03:36 <whitequark[cis]> so i have this idea

03:36 <whitequark[cis]> put glasgow entirely into the browser

03:36 <whitequark[cis]> all the shebang: python, yosys, nextpnr, icepack, libusb

05:23 <tpw_rules> if only that didn't lock you to chrome

05:23 <whitequark[cis]> well, we could make a small native shim that lets the browser talk to the device, specifically for Firefox

05:23 <Darius> no webusb for firefox?

05:24 <whitequark[cis]> or just a Firefox extension maybe

05:24 <Darius> https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/#webusb

05:27 <tpw_rules> also it doesn't really give you an environment where you could have glasgow interact with anything else on the pc. would be nice for easily creating GUIs though

11:50 <nemanjan00[m]> FX2 uses serial?

11:50 <whitequark[cis]> no

11:50 <whitequark[cis]> the USB protocol is custom

11:51 <nemanjan00[m]> Oh, you want to use webusb, not webserial?

11:52 <whitequark[cis]> yes

11:52 <nemanjan00[m]> What do you see as benefits of using it in browser?

11:55 <whitequark[cis]> ease of installation

11:55 <whitequark[cis]> you plug the glasgow in and off you go

12:14 <puck> what if the glasgow could serve the web ui,

12:15 <whitequark[cis]> too resource-constrained

13:46 <nemanjan00[m]> Yeah, but for example for uart, you lose a lot of features

14:07 <whitequark[cis]> sure, but if your alternative is to not be able to use it at all because it's too annoying to install, that seems like a good tradeoff

14:54 <vegard_e[m]> I think it could make a lot of sense for certain uses, e.g. if you want to do something quick on a different computer from where you've got all your tools set up

14:58 <vegard_e[m]> at work I've got a couple of active USB extension cords on a shelf for when I need to poke at some device that's on a coworker's desk that is too much hassle to move over to my desk

14:59 <vegard_e[m]> if I could just bring my test equipment over and plug it into the coworker's computer and bring up a webpage, it'd simplify stuff

15:54 <nemanjan00[m]> rpi + glasgow + ssh

15:55 <whitequark[cis]> rpi :/

15:55 <whitequark[cis]> it's so slow

15:55 <whitequark[cis]> takes forever to build anything

15:56 <galibert[m]> Crossbuild ftw

15:57 <whitequark[cis]> crossbuild?

15:57 <whitequark[cis]> I'm talking about glasgow bitstreams

15:57 <galibert[m]> oh

15:57 <galibert[m]> yeah, not going to work there

15:58 <whitequark[cis]> amaranth does have support for remote builds, but it's not really enabled in glasgow

16:03 <nemanjan00[m]> odoo? intel nuc? lenovo thinkcenter? zimaboard?

16:04 <whitequark[cis]> none of these words are in the bible

16:04 <galibert[m]> which variant of the bible? ;-)

16:05 <whitequark[cis]> I just mean that it's not clear how this set of words relates to the discussion

16:09 <whitequark[cis]> oh, udoo? all those are single board computers?

16:09 <whitequark[cis]> yeah, there are non-rpi options, but it's another thing you have to set up, maintain, back up, synchronize your environment with...

16:10 <vegard_e[m]> at that point I'd rather just get a work laptop 🙂

16:10 <whitequark[cis]> yeahhh

19:31 <jwise0[m]> I guess the question with glasgow-web is whether there would be interesting clients that would also live in the browser

19:32 <whitequark[cis]> clients?

19:41 <tpw_rules> that's my point. what would the browser have other than the repl?

19:43 <whitequark[cis]> the REPL is a lot!

19:43 <whitequark[cis]> it lets you, well, explore interfaces

20:07 <esden[m]> If it gives you a better buspirate experience that will be already extremely useful if you ask me.

20:09 <esden[m]> Also while you are already in the browser, there is potential to add visualization UI stuff right in there. Portable on all platforms. (mind you I am not a fan of electron-ification of everything but I know how practical it is...)

20:09 <whitequark[cis]> I don't expect to add electron-style UI outside of the browser

20:09 <whitequark[cis]> (and we don't have the resources to support multiple UI styles)

20:13 <esden[m]> I mean, if the ui already runs in the browser, "someone"™️ could wrap it up in electron. Definitely not suggesting to support multiple ui.

20:14 <whitequark[cis]> if we support one ui and it's only in the browser, this will be to exclusion of any other option

20:14 <whitequark[cis]> that seems suboptimal

20:14 <whitequark[cis]> it basically means that electron has to become a first class target, supported not by "someone" but by us

20:14 <whitequark[cis]> since it's our only gui

20:14 <whitequark[cis]> and then people who have issues with electron will come request electron-specific features, etc

20:15 <esden[m]> Yeah fair point. UI situation is generally not ideal. 😦

20:22 <jwise0[m]> as someone currently writing an Electron Thing, I am not a big fan, but I think I like it better than worrying about how to distribute a PyQt thing across three platforms

20:23 <whitequark[cis]> pyqt does have wheels

20:23 <esden[m]> ~~I have to say I enjoy egui~~

20:24 <whitequark[cis]> given a choice between electron and anaconda, I would probably consider electron

20:24 <jwise0[m]> there's PyInstaller to pack it up, I think. but it scared me, generally

20:24 <whitequark[cis]> (the other option is neither. I hate conda with a passion and will never use it)

20:25 <whitequark[cis]> (well, use it again, I've had enough conda shit for several lifetimes)

20:25 <whitequark[cis]> esden: egui has basically no accessibility, right?

20:25 <jwise0[m]> the electron situation is pretty bad. mostly my impression of documentation in the electron / react / whatever world is 'no, it does not exist'

20:26 <esden[m]> I think they started supporting "the accessability crate" ... but I would have to check

20:27 <whitequark[cis]> ohh I see, accesskit

20:28 <esden[m]> yep that is it, blanked on the name.

20:29 <esden[m]> https://github.com/emilk/egui/issues/167 it was merged, but more work is needed, but it seems to be a start