klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<heat> am I the only one that thinks that a compiler that doesn't target -march=x86-64 (the base, generic one) is stupid as all hell and really broken
<heat> (that doesn't target it by default)
<klys> it depends, if you mean a pet project compiler, then probably you are the only one who thinks that. if you mean a compiler for production, well, there should be someone. intel is good for project production because it's the industry standard.
<heat> huh?
<heat> intel what?
<klys> I see your point though. someone might build gcc for a target that uses extra features beyond amd64. so, it should default to basic amd64.
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<gog> intel bad
<klys> orange pop
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<moon-child> heat: seems reasonable
<moon-child> people who really care about performance will likely -mtune=whatever for their target hardware anyway
<heat> the problem is
<heat> that this actively breaks software builds
<heat> including firmware, kernels, etc
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<heat> apparently some distros that are trying to move into x86-64-v2 are thinking about defaulting their toolchains to that
<heat> which is fucking bonkers
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<heat> you'll stop being able to reliably package anything
<kazinsal> wait, hold on, what did I miss? x86-64-v2?
<heat> yes
<heat> see the latest x86_64-psABI
<heat> they added feature levels
<heat> v2 is like haswell or so
<kazinsal> interesting
<heat> we got a patch by a guy at canonical to actively force -march=x86_64 for edk2
<heat> which makes me scared that canonical and red hat will do this and everything will be fucked and bad
<heat> now, in practice, most things will still run everywhere because haswell is almost ancient at this point
<heat> but the concept of the compiler dangerously defaulting to something and the project not controlling it (because who tf sets -march) is scary
<heat> conceptually, it makes a boatload more sense to default to the generic-est thing possible
<psykose> afaik even bulldozer works with v2
<heat> oh woops im wrong
<heat> v2 is pre-haswell
<heat> v3 is haswell
<heat> v4 is avx512 extravaganza
<gamozo> avx512 <3
<heat> we should avx512 everything
<heat> hell
<heat> avx1024
<heat> double the bits, double the throttle
<zid> avx1024, 200MHz <3
<gamozo> the throttling isn't that bad anymore
<moon-child> i recently picked up an avx512 chip
<moon-child> rather cheap on craigslist. Other parts in the mail
<moon-child> skylake not icelake, but still much better than nothing
<zid> I always use march
<moon-child> eh, I prefer april
<zid> but it's -march=native
<gamozo> It's absolutely beautiful. The bits don't matter much, it's all about the kmasks
<moon-child> and compress/expand. and popcnt. and lzcnt
<moon-child> all the other stuff that was missing before
<zid> popcnt is part of bmi1 though
<zid> err, ABM
<moon-child> zid: vector popcnt
<zid> ah
<heat> but now you can popcnt in 512 bits
<moon-child> and similarly vector lzcnt
<moon-child> missing before
<heat> popcunt them all
<moon-child> (similarly compress/expand was ~available for gpr as pdep/pext; but not for vectors)
<heat> and all of this is why -v4 should be the default
<heat> i want to see avx512 instructions everywhere
<moon-child> oh, and scatter; how could I forget scatter?
<moon-child> i want to see avx512 cpus everywhere
<zid> moon-child: send me one, and a mobo, and ddr4
<heat> ddr5
<heat> you mean ddr5
<zid> and a psu
<zid> and some ddr6
<moon-child> heat: no avx512 cpu supports ddr5
<heat> does the i9-12900k not support avx512?
<moon-child> nop
<heat> did they ditch it? did they itanium again?
<moon-child> they ditched it for client cpus
<zid> does anybody actually use ddr5 on a 12900k
<heat> why not
<zid> ddr5 is hard to find still and so are the boards
<zid> I bet the % isn't very high
<heat> the steam hardware survey doesn't have ram type
<heat> shizzle
<heat> gosh darnit
<zid> sharnit, gosh dizzle
<zid> What's ddr5 perf even like, is it a repeat of the ddr4 situation?
<zid> looks like it isn't? 12900k 'officially' supports 3200 ddr4 and 4800 ddr5
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<kazinsal> yeah, something like that. most workloads are still only a few percent difference between 3200 and 4000 at most
<zid> Good news is that it's super fucking hard to find ddr4 not in dual channel so ddr3 is still relevent if you have quad :p
<moon-child> I thought #channels is a function of motherboard (and how many sticks you put in it), not of the sticks themselves?
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<psykose> yes, but ddr4 quad channel motherboards aren't that common i guess
<psykose> afaik most of the 'workstation' ones are but they cost 78 million dollars
<kazinsal> yeah for quad ddr4 you're pretty much solely looking at like, TRX40 boards
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<geist> gosh i wish heat would stick around
<geist> seems like half the time i check a convo after the fact and have somehting to say, heat has already left
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<geist> was going to point out that x86-64-v2 is somewhat older than haswell. i think -v3 s around haswell
<geist> -v2 is like, pre AVX but has stuff like cmpxchg16b
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<Celelibi> Hey guys, do you have the name of the OS from a single guy who is like, god-driven or something. I'm sure you'll remember who I'm talking about. ^^
<j`ey> Terry Davis
<j`ey> TempleOS
<Celelibi> Thanks.
<zid> was, he dead
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<gog> rest in peace
<zid> a terry davis zombie would be pretty bad
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<gog> yeah nobody wants that
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<friedy> It's kind of crazy how having a mental illness can make you really creative.
<friedy> Maybe Mozart was as crazy as Terry Davis.
<GeDaMo> Maybe they were less likely to fall into fixed patterns
<PapaFrog> I guess I am doubly cursed.. mentally ill and not creative.
<gog> i'm in a up-phase but i'm not very creative rn
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<mrvn> Talking to yourself isn't crazy. Crazy is when you expect a different answer.
<jafarlihi> Can someone please tell me why this string operation leads to segfault?: https://github.com/jafarlihi/fprotect/blob/62cccef2262bb4c8cf5b85e641ac4b8801edfda6/fprotect.c#L84
<bslsk05> ​github.com: fprotect/fprotect.c at 62cccef2262bb4c8cf5b85e641ac4b8801edfda6 · jafarlihi/fprotect · GitHub
<GeDaMo> One of the pointers is invalid or the string doesn't end with 0?
<friedy> You probably forgot the null terminating character.
<jafarlihi> Nah, it is off by one error
<jafarlihi> Just fixed
<friedy> Cool
<mrvn> jafarlihi: can your kmalloc() fail?
<mrvn> jafarlihi: as to your queue question from yesterday: init should be names alloc, the operations on the queue don't check of over or underflow
<jafarlihi> what do you mean "init should be names alloc"?
<jafarlihi> kmalloc won't fail, at least for now
<mrvn> Is there a point to `len = strlen(); kalloc(); strncpy(..., len);`? Is strncpy() faster than strcpy()?
<mrvn> jafarlihi: the function doesn't initialize the queue, it allocates one and then initializes it.
<jafarlihi> No idea
<jafarlihi> Oh, I get it
<jafarlihi> Call it alloc, got it
<mrvn> as to lines 84-86: don't you have strdup()?
<mrvn> wait, never mind. bad idea
<jafarlihi> This is LKM, so I don't think so
<jafarlihi> I ran it on my own machine other day and lost my changes
<jafarlihi> Now sticking to VM
<mrvn> modexit does not free the queue
<jafarlihi> Yeah, I'll add it later
<mrvn> misc_read() calls strlen twice
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* geist yawns
* mrvn has to cook
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<heat> slow day huh
<mrvn> Only 57 minutes and I'm tired. :)
<mrvn> Only 57 minutes in and I'm already tired. :)
<heat> CEST moment
<mrvn> I expected more from Everything.Everywhere.All.At.Once somehow.
<mrvn> Where is the time traveling part for "all at once"?
<zid> Merry midnight.
<heat> big up the BST lads
<j`ey> ayy
<heat> every other timezone is just wrong
<mrvn> The only good timezone is 28/6. 4 more hours of sleep per day, jippey.
<zid> we should all just use UTC
<zid> indians can go to work at 1pm and get home at 10pm or whatever
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<mrvn> Another great thing about 28/6 is that the sun rises a different times every day so everyone gets sun some time of the week.
* kingoffrance purposely misinterprets and makes note that everyone loves 286
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<heat> zid, you mean the USA's west coast?
<heat> kingoffrance, damn right, I do
<heat> 9 am UTC = 1 am PDT
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<heat> timezones are craaaaaaaaazy man
<zid> no I mean india?
<zid> did you do a superman 3 again
<heat> shrek 3
<vdamewood> heat: You're off by 1.
<heat> shrek 4 then
<vdamewood> 9 AM UTC is 2 AM PDT.
<heat> oh yeah right
<heat> makes sense
* \Test_User thinks we should all use 24hr time with UTC, no AM/PM either
<heat> what do you think the world uses
<vdamewood> Naw, we should use both 24-hours and AM/PM. 00:00 AM, .. 11:00 AM, 12:00 PM, .. 23:00 PM
<heat> spoiler: it's not AM/PM
<\Test_User> 12hr AM/PM time with a timezone per person :P
<\Test_User> > it's not AM/PM
<\Test_User> > zid | indians can go to work at 1pm and get home at 10pm or whatever
<\Test_User> > heat | 9 am UTC = 1 am PDT
<heat> i'm just staying yank friendly
<heat> 09:00 UTC = 02:00 PDT
<heat> like it?
<\Test_User> yes better
<heat> ok great
<\Test_User> vdamewood: AM/PM on UTC without having any meaning other than "time is over 11:59" is just pointless
<bslsk05> ​'Anthem of Europe' by EUofficial (00:02:35)
<vdamewood> \Test_User: Yep.
<heat> redundancy is great
<heat> kinda serves as a checksum
<vdamewood> Everyone knows that 9:00 AM o'clock inthe morning is a real time.
<mrvn> UTC still leaves leap seconds
<vdamewood> but 13: am o'clock at night, not so much.
<heat> exactly
<heat> time ECC
<mrvn> Fun fact: The shape of the earth isn't spherical but such that the time dilation from gravity cancels out the time dilation from the rotation everywhere at sea level.
<mrvn> vdamewood: what time is 12am?
<heat> sexy time
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