook/google idea is better: ask customer to login with google/facebook account - then see, if gender is topic in it's stream - then set the '*GenderSternchen Var :-)
<olaf_h> :-) afk
<Regenaxer> Facebook also knows the political orientation
<Regenaxer> So left people prefer gender notation
<mtsd> Hello everyone
<Regenaxer> Hi mtsd!
<mtsd> Hi Regenaxer!
<mtsd> I was able to attend the last few minutes of Pilcon
<mtsd> Just listening in a little
<Regenaxer> yes, I saw you!
<mtsd> Seemed like a good discussion
<Regenaxer> yep
<olaf_h> hi mtsd, nice to see you. yesterday, an hour before PilCon or so, there was a microTimeslot where we saw us, too :-) checking the pilcon jitsi stuff
<olaf_h> just a second or so before closing down the laptop screen
<mtsd> Yes, I wanted to check if things worked. was surprised to see someone else there, haha
<olaf_h> :)
<olaf_h> same to me
<mtsd> I thought you were in some discussion, did not wish to interrupt. But it was nice to see you :)
<Nistur> o7
<Nistur> I miss lisping :'(
<Nistur> I'm hoping to start a project soon that I can use pil for
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<Regenaxer> Coooool!
<Nistur> unfortunately because of how I've printed it, there are several printing defects, most notably the bottom section under... I guess the F11 key on there. This is still a prototype, so I'd hoped to not finish and paint this, but leave it as bare plastic, and just use it for a bit before I make final changes and re-print... but I've slathered it in filler and I'll sand it and prime it tonight
<Nistur> probably paint it matt black, and then put a satin clearcoat over it... purely because those are cans of paint I have on my shelf... I have more, but I think that'll be a 'good' finish
<Nistur> Regenaxer: offer's still open if you want one printing ;)
<Regenaxer> Thanks a lot! :) Not necessary at the moment
<Nistur> I'm hoping to get a resin printer too in a month and a half, and I'll print the keycaps on that :P For now, I'm just going to be using ones stolen from my daily driver keyboard
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<olaf_h> Nistur: looks great, can't wait for a picture with all keys in it :-) color is pretty great. special things -> special color :-)
<Nistur> olaf_h: it was just the plastic I had in the printer at the time. I was planning on making it black when I paint it... but if you say so... maybe I'll pick another random colour from my shelf :P I'll see what I have
<Nistur> I might have a red, but I think the only spray can I have is gloss, which is not really ideal for this, I think
<olaf_h> but how will one use it? my hand only has 4 fingers and a thumb (lucky as i am), but there are 6 keys ....
<olaf_h> anthrazit of course would send out coolness and understatement :-)
<Nistur> the sixth key is just a repeat of the previous keypress
<Nistur> (the fact this is based on Regenaxer's keyboard is why I'm mentioning it in here to begin with)
<olaf_h> which finger will have to decide whether press key or repeatKey ?
<Nistur> well, I mean it's up to you really, but I put the key under the middle finger
<Regenaxer> olaf_h, look here http://www.software-lab.de/PentiVip.3gp how the middle finger repeats
<olaf_h> i see (trying to press the keys on a 15years old leather case of a palm t|x)
<Regenaxer> :)
<olaf_h> ah ok, but tablet surface is flat and mouse shape surface looks curved and hand above mouse might not really do tipping/typing but more kind of grasping/grabbing ..... anyway, practice first: i'm very interested in getting news about this :-)
<Nistur> yeah, my intention was to make an ergonomic version that I could use with my hand in a more natural position
<Regenaxer> btw, in Penti there is also a repeat of the last two and the last three keys
<Regenaxer> with arpeggios
<Nistur> Regenaxer: there's still about 50% of the keymap I haven't done... in part because some of the functions I think might be impossible with USB HID
<Regenaxer> You implement a key-event interface?
<Regenaxer> I use characters
<olaf_h> <mtsd> I thought you were in some discussion, did not wish to interrupt. But it was nice to see you :) <-- was discussion of my 2 egos, one from the pc the other from the mobile nearbei, hopefully 'we' were not using rude words :-)
<Nistur> Ummmmm, it's basically an arduino, which pretends to be a keyboard
<mtsd> olaf_h, no rude words noticed :)
<Regenaxer> yeah, so it can do my Penti can't, but Penti can do other things
<Regenaxer> ie. Penti cannot handle modifier separately
<Nistur> yup
<Nistur> I'm not sure what I can do with some of them, like copy and paste... I could just send Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V, but as I use emacs, that isn't really correct
<Regenaxer> yeah
<Nistur> I think also, because it's emulating a keyboard, I'm stuck with one keymap... so there were some characters I couldn't type
<Nistur> I can't remember which, I'd have to check
<Regenaxer> key combinations?
<Nistur> but say, n-tilde and j-caret might not be on the same keymap
<Regenaxer> I see. In any case, the advantage of such a hardware is that it works with existing computers directly
<Nistur> the keyboard just sends scancodes, which the OS translates based on the selected keymap, whether that's UK QWERTY or US QWERTY or DE QWERTZ etc
<Nistur> yup
<Regenaxer> yes, thought so
<Nistur> I think I can get _most_ of the keys working
<Regenaxer> The whole keyboard issue is a mess
<Nistur> oh, I also haven't added a screen yet. I did start with that on my prototype board, but I decided I just wanted a keyboard working first
<Regenaxer> Too bad that there is not a user-land keyboard possible as is on Android
<Nistur> it wouldn't be too hard to implement in Linux
<Nistur> just, not using USB HID
<Nistur> but that would require software on the host machine
<Regenaxer> I thought there is no way
<Regenaxer> needs a driver I thought
<Nistur> yeah
<Regenaxer> So I'm using my phone as a keyboard for my desktop too
<Regenaxer> using xdotool
<Nistur> it would need a driver, but I did have a look into it previously (albeit for a slightly different project idea) and it doesn't look _too_ difficult
<Regenaxer> I wrote a driver on my notebook
<Regenaxer> evdev.c iirc
<Regenaxer> But it is tedious
<Regenaxer> It was before I wrote the Android app
<Nistur> I think I was looking at uevent
<Nistur> oh, I remember what it was
<Nistur> ... now I just have to remember what the project was called
<Regenaxer> :)
<Nistur> aha
<Nistur> that was it
<Nistur> let me forward my keyboard to a remote X session
<Nistur> I was modifying that to let me send other things... I had a weird computer setup
<Regenaxer> ok, so similar to what I do with xdotool
<Nistur> but that's in userspace, and you can communicate with a USB device from there... so you probably have most of what you need... I think
<Regenaxer> Looks very good
<Regenaxer> I'll check it
<Regenaxer> I also ssh to my desktop, then use a pil script as a frontend to xdotool
<Regenaxer> problem is that it works only in X
<Regenaxer> fauxcon seems to work with a console
<Regenaxer> hmm, but too tedious ;) I stay with what I have atm
<Regenaxer> In X anyway all the time
<Nistur> I'm not in X enough for it to matter to me
<Regenaxer> Too bad Linux doesn't have a user-space mechanism like Android's InputMethodService
<Nistur> the only time I use a GUI right now is on my phone, which is too small for my fat fingers and penti, or my work PC which is Windows
<Regenaxer> Otherwise I would have used Ubuntu Touch
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<Regenaxer> I'm fine on any phone with 6 inch or more
<Regenaxer> Probably even 5 inch
<Regenaxer> Penti on my phone occupies 12 cm
<Nistur> I found it difficult on my phone
<Regenaxer> that's 4.72 inch
<Nistur> but maybe I'm not trying hard enough :P
<Regenaxer> :)
<Nistur> I'll have but I'll hopefully have a physical keyboard soon
<Regenaxer> yeah :)
<Regenaxer> Good thing on a real hardware is the haptic feedback
<Regenaxer> makes life a lot easier
<Nistur> I wonder if I could get something like the teensy, which would work over bluetooth
<Nistur> but that'd be v2.0 :P
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