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<d_bot>
<mbacarella> can someone steelman (give me a good faith argument in favor of) Google's decision to incept Carbon instead of backing Rust
<companion_cube>
well, they make a good case for it
<companion_cube>
carbon is designed to interoperate fully with C++, with no friction
<companion_cube>
rust… doesn't
<d_bot>
<mbacarella> I'm not a PL phd but my vibe is that if you build support to natively consume C++ classes and templates in your next gen language you kinda erase a lot of the wins of being next gen
<d_bot>
<mbacarella> sounds like to use C++ from Rust you need a brokering layer to convert into its more safe world and that's tedious and may hold back adoption of Rust in existing projects. is that right?
<d_bot>
<mbacarella> I don't know what the rest of you have planned for your Friday night but I'm planning to drink some hard seltzer and debate next gen languages
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<d_bot>
<Anurag> I don’t think they are trying to be next gen? Their docs do mention that if one can use Rust, zig etc they should. carbon seems first and foremost for their internal usage pattern.
<d_bot>
<Anurag> That said companies do have a habit to latch on to things “because it’s from google” so I wouldn’t be surprised if Carbon gets more use just because it originated at Google.
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<companion_cube>
@mbacarella yeah, rust and C++ have pretty different ideas of the world
<companion_cube>
e.g. what classes are, move semantics, this kind of stuff
<companion_cube>
so carbon won't be as safe or clean as rust; but imho they might still be better than C++ by adopting better _defaults_
<companion_cube>
(C++ has a lot of wrong defaults)
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<d_bot>
<jumpnbrownweasel> i agree on the defaults being wrong, but if they change the defaults won't they lose the compatibility they're after?
<companion_cube>
I don't think so, since you can stil call from one to the other
<companion_cube>
it just means that the automatic translation tools have to know about the defaults
<companion_cube>
e.g. if they decided that move was the default, and copy was explicit, `int a{1}; auto b=a` would become an explicit copy when translated to carbon
<companion_cube>
but new carbon code could use move more naturally
<companion_cube>
they clearly do that already with `let`/`var` instead of having mutability be the default
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<d_bot>
<jumpnbrownweasel> i was thinking about the difference between move and copy for assignment. Rust changed the default to move, which worked out very well. I wonder what Carbon does.
<d_bot>
<Monoid> this is the code using ppx_gen_rec, it adds a `[%%gen` to the top. but in ppx_gen_rec's code, it says it should be `module%gen rec Syntax : sig`
<d_bot>
<mbacarella> those are equivalent forms
<d_bot>
<Monoid> thank you. didn't expect such a fast answer
<d_bot>
<Monoid> thank you. guess there's always macro for static languages
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<trev>
hey how do you make a variant contain a list of anonymous (?) records? i.e `Foo of { bar: string } list`
<d_bot>
<NULL> I don't tjink you can
<d_bot>
<NULL> think*
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<trev>
darn. ok...i will just move the record to its own type then
<trev>
was trying to avoid a non-unique field label
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<williewillus>
SML has that (anonymous structural records everywhere) but not ocaml iirc
<companion_cube>
How are the perfs on that?
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<williewillus>
for what?
<companion_cube>
How are these records represented at runtime and what are costs for field access
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<John_Ivan>
hi. I installed "opam" and called "opam init" in a random directory. I then called "opam install piaf" for a http client.
<John_Ivan>
I then went ahead and made a file called "main.ml" in that directory. I called "open Piaf". it mentions Piaf is unbound. is there something else that needs to be done to have dependencies ready?
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<williewillus>
John_Ivan: how are you building main.ml?
<John_Ivan>
williewillus, I'm not. just calling "ocaml main.ml"
<John_Ivan>
> Module unbound.
<John_Ivan>
for Piaf
<williewillus>
ok yeah if you don't tell ocaml where dependencies are it can't find them. It's like in C if you don't pass -I include flags to the compiler it won't know where they are
<williewillus>
usually people use a build system like Dune to help with this
<John_Ivan>
williewillus, isn't ocaml available as an interpreted language though?
<John_Ivan>
"as well"
<williewillus>
you still need to tell it where the dependencies are
<williewillus>
`ocaml` the program doesn't know Piaf lives in ~/.opam/.... whatever subfolder it is
<John_Ivan>
williewillus, I... see. What's the formal approach to solving this?
<williewillus>
nowadays people use a build system that handles this for them, the most popular of which today is Dune