klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<gog> mew
<zid`> Good news, it's 20C. Bad news is that it's 2am.
<zid`> wtb 14C
<zid`> will pay 6C
<clever> "2022-06-17 21:52:30 bedroom temp: 23.06c(73.51f), kitchen: 25.25c(77.45f), living room: 24.75c(76.55f), outdoor: 16.25c(61.25f), server: 24.81c(76.66f) VCC: over 4.5 volts portb: 00000000"
<clever> its 23c here, and i'm not complaining
<zid`> outdoor 16C? open some windows!
<mjg_> i'm complaining
<zid`> I have my 120mm fan-in-window-jam going to try make it less than 30C in here
<vdamewood> Can't open Windows. No GUI.
<vdamewood> You know that fans don't lower the temperature, rright?
<clever> zid`: the window is open!
<clever> but only one is, so no draft
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<vdamewood> Fans do help in a process that helps extract heat from your body, though.
* vdamewood gives gog a fishy.
<zid`> The fan is for moving the cold air from outside to inside, or the other way around
<zid`> open two windows
<zid`> stick fan in one window
<vdamewood> Though, if the air is still the same temperature, as long you have room for evaporation, the moving air helps sweat cool you off.
<zid`> also an option: bowl of cool water + fan
* gog chomps fishy
<zid`> if your humidity is low
<zid`> the air doesn't weigh a great deal, water is heavy
<zid`> so it ends up like 90% cold water by mass
<mrvn> zid`: windows doesn't run on m68k :)
<clever> dont say that near the amiga fans, they might make a lier out of you!
<mrvn> hot air rises, so suck in cold air at the bottom of the window and push it out at the top.
<mrvn> clever: I've run win95 on my Amiga. It's not something I would call running, more like crawling.
<clever> oh right, and the sidecar thing is just cheating :P
<mrvn> Back then I used bochs. might be better with qemu
<mrvn> vdamewood: the air around your body will also be warmer than room temp so replacing that with room temp air helps too.
<heat> mrvn, bochs crawls everything ;)
<mrvn> My room is currently in that temperature zone where it is too hot in the evening but then it's too cold in the morning.
<mrvn> So you wake up freezing in the middle of the night looking for the blanket.
<clever> "2022-06-17 22:11:32 bedroom temp: 22.88c(73.18f), kitchen: 25.19c(77.34f), living room: 24.75c(76.55f), outdoor: 16.19c(61.14f), server: 24.75c(76.55f) VCC: over 4.5 volts portb: 00000000"
<clever> dropped about 0.2 degrees, and i can feel it
<geist> hmm, i wonder if you can just get xtensa XL7 docs anywhere
<geist> like just an arch manual
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<gog> never forget const
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<vdamewood> const memory never forgets.
<zid`> Well, the birds outside seem very happy that it's sunrise at
<zid`> *checks watch*
<zid`> 3am
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<heat> its what
<zid`> you heard me
<heat> this is creepypasta material
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<heat> did the tories cancel nights
<heat> "in order for you cunts to work more, no one sleeps from now on"
<zid`> they'd do it if they could
<zid`> but they'd try and it'd get darker
<geist> yay got my new rk3566 board
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<geist> it's a capable little linux machine though only 2GB ram
<geist> need to figure out its bootloader situatoin
<geist> it has uboot on it i guess, but by default everythign is totally silent, or at least i think i. need to solder on a uart header to see
<zid`> geist living the osdever life
<zid`> "I got a new computer, I wonder how its bootloader works"
<geist> hells yeah
<geist> i dont need a new firewall (yet) or if i did i'd want it to be a bit more standard
<geist> but would be nice to have an excuse to hack on a rockchip
<kazinsal> totes
<kazinsal> oof. sapphire rapids xeons delayed almost a year. again.
<kazinsal> original release window was 4Q21, then 2H22, now 2Q23
<zid`> sounds like post-2012 intel
<zid`> paper release only, no chips
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<gamozo> Morn
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<gog> mew
<zid`> gog: GeDaMo says you're made up
<gog> no i'm not going out today so i'm not gonna bother with makeup
<zid`> Same
<zid`> I've not done my mascara in years
<gog> you should
<gog> everybody looks better with exaggerated eyelashes
<zid`> my eyelashes are pretty great to begin with
<zid`> I could sell them
<zid`> also eyelashes are weird as hell as a concept
<zid`> There's a draft excluder along the sensitive membrane that protects your eye, and nobody ever really notices, like it isn't super weird looking
<kingoffrance> then the eyelashes function as a decoy :D
<kingoffrance> very useful
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<gog> gotta keep the drafts out of your eye
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<zid`> fuck yes, it's suddenly cold and raining
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<zid`> please deposit your envy at the door it will be collected by my servants later
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<sbalmos> after a week of 95F/110F+ heat index and either torrential rain or haze that did nothing to the heat, it's 62F this morning and sunny clear. time to go flying.
<gog> the other day it was like 15° so i wore a summer outfit and then while i was at work the temperature dropped down to 5°
<gog> and i had biked to work lol
<zid`> That's why you should a) never go outside and b) dress like an eskimo
<gog> well i have to get to work somehow
<zid`> if it's too hot you can always tear off your clothes like a mad lady and start screaming about the ants eating your stomach
<zid`> just so they don't think you're weird for stripping in the street ofc
<mrvn> sbalmos: you mean after a half fortnight?
<sbalmos> sure
<sbalmos> half-sprint, half-work-unit, take your pick. ;)
<zid`> They will say "Oh that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, ants sure are annoying", and then go about their day
<zid`> but with some kind of icelandic accent, I assume
<sbalmos> zid`: better than screaming about the worms eating your stomach? though I guess screaming "I've got worms!" wouldn't quite work
<zid`> Exactly, that just leads to other suspicions
<zid`> it has to be something clean you can just stop the rumors dead with
<zid`> with no room for other interpretations
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<Mutabah> Huzzah, EHCI driver working enough to enumerate devices
<mrvn> gog: if I'm lazy and have to go to work I roll over in bed and turn on the laptop.
<gog> nice
<zid`> mice.
<gog> my boss doesn't want us to work from home and tbh i really don't want to either
<gog> at least not at the moment
<gog> i've got a big desk and three monitors there
<gog> makes it easiesr to deal with the hundreds of phone calls i answer
<sbalmos> I sometimes miss the (very low) white noise of others outside the office door
<j`ey> Mutabah: gg
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<mrvn> Anyone have some simple code to turn a series of framebuffers into a video?
<GeDaMo> Maybe ffmpeg?
<mrvn> obviously, is there any other?
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<geist> zid`: heh it's been cold and rainign here for like 9 monutes
<geist> months
<bauen1> geist: can i trade you some german 32°C+ weather for that ?
<geist> it's unusually cold and wet this june here. should have already warmed up
<geist> though we usually dont get much into the 30s here
<zid`> bauen1: you were supposed to leave your envy for my servants to collect
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<gog> mew
* moon-child pets god
<zid`> I'm out here getting pog
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<gog> poggers
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<zid`> moon-child pets gog, I get pog.
<heat_> pogchamp
* moon-child feeling very depressed, considering booze and/or ice cream
<moon-child> but it's still early afternoon, i should try to do something...
<geist> usually taking a walk helps when i'm feeling down
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<zid`> I recommend made in abyss, can't feel sad if you're having a panic attack
<geist> oh geez. also the second season is landing this year i think
<zid`> couple of weeks, infact
<zid`> wait, maybe I'm swapping that for something else
<zid`> yea, 6th next month
<zid`> also yofukashi no uta, the magoo of which I randomly found and read last week and really liked, so I get 2 adaptations at once for things I like
<zid`> Whether they can get the atmosphere right is gunna make or break that one though
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<mjg_> uh... the title made me thin it's a sci-fi a'la even horizon
<mjg_> event
<zid`> It's a cute series about small children living happy lives
<mjg_> i recommend Grave of the Fireflies
<mjg_> it's a cute story about 2 little siblings
<mjg_> don't be mislead by the title!
<zid`> Yes it is a very good movie everybody should watch precisely once
<zid`> Then attach their best seal to, and put under guard
<mjg_> i hear "Come and See" (not an anime) is a hearth-warming coming of age story
<mjg_> it is on my to-watch list
<zid`> have you seen When the wind blows
<mjg_> no
<mjg_> ok, read the synopsis, nice to have a happy retirement story
<zid`> I just wish people wouldn't be rude about it and call it a disaster of a movie
<zid`> I thought it was very good
<heat> how does one easily read a whole line from stdin without setting an arbitrary limit?
<heat> in C
<\Test_User> getline
<\Test_User> will be null-terminated though
<zid`> read() might just fail early regardless, so what is the real question imo
<zid`> like, nothing stops posix giving you 4096 characters then another 84 characters
<zid`> nothing in posix stops it*
<kazinsal> fread() in chunks until you find a newline then ungetc any unwanted bits back into the stream
<zid`> or read() a byte at a time and don't, slower but works
<heat> these are all horrific solutions
<zid`> why don't you ask the real question
<zid`> acting like we've never seen an xy before
<heat> getline looks useful, GNU extension?
<kazinsal> if you didn't want horrors you wouldn't be doing whatever it is you're doing in c stdio
<heat> *that* is the question lol
<zid`> it's not even anything to do with cstdio tbh, it's just not something posix lets you do
<zid`> so *why* are you trying to work around posix? what problem do you have?
<\Test_User> it's a part of stdin.h on my system, but that's about all I know about where it comes from
<kazinsal> getline was a gnu extension until posix2008 iirc
<heat> i just want a way to grab an arbitrarily long line from stdin because I've seen this problem a lot of times when writing C code
<heat> and a way that doesn't require me to reinvent the wheel/loop realloc calls + fgets
<psykose> getline is posix, seems fine
<zid`> rephrase it as a different problem imo, do it as a slice algo or something
<zid`> or use someone else's code
<zid`> getopt for example
<kazinsal> so yeah the answer is "getline on new posix, or reimplement getline on old posix/iso c"
<heat> psykose, oh right, the comment in the header is outdated
<heat> " This function is not part of POSIX"
<kazinsal> I won't look at the glibc implementation of getline because I don't want my eyeballs to be permanently tainted
<kazinsal> but I would bet it's just a fgets/realloc loop
<heat> you wish pal
<heat> i just got mine tainted
<heat> you can't use fgets because it uses getdelim as the backend
<zid`> fgets is annoying in that it returns the \n
<heat> and the logic there is... fucking hell
<heat> oh yeah that too
<zid`> so I generally just write a quick 'grab a string'
<kazinsal> hmm, yeah, reading the freebsd one it's slower but more careful
<kazinsal> I don't hate it
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<heat> i don't particularly dislike the musl one compared to glibc
<heat> and that tells you everything you need to know about glibc lol
<heat> but yeah, this fucking sucks ig
<heat> i had a programming puzzle I wanted to write in C for the challenge and the first thing that pissed me off was stdio
<heat> somehow, still better than iostreams
<zid`> yea that's honestly the worst part of doing advent of code etc in C
<zid`> you have to parse all the data in first
<heat> i still dunno how to parse stdio or strings in C++
<\Test_User> if stdio was written in C++ then no doubt it'd be worse than iostreams :P
<heat> the last time I did my coding interview I said screw it and used sscanf in C++
<heat> I passed, which means big tech agrees with me
<gog> iostreams is bad
<zid`> iostreams is incredibly bad
<zid`> It's so bad that exceptions would actually make its interface better
<gog> printf/scanf is better
<heat> it has exceptions btw
<zid`> std::cin.ignore(std::numeric_limits<std::streamsize>::max(), '\n');
<zid`> it also has this, thankfully
<heat> the one thing I really like iostreams for: "std::string s; std::cin >> s;"
<kazinsal> yeah I haven't intentionally written any code that uses iostream in a very *very* long time
<zid`> is it even possible to use cin
<zid`> I've genuinely never seen anybody pull it off
<heat> also overriding operator<< and >> for iostream and custom objects is pretty cool
<gog> no
<gog> it's not
<gog> i hate that
<heat> yes it is
<\Test_User> s/cool/terrible/
<zid`> That has massive implications to its usefulness though
<zid`> << can't give errors, mainly
<heat> it can throw
<heat> this is C++ homie
<zid`> it doesn't though
<zid`> it just sets an error flag
<zid`> and goes into an infinite loop because nobody actually bothers to check for errors with cin because it's impossible
<gog> no no no no don't override arithmetic operators to do non arithmetic things
<\Test_User> ^
<zid`> and that loop ends up reading the final character twice even if you try
<heat> gog, that's not the point....
<heat> the point is that you can indeed add custom printing
<\Test_User> zid`: I actually have used it sucessfully one, hated it but it has been done
<heat> you can also do that with glibc, but it's horrible and bad at everything
<\Test_User> *once
<zid`> And they had to add an entire keyword to even allow that :P
<heat> <format> is better but printing only
<heat> which one?
<zid`> friend
<heat> no?
<zid`> "yes we know our OO is broken as fuck, here's a patch to make it even more broken, but will let you use iostream to custom print"
<gog> hey zid wanna be my friend
<heat> you don't need friend to do that
<zid`> gog: Do I get a stipend?
<gog> yyyyy-no
<zid`> maybe we can just be lovers then, rather than friends
<zid`> loverzoned.
<psykose> inherit me
<heat> if you can replace gog in gsoc you can get a stipend
<heat> downside: uefi
<gog> yes
<heat> it's a tradeoff
<zid`> tempting, but that downside is pretty harsh
<gog> it's $6000 tho
<zid`> I thought you worked at cloudonfire anyway, why are you pimping gsoc?
<heat> do you like: GUIDs and arcane obtuse custom build systems
<gog> ngl i actually like GUIDs
<heat> zid`, i do both homie
<gog> they're globally unique and i appreciate that about them
<heat> pimpin aint easy but i still do two pimpins at once
<zid`> do you get a cut of the stipend
<heat> no