04:24 <whitequark[cis]> galibert: it was just a test piece really, which I later realized looks fucking incredible

11:50 <ar> here's a cursed idea: klipper (the 3d printer sw) applet.

12:03 <Wanda[cis]> hm.

12:03 <Wanda[cis]> what would that entail exactly?

12:18 <ar> Wanda[cis]: probably a very simple applet that would allow to arbitrarily, at runtime, change in/out state of pins, and set/read their values. and probably speak klipper "linux process mcu" protocol

12:18 <Wanda[cis]> so, just gpio on a stick?

12:18 <ar> basically, yes

12:19 <Wanda[cis]> right

12:19 <Wanda[cis]> so a gpio applet is something that we should have anyway

12:20 <Wanda[cis]> hm.

12:20 <galibert[m]> iirc, Catherine said there's one and it sucks because it's the oldest one, or something like that

12:20 <Wanda[cis]> let's see, a plain GPIO applet (meant for use with REPL mostly), and then a klipper protocol server or whatever as another applet layered on top of it?

12:21 <ar> alternatively, if glasgow python code is usable as a library, change klipper so that it would be able to talk to glasgow directly

12:22 <ar> (klippy, the part that runs on your computer, is written in python)

12:22 <Wanda[cis]> galibert[m]: what?

12:22 <Wanda[cis]> there's no GPIO applet

12:22 <Wanda[cis]> there's been a discussion about it a while ago

12:22 <galibert[m]> I misremember then, sorry

12:23 <whitequark[cis]> klippy protocol is a lot more complicated than just gpio

12:23 <whitequark[cis]> the idea is cool but glasgow has too few pins to be all that useful for cnc; but it still could be useful

12:27 <galibert[m]> Need moar pins :-)

12:28 <ar> whitequark[cis]: driving a full printer from a single glasgow would be unrealistic, sure, but I have at least one printer setup where I would benefit from having a few more gpio around

12:29 <whitequark[cis]> oh yes 100%

12:29 <whitequark[cis]> I do agree that having a klipper applet would be super useful

12:29 <galibert[m]> <cursed>Use a T48 rom reader</cursed>

12:29 <whitequark[cis]> I know @VioletEternity would probably make use of it

12:30 <ar> especially having a few gpio available without digging into undersides of a printer

12:32 <ar> whitequark[cis]: offtopic, 3d printer adjecent: VioletEternity relatively recently modified a printer so that it has two hotends, right? she might enjoy taking a look at what people from some company in argentina made for a kodak-branded printer: https://cloud.is-a.cat/s/EWo3xwsRDpbY3pg

12:33 <K900> This is so cursed

12:33 <K900> Do they have schematics

12:34 <ar> K900: didn't see anything on their website (https://exolicious.com/) but didn't look too closely

12:38 <ar> (also, i'm klipperifying that printer; their stock software was annoying and pushing user to a cloud subscription for using basic features like live print preview)

12:51 <whitequark[cis]> <ar> "Catherine: offtopic, 3d printer..." <- nope, she specifically avoided doing that

12:52 <whitequark[cis]> what she has done is uhhhh

12:52 <ar> oh

12:53 <whitequark[cis]> a single part that slaps on top of a stock ender 5 s1 extruder

12:53 <whitequark[cis]> and lets you feed n filaments, for n that is "as high as much mass you are willing to add to the printer"

12:53 <K900> How do you switch which input you're using?

12:53 <K900> Or is it just "whatever is pushed in"?

12:54 <whitequark[cis]> correct. it would have to be coupled with either that many extrusion motors (it's like... both direct drive AND bowden, with the direct drive extruder working in tandem with the bowden one for the right filament, you can set this up in klipper apparently)

12:54 <whitequark[cis]> or a turret toolchanger, which is something she wants to build now

12:56 <whitequark[cis]> she says it is "straightforward" to build a rotary toolchanger for an arbitrarily high amount of filaments.

12:56 <whitequark[cis]> "straightforward" god damn it

12:56 <whitequark[cis]> s///

12:57 <K900> I have seen some pretty nice designs out there that should be pretty easy to fit on a different printer

12:57 <whitequark[cis]> for what?

12:57 <K900> For a tool changer

12:58 <whitequark[cis]> huh

12:58 <whitequark[cis]> oh, sorry, by "tool changer" she means something more specific than what you'd normally find on like a CNC mill

12:59 <whitequark[cis]> it's a barrel of filaments that can be rotated to select one, to avoid having one extruder motor per filament

13:00 <K900> Yeah the designs I've seen were still one motor per filament, but you could fit them on an existing hotend without a thing like that

13:00 <galibert[m]> Sounds difficult to get a initial grip on the filament after rotation if there's only one motor after the rotating head and none before

13:00 <whitequark[cis]> so each filament corresponds to a G-code tool, as in T0, T1, hence "tool changer"

13:00 <K900> But yeah, the catching part will be the hardest probably

13:01 <whitequark[cis]> catching?

13:01 <whitequark[cis]> with a rotary tool changer there wouldn't be anything on the hot end

13:01 <ar> K900: something like the prusa multifilament thing could avoid having a separate motor per filament

13:02 <whitequark[cis]> the design i sent a picture of above is apparently working well, but it has the downside that (a) it's added mass, and (b) it interferes with the ender 5 s1 enclosure

13:02 <whitequark[cis]> and because she's been doing high temp printing recently (PA66, PC) an enclosure is absolutely required

13:06 <K900> <whitequark[cis]> "catching?" <- Getting the extrusion motor to actually catch the filament after the swap

13:06 <K900> So it can keep extruding

13:11 <K900> <ar> "K900 ⚡️: something like the..." <- And yeah it does but it also costs as much as an entire printer

13:11 <ar> K900: there are DIY versions of that

13:11 <ar> even slightly improved, iirc

13:11 <K900> I haven't seen one that actually works

13:11 <K900> I mean works well

13:12 <K900> I've seen some that mostly kinda work but the Prusa thing is supposedly basically 100% consistent

13:12 <K900> Which is kind of insane given how cursed it is

23:32 <jwise0[m]> yeah, Bambu productized this (pre-extruder filament swap) in the A1. a toolchanger would be nice, I think IDEX is not the way.

23:38 <jwise0[m]> so I think the thing that I want is, roughly, a swappable 'front half' of the Bambu X1 toolhead. the X1 has a removable extruder assembly that the hot end screws to; it is driven by an extruder motor in the toolhead 'back half'. so you would swap the extruder, hot end, nozzle, heater, and the filament would stay attached to all of this, and you woudl basically only have a mechanical quick disconnect for that whole assembly. that way

23:38 <jwise0[m]> you would keep the mass down on the toolhead.

23:38 <jwise0[m]> you would have to do nozzle alignment calibration, but at least with the Bambu's hardware, this wouldn't be too bad. as long as your indexing on the quick disconnect is repeatable, you can do Z-calibration per-nozzle with the nose bomk sensor, and you can do hand-eye calibration with the structured light ('micro lidar') sensor

23:42 <jwise0[m]> it woudl be a small evolution on the X1 design, and it woudl make multi-material printing so much faster and less wasteful (and also woudl enable multi-material printing with materials that current filament changers cannot reliably handle, like TPU)